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  1. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I'm now aware that the stuff that sounds natural to me can come across as judgmental to the Fi users. It's really fascinating.
    We should also get some examples of what sounds judgmental from Fe-users to Fi-user ears.

  2. #312
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Well, all the good work in my reply to Jen flushed down the tubes with one colorful metaphor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think when I take your hand so that you can guide me into your world, remember that you're also taking my hand and thus entering mine. Maybe we will both see something together.
    Exactly. But I feel like Fe wants to control the car, so I'm just offering to drive for a while. Not saying you don't know how to drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    You felt pretension in that, Jennifer? I'm not questioning your feelings, BTW...just more, trying to figure out why.
    Peace baby's phrasing resonated to me, because that's how I phrase things, trying to take ownership and all that.
    Thanks Firey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    She was just threatened by her passion, that's all.
    Fire-fighting technique #2.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    That last paragraph about taking her hand and trusting her to lead Jennifer through the dark? Yep, it feels pretentious because there is no understanding that she is also missing Fe users meaning just as much. It appears more like she's got Fi AND Fe covered and if we'd only learn to be more trusting and let her lead the way through this scary path we could be enlightened.
    If you want to enter my world, I've got the map, see? That's all. See above. We're adults making an adult decision together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't consider that a "mature" response on my part, but that's what I felt, long before my brain could process it and put it into words. Some of that is the wording on her end, some of it is baggage on mine.
    I don't think anyone here is:

    a.) a coward
    b.) afraid to take their own journey
    c.) afraid to go to scary places
    d.) a child

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    That reminds me, what if you do hurt someone though?
    I can't make promises. All I can promise is to do the journey. Nothing more.

    Does intent really outweigh results for Fi-users?
    No, but it does have bearing.

    -----

    This is really wiping me out now and I am supposed to be "resting" from this dental surgery. SO will respond later when re-energized.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #313
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    What this thread looks like as well:

    Fe-users will exhaust Fi-users on the subject of Feeling well before the Fe-users are satisfied.

  4. #314
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I really do appreciate your taking the time to communicate all this, PB. I know it would probably exhaust me to explain Ti, especially if I felt like I was being misunderstood. Just know we are not willfully misunderstanding--a lot of Fi is just foreign to us. Most of it is. :-)
    Something Witty

  5. #315
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Exactly. But I feel like Fe wants to control the car, so I'm just offering to drive for a while. Not saying you don't know how to drive.
    Okay. You can drive, then, now that I understand you understand how I feel.

    I'm tired too... gotta go...!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #316
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I typed most of this up already, but now must rest.

    -----

    Ever notice how Fe defends Fe, Fi defends Fi? Or Fe understands Fe, Fi understands Fi?

    I admire you stepping up to the plate, so let's do this. It's all good. I love honest expression.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I'm kind of going out on a limb here by being this honest. I'm still not sure if it's the right thing to do, but I think that is more respectful to you from what I am hearing all of you Fi users saying. I find it very difficult to say something like this because I know it does end up creating waves and I hate waves. It's not that I'm angry, but rather that I find myself wanting to react with a flippant attitude, which isn't conducive to understanding or real conversation. I've tried hard not to do that, but thought perhaps expressing my impressions may give a better picture of what's going on.
    Well, if you want to be flippant, probably one of the safest venues to do it is right here, right now, with me. As long as we are clear on that, I give you permission to get your emotions clean off your chest. It's what I want. It's what (nearly all) Fi users want. We don't want your sanitized thoughts. And we know you have ones that aren't all nice and conducive to harmony. Just like I don't always have flowery thoughts that are conducive to harmony either. It doesn't mean though that because you feel those angry thoughts that you are bad or that the world will collapse. K?

    PeaceBaby, I've seen you so far recommend to EW, myself and Jennifer that we try active listening, as if it's something that you came up with and have mastered and which we never have. I know you don't mean it that way, but it really feels condescending, like you have found the perfect way to communicate and you are going to teach us. I expect that similarly, we maybe make you feel frustrated in doing something that we are unconscious of. If that is the case, I'd like to better understand that.
    You feel like I'm not recognizing that you are an intelligent caring person that works very, very hard to try to understand others. That the whole foundation on which you live your life is to try to reach out and help people. I get that and I admire it.

