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  1. #341
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i feel this too.

    it's less about back-me-up-on-this and more about acknowledge that i had a valuable something to contribute and that you want to hear it, even if you disagree with it.

    otherwise sometimes it becomes hard to see a reason to keep contributing.



    or Si. all these Fe/Fi threads are clusterfucks. but i'm learning a lot, so...

    who says a clusterfuck always has to be bad? sometimes painful and chaotic and confusing. but also fun and revealing
    Yeah, I agree that all the Fe/Fi threads involve some conflict. I think usually though as long as it doesn't turn into name calling, it gets more untangled as it gets talked through and all parties come away with something useful.

    Okay, useful piece of information - so Fi users would prefer for us to take the time to say, "Thanks for taking the time to write that and explain. I know it's taxing for you to do so" and then go on with where the disagreement part is? When the discussion stretches out into many pages though, doesn't it start seeming kind of fake to keep saying that? I did say that quite a bit towards the beginning and kind of left off after awhile. Maybe that was a mistake, or maybe even back at the start there would have been a better way to have phrased it. Can you give an example in Fi language of what would be helpful to hear?

  2. #342
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    who says a clusterfuck always has to be bad? sometimes painful and chaotic and confusing. but also fun and revealing
    I just had a vision of a box of candy. How about if we create a new type of candy called: Clusterfucks?

  3. #343
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    This thread doesn't seem clusterfucky to me really. Conflict isn't always negative. So far it has been pretty honest, productive (at times) conflict.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #344
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Wanna borrow my Ni? I knew that's where things were headed from the moment the thread was posted.
    But think of the progress ... 300 posts til it happened. That's got to be a record, no?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #345
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i feel this too.

    it's less about back-me-up-on-this and more about acknowledge that i had a valuable something to contribute and that you want to hear it, even if you disagree with it.

    otherwise sometimes it becomes hard to see a reason to keep contributing.
    I thought the reason to keep contributing is to get to the truth. It did not occur to me that the reason to continue would be because it feels good to you, and if it doesn't feel good anymore, you quit. Because you do get reinforcement even if someone doesn't outright say "Thank you for your valuable contribution which I very much want to hear, please continue." You get response. But you're saying response is not enough, you need personal validation.

    This is like PB saying she feels like Fidelia is frustrated with her but accuses Fidelia of hiding things because F does not say in words that she is frustrated or having negativity in any form. I don't understand why it's dishonest or it's seen to be hiding things when you (I guess I mean "you infps") say yourself that you know it. If you know it, then obviously it's being expressed, isn't it? If you know it, it's not being hidden.

  6. #346
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Maybe it's akin to the need to hear "I love you" expressed, even if the knowledge is there that someone loves you.

    I think I understand what skylights is getting at, but I'm not totally sure what it would look like in practical terms.

  7. #347
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This thread doesn't seem clusterfucky to me really.
    Really? 'Cause the discussion seems to have degraded to "how nicer to talk to PeaceBaby so that we can get past this bitchfest."
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  8. #348
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ thanks for your productive contribution Orangey. Any more words of wisdom you can impart?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #349
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Pointless proposition, but worth an attempt:

    Lets move on

  10. #350
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Yeah, I agree that all the Fe/Fi threads involve some conflict. I think usually though as long as it doesn't turn into name calling, it gets more untangled as it gets talked through and all parties come away with something useful.

    Okay, useful piece of information - so Fi users would prefer for us to take the time to say, "Thanks for taking the time to write that and explain. I know it's taxing for you to do so" and then go on with where the disagreement part is? When the discussion stretches out into many pages though, doesn't it start seeming kind of fake to keep saying that? I did say that quite a bit towards the beginning and kind of left off after awhile. Maybe that was a mistake, or maybe even back at the start there would have been a better way to have phrased it. Can you give an example in Fi language of what would be helpful to hear?
    It doesn't seem necessary to me and that's one place where I don't feel like the Fi voices in this thread are universal Fi voices. For example, I get the impression that other Fi users in here believe that the only way to be fully honest is by total emotional disclosure. I have never felt like my Fi "feeling tones" need to be explained or shown to everyone to be valid.

    Something I read tonight while surfing around on Wikipedia struck me as applicable to this thread:

    Jung theorized that the dominant function acts alone in its preferred world: exterior for the extraverts, and interior for the introverts. The remaining three functions, he suggested, operate together in the opposite world. If the dominant cognitive function is introverted, the other functions are extraverted, and vice versa. The MBTI Manual summarizes references in Jung's work to the balance in psychological type as follows: "There are several references in Jung's writing to the three remaining functions having an opposite attitudinal character. For example, in writing about introverts with thinking dominant...Jung commented that the counterbalancing functions have an extraverted character."
    This makes complete sense to me and clears up a lot of my confusion about my type. My interior space is decorated entirely with Fi. The way I engage with the outside world is Ne/Si/Te. I actually feel fairly protective of my insides- my values, my gut reactions to things, my "compass"- and I process that data to share it with the outside world using my counterbalancing functions. Not all of it needs to be shared. What IS shared should be fully authentic, but what happens on the inside belongs to me and me alone and I don't owe it to anyone to blurp it out to the exterior.

    Is any of this making any sense at all?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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