    What do you think would happen if you tried active listening? Do you think it would fail?

    It was a recommendation to all really, rather than pointed toward any individual. I am trying to say, "Here, look at this, maybe it's the universal translator. Maybe it will help us."

    I put up my workplace example. No one did any active listening with me, for example, saying, "PB, that was a travesty. When someone points out a workplace danger, it is important for that to be respected and heard. And you were brave to stand up when it was clear no one else would". If Fe is, as advertised, about working with the group, then I should be important too, since I am in this forum group. Why did I feel unheard then? Was anyone reaching out to understand me?

    Try active listening a couple of times and then claim it didn't work based on experiential data. Or not. It is something that's been helping me bridge the gap. And I don't mean the surface "I hear you" crap - go deeper, there's a lot more to active listening than just that.

    I feel irked when people say things like, "So what I am hearing you say is". It feels like I am visiting some kind of doctor, not having a conversation. I agree that active listening is important. It is important to non-judgementally gather information, ask questions to make sure we have accurately understood what was said, that we don't make assumptions and that we double check our perceptions before reacting. It just doesn't feel like that is what you are doing towards Jennifer. My perceptions may be wrong, but I notice that several Fe users are having similar reactions.
    You believe I have responded harshly to Jennifer, and are now rushing to her defense. Isn't this simply what Fi users are accused of all the time? Interfering in other people's personal business? Jen doesn't need you to rush in and help with this. We are two adults and we will get through our misunderstandings together. And, you are looking at one post. Isn't that an over-generalization on your part?

    When anyone has challenged your perceptions, you retreat right away to saying that it is either that they are not actively listening, that Fi is difficult to express and you took a lot of time and effort to do so, or that you see a deeper vision of the world than they do. That feels dismissive.
    I may not be understanding you correctly, and I find myself taking what you said here personally. What I thought you just said is that I have been close-minded, holier-than-thou and defensive in this thread. That I haven't listened to others, that I have judged them, and found them all lacking. Is that right?

    No one is trying to keep you from saying how you see things, or pull you back to a Fe outlook as the one right way. It is possible though that when they ask you more or challenging it, they are trying to better understand where you are coming from. I am wondering if that makes you feel put on the spot or defensive, as I feel with Te? For me, it has more to do with looking for a way to put into practice some of what you are saying and it is difficult to do so without properly understanding what Fi may look like when applied. Like with Te users, maybe that feels like we are forcing practical solutions before we adequately grasp the whole situation.
    @bold: I respect that. Ask any question you need to, and I will openly answer them. Be aware though that it's hard for me to articulate some stuff and very draining.

    @bold:

    I'm just not sure of a way to better figure to "synch up" our views as Jennifer called it, without looking for a way to bring some of Fi perspective into practical expression. Ideally, I think within an individual, a Fe perspective should be tempered by the beneficial added lens of Fi as we mature as individuals and vice versa. I also think that within a group, the mindset of both would end up creating a better result than only one or the other. This is what I think we are attempting to determine. Is that something that just can't be done, and so we are attempting to force Fi into a box that can't contain all the different individual expressions of it?
    I see it like a mobius strip, that we visit and revisit each other's POV to determine the most objective course forward.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #317
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    There are 4 ways to put out a fire:

    1.) Starvation - removal of the fuel
    2.) Smothering - exclusion of the oxygen
    3.) Cooling - reducing heat, with substances such as water
    4.) Inhibition of the combustion reaction - breaking the fuel, heat, oxygen chain reaction.

    Where would Fi users focus on putting out the emo-fire? Where would Fe users?

    Me, I would focus on 3 and 4 - I wouldn't try to smother it (#2), because I know emo-fires burn hotter when someone is trying to suppress them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    In many ways, I understand where my INFP mom is coming from (because I analyze it a ton and try to make an effort) much more than she knows where I am coming from. I told her some of the that really bothers me about our relationship over and over and over but she pretty much discounts it almost every time and boils it down to "hormones" and "tiredness" (or "he's just being a jerk because I didn't do anything wrong" or "I was just trying to help" whenever my dad gets mad). Maybe Fe seems superficial in general and Fi deep but it makes me think that it comes down to individual differences. But then again, she isn't very intellectual (by no means is she dumb) and doesn't like to analyze things. She would probably be like "you guys think too much" if she came on this site.
    lol. my mom too (she's ESFJ). i mean she's really smart too, but this all would probably be unappealing to her. anyway, what's confusing to me often is that i see intention as more important than end result - because i can't control end result, but i can control my intentions. and so i explain my intentions, so the other person understands that i meant no harm to them, but then sometimes they get upset with me for trying to "make excuses". but to me it's not excuse... it's the core problem... and it's not at all to say that i'm not sorry that the end result has turned out shitty, or that i played a part in it, but i try to clarify that i didn't want disharmony. even though it happened. so i'm not trying to excuse your mom or anything, but maybe that's part of what she's doing, too - seeing it from the lens of intention and missing how her actions played an integral part in leading to a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Do none of you people have jobs?
    freeeeeeeeeelancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I have found that many of my F friends believe that if you just continue to talk to someone, you can eventually make some sort of connection or make up in some way. I have not had that experience; I don't know whether my perspective is Fe or simply T, but from childhood I've just had some really formative relationships where people simply were not reasonable although I bent over backwards, so at this point I'm used to seeing where things are going based on the type and degree of resistance expressed earlier in the conflict, and often I just see it as futile.

    There is little to do but just suck it up... and it just makes even harder when the other person doesn't even seem to be aware of the amount of damage they can do to me on a deep level by remarks that end up seeming to mean little to them.
    haha wow, this is really true for me. i always feel like if two people try to work through their problems, eventually they'll get somewhere - and it really displeases me to have bad relationships with anyone, so it's hard for me to cut people off... somewhere it bothers me because i know it's not how, in my Truth, things should be.

    i also accidentally say things in the heat of the moment that are really caustic with the intention of protecting myself, because the other person feels threatening to me, and that's a surefire way to disarm. the irony is that i'm so blinded by the need to get my point across, because i feel like there's a wall between myself and the other person that is preventing harmony, that i end up saying something that completely destroys the harmony - and, in their eyes, can destroy any chance of ever having it.

    i don't really understand why anyone would want to ever shut anyone out permanently though... unless they're like a murderer or something... i feel like people should always have a chance for redemption. though i certainly understand generally keeping away from someone you don't really like.

    Well, that pretty describes the reason I've been a bit emo in some of this thread. I feel like my positive goodwill and motivations are easily discredited or labeled as "superficial" because they're Fe-related in mentality.
    yeah. i think it puts me immediately on edge to know that Ne is seen as superficial and quickly discredited by many Ni users, too, and from that lens i understand how frustrating it must be for Fe to be seen as superficial by some Fi users. at the same time, it's funny that you say positive goodwill, because, while i totally trust that you have that, i feel like i keep hearing in this thread from Fe users that intention shouldn't matter, only how you act. and that's an idea that's going to take me a really, really long time for me to approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I'm kind of going out on a limb here by being this honest. I'm still not sure if it's the right thing to do, but I think that is more respectful to you from what I am hearing all of you Fi users saying.
    yeah. it's how we communicate at the deepest level, i think. being kind and preserving external harmony drops in priority to being ridiculously honest about what you believe. it's our way of showing kindness and striving for harmony. thanks for trying to communicate the way we do.

    I know you don't mean it that way, but it really feels condescending, like you have found the perfect way to communicate and you are going to teach us. I expect that similarly, we maybe make you feel frustrated in doing something that we are unconscious of. If that is the case, I'd like to better understand that. [...] I feel irked when people say things like, "So what I am hearing you say is". It feels like I am visiting some kind of doctor, not having a conversation.
    tbh, active listening in adhering to a format bothers me. it's awkward as hell. i agree - i, ironically, feel like the other person isn't actually listening, i feel like they're filling out a form. it needs to be tempered with variety and the smoothness of regular conversation.

    It is important to non-judgementally gather information, ask questions to make sure we have accurately understood what was said, that we don't make assumptions and that we double check our perceptions before reacting.

    When anyone has challenged your perceptions, you retreat right away to saying that it is either that they are not actively listening, that Fi is difficult to express and you took a lot of time and effort to do so, or that you see a deeper vision of the world than they do. That feels dismissive.

    No one is trying to keep you from saying how you see things, or pull you back to a Fe outlook as the one right way. It is possible though that when they ask you more or challenging it, they are trying to better understand where you are coming from.
    i think one problem that might come into play is that sometimes people see - or at least focus - on a different point than the one that i'm trying to communicate, which is actually great for perspective, but when they bypass acknowledging my point (or just saying they're not sure you see my point) and jump to challenging me - or, worse, not even responding (though i understand how this one is kind of different in an online forum), it registers on some really deep level that they haven't made an effort to connect with me - which, on the surface, feels like they're going on the attack - so i go on the defense, seeking for them to see my point. the thing that active listening does that i think is pleasing for Fi is that it makes the other person show that they're openly trying to be on the same page as me before moving on.

    when someone go right to questioning, i can mistakenly interpret that as someone judging before understanding. i think that to me it's just not clear that they're simply seeking more information, instead of questioning my values.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I am just laughing because you're stepping on my toes too. I mean, that last paragraph, for example, I felt waves of pretention by the wording you chose. I don't think you meant that, though; it's just what it triggered when it reached me.
    it felt a bit pretentious to me too ._. no offense though PB, i see how you meant it (and it was rather pleasing artisically) and i agree that it feels like Fe always wants to be in the driver's seat, even in Fi territory.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    That reminds me, what if you do hurt someone though?

    A Fi-user said to me (I'm paraphrasing) that Fe-users disregard what is meant (intent) and focus on the tangible (form). I don't know if "form" is the right word, but I do think Fe-users focus on the results of emotional interaction and do think the intentions of others are secondary.

    Does intent really outweigh results for Fi-users?
    holy crap, absolutely - at least me personally. it's the matter of control. i control my intentions 100%. my actions are tainted with other forces in the external world. thus it's logical to me that i should be more responsible for what i can control. why hold me more accountable for something that was, in part, out of my control, and dismiss what i do have control over? i understand that the result is reality, and thus in some sense more important, but i still can't totally control it.

    I do dislike when I'm read wrong, aka assigned a motivation/intent I did not have, when I hurt someone's feelings. My response is to take back what I've said/written, because obviously there was a communication failure. But with Fi-users that doesn't seem to work very often, because the misidentified intent still remains and I'm unsure how to correct that. As a (weak) Fe-user it's like a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't-trap.
    yeah, i've heard this a few times, and it's confusing to me because i do think intention is of greatest importance... actually i think maybe sometimes there's a value breach that lies even deeper than intention that we judge on.

    for example, i recently got a very expensive dress for an important upcoming event, and was really excited about showing it to a friend. she'd gotten one a while before and, while it wasn't really my taste, it was well-suited to her. i admired and appreciated it extensively for what it was, even though it was not appealing to me personally, because she is my friend and i value her perspective. and i do find it appealing, as it fits her personality. i wasn't being fake at all.

    flash forward a few months, i send her a picture of mine, which i am so excited about, and her first response is to say that her mom has a similar dress except it's fancier and more expensive. i was pissed off! i didn't even like her dress, but i made an effort to see it through her eyes because i respect her. her first response to this thing that i had put so much time and thought and money into, and that i saw as a reflection of myself, was to imply that it was inferior. when i told her that i knew she didn't mean it but that comment hurt me, she said that it wasn't her intention to devalue it, that she was only relating it to something she knew, but later she implied that i would get better dresses in the future. i still have trouble getting over the fact that she didn't even try to see something positive about something i cared so much about when i went out of my way to do it for her. in this case, it's the underlying sense of values that gets to me - that she doesn't care enough about me to try to take care of my sense of self and to see things through my perspective, as i go out of my way to do for her.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat
    I always saw these kinds of things as someone seeing if their feelings are shared by others; to express it publicly. To validate their feelings. They may not feel that everyone involved really understands how they felt. Once again with the perceiver thing, always taking in information about an issue.
    this is an excellent point. there's also just something slightly deceptive about going to someone in private, to me. like you can be the only one controlling them. in public, others have their say too.

    First off, this is the internet. You can act however the hell you want and get away with it.
    !

  8. #318
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    Sorry for skipping the last page, but I wanted to add something before you guys moved on more. (You people type too fast, damn it.) :steam:

    This is only my interpretation of course and please note my own bias. Language is not my ideal form of expression of my thoughts either.

    Fe-users trying to be direct in this thread seem to be insulting. Fi-users in this thread trying to be tactful seem to be sarcastic. Both sides seem condescending. Everyone is being misinterpreted and putting out misinterpretations. I guess I'm trying to say instead of talking the way we think the other side wants us to, we are garbling our own language. Sort of like how some people in the US trying to speak Spanish by speaking Spanglish and vice versa?

    What is the Spanish version of Spanglish? Inglanol? :confused:
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

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  9. #319
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    PeaceBaby, I think perhaps you are mistaking what I said for defense of Jennifer, when in fact, it isn't. Fe (for me at least) makes me very reticent to say what I feel (especially if it seems harsh) until I have examined and re-examined my own motives and also checked to make sure that I'm not alone in my perceptions.

    I realize that the majority is not always right and the minority is not always wrong. However, if someone spontaneously expresses what I've been feeling all along and have discounted to myself as being just my mood, poorer self peeking out, unkindness, lack of understanding etc, then it gives me some indicator that perhaps I wasn't off base in feeling that way. Even after I posted that, I ended up sending PMs to two different people to get their feelings about it and make sure that they weren't seeing something in myself that I had missed that would detract from the message.

    In this case, Jennifer posted something that I also felt. I also knew there were others whose first reaction was similar. I've been finding that Fi users are somehow suspicious if I express things as I normally do, like I am being dishonest. I prefer to meter it out a little at a time so that if my perceptions were wrong, I can go back to where I took the wrong turn sooner, rather than after I've put it all out there.

    When Fe users say something, they show you the tip of the iceberg, assuming that you realize that there's a bunch more underneath that if you want to know more about you will ask to see. By acknowledging the tip that's been shown, you are acknowledging that there's been something that needs to change to melt the iceberg. I believe that it is important to show people that the iceberg is there, but I also expect that they will use the information they have access to to steer around it or to address it in some way. If the person seems to ignore it, the message gets more urgent and the bluntness is stepped up. Iceberg ahead! You are about to crash!

    Fi users, on the other hand, value open expression. I'm wondering then if a Fe user says something, if Fi users tend then to assume that they are seeing everything that's there or else feel that Fe users are disengenuously hiding the rest of the iceberg and therefore causing their boat to capsize on purpose? When you seem blunt or "passionate", we assume that there is a whole lot more under the surface that we're not seeing. When you insist that it's just your passion and intensity of feeling, we still fish around for our navigational instruments. Similarly when Fi users start blunt first, it feels as if someone's got a megaphone and yelling "Iceberg!!!" When we discover that it actually wasn't that big and we went to a lot of inconvenience and threw some supplies over the edge to lighten our load so we could better navigate around this huge thing quickly and they say, "Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you, it just looked like an iceberg but it didn't turn out to be that big after all" I feel like they were the Boy Who Cried Wolf. I know if that's not the case, and it certainly is an imperfect metaphor, but that's sort of the way it feels.

    What confuses me though is that even within the NFP variety of Fi users, there are only some people that I seem to have more problems understanding and being understood by. I can't account for what that factor is that makes me feel that way, because those people often get along very well with other NFPs that I find more ease of communication with.

    Well, if you want to be flippant, probably one of the safest venues to do it is right here, right now, with me. As long as we are clear on that, I give you permission to get your emotions clean off your chest. It's what I want. It's what (nearly all) Fi users want. We don't want your sanitized thoughts. And we know you have ones that aren't all nice and conducive to harmony. Just like I don't always have flowery thoughts that are conducive to harmony either. It doesn't mean though that because you feel those angry thoughts that you are bad or that the world will collapse. K?

    I'm sorry. While I would like to accommodate you, I think flippancy is ignoring others comments or making fun of them or dismissing them. I can't in good conscience do that. And the level of candour you are asking for is something I reserve for maybe 2 or 3 people in the world. It's only something that I offer if it's someone that I love dearly and whom I intend to have in my life indefinity, if it's someone I cannot work around without dealing with the issue, or someone that I have been through everything with and have an extremely high trust level with. For me to even write as much as I did was difficult, and at that, I feel like you didn't accurately understand some of what I wrote. I'm not likely to put more out there if what was out there so far isn't accurately perceived. However for the sake of experiment and learning, I will say a little more.

    What do you think would happen if you tried active listening? Do you think it would fail?

    It was a recommendation to all really, rather than pointed toward any individual. I am trying to say, "Here, look at this, maybe it's the universal translator. Maybe it will help us."


    Try active listening a couple of times and then claim it didn't work based on experiential data. Or not. It is something that's been helping me bridge the gap. And I don't mean the surface "I hear you" crap - go deeper, there's a lot more to active listening than just that.

    Are you for real? Translated, your statement reads, "I actively listen and the rest of you do not. I will lead you into the world of harmony filled communication if only you will allow me to show you, because I know what's right for you and for everyone else." In short, your comments seem either passive-aggressive or else or like you are making a lot of assumptions that I feel are inaccurate.

    This is not about the image I have of myself, even though caring for others and listening to them is a value of mine. My objection lies in that you are assuming information that is incorrect and prescribing something that has not been requested. If I ride in that car with you, I'm still going to keep driving. What I want is someone next to me who can give me some directions in unfamiliar neighbourhoods or provide information that I lack so that I learn to successfully navigate myself. I don't want you to drive my car. Similarly, when I ride in your car, I'm not going to try to take over the wheel. I may let you know what information I have access to and if you want any of it, I'd be happy to sit there as a passenger and let you ask whatever you want. That's what feels respectful to me.

    I put up a huge red flag for you about that active listening comment and how condescending and rude you sounded to my Fe ears. You did not take it as a sign that this might be a good point to take a couple steps back and see where you went off the tracks in the Fe translation. You not only continued on, but started jumping up and down on that very spot. It's hard to not feel like you want to be seen as a harbinger of peace while avoiding taking responsibility for how you communicate.

    I realize that some of my impressions are likely not accurate. I'm just trying to provide you with a picture of how it looks from here. If you want to help me understand Fe, the more descriptive you can be, the better. Please do not be prescriptive, or it will evoke a snarly response in me that I do not want to feel towards you.

  10. #320
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Skylights, what you wrote was hugely helpful to me. This is the kind of feedback that I personally find most easy to use and incorporate.

    I remember being amazed at the different things that my ESTJ ex bf and I noticed when we went for a drive together. I drove the same route to work every day that he did, and yet he was much more aware of a lot of the people he saw driving past, what work certain people had done on their property, how many cars were parked somewhere, what colour a certain building was. It made me appreciate those things in a much different way than I would have otherwise because that's not what I saw when I looked at the landscape.

    What you just did shows me better what your Fi eyes see when you at the world. By doing so, it quiets the frustration of feeling misunderstood or focussing on the other person to allow me to then notice some of the things in the landscape that I may normally pass by or not be able to identify.

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