User Tag List

First 12341252 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 938

  1. #11
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,099

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    LOL

    Another EsotericWench/Orobas/Fidelia/Satine epic!

    I look forward to the massive walls of text and all the 's.
    Haha, don't forget Z Buck too!

  2. #12
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Starting with our differences feels confrontational, puts me on the spot, and I feel at a disadvantage and rushed when trying to explain my point of view.

    I'm also just more cautious and want to understand how my actions/words will be received and who is allied with who before I go out on a limb and say it all. Not knowing that makes me feel terribly uncomfortable and insecure. That's why when someone doesn't give any encouraging signs or respond when I'm saying something, I tend to back way off or withdraw somewhat. I assume it means that I am treading on dangerous (or important) ground (to them) and I do what I would want others to in that case.

    Because the Fi users in questions are also Te users, they are not going to be as upset by differences. Te is practical and sometimes a little ruthless (I don't mean that Te users are ruthless, but Te as a function is). Fi feels strongly and tends to be very black and white (especially when it is intense). Therefore on neither count does it make sense to hold back if there is something important to say. Getting the message out, not the method used to do so is the first priority. This is the reason why Fe users sometimes find it abrasive, while Fe users find the need for couching things a certain way is stifling and they are concerned that by insisting on a prescribed way to share the message, it will actually obscure it.

    I'm not sure about this, but do you think it's possible that Fe-Ti people see things in many shades of grey, rather than black and white (kind of like Fi-Te is about emotions). Therefore it is important to be precise about expressing your ideas/feelings (hence the emphasis on the message) and it feels wrong to insist that things ARE a certain way, as Fi-Te may feel more comfortable doing (Te generalizes a little more, Fi feels very very strongly)? Just kind of thinking aloud. I haven't really tested all of that out yet against all the real life situations I could to see if it holds true.

    I'm not sure what to think about it all, as I know that INFPs are very non-confrontational by nature, although when a value gets stepped on, most of that goes out the door. It seems like it's kind of all or nothing with them.
    Fidelia, you wrote this while I was writing my response to Z Buck McFate. I also find what you said here very interesting.

    I recently wrote on another thread that the way to love an ENFP was to understand them. To "get" them. When I read the bold and underlined section above I literally choked up. Yes, this is exactly right. That is me.

    What really breaks my heart is thinking about the misunderstandings this has caused in the past between me and Fe users. Neither one of us had bad intentions, but I think you're exactly right. Unwittingly we were exhausting each other.

    Much to think about indeed.

    Even though it's not the stated objective of this thread, perhaps I can postulate that if FeTi users and FiTe users can understand this about one another, sooooo many problems would be avoided.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  3. #13
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonkavision View Post
    LOL

    Another EsotericWench/Orobas/Fidelia/Satine epic!

    I look forward to the massive walls of text and all the 's.
    Well, you've got us all nailed.

    But Wonkavision, what about your bombastic verbosity? I think they'll take away your ENFP card if you don't post at least one or two walls of text.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  4. #14
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    haha there are 12 people currently viewing this thread. apparently all of us who had something to do this afternoon are done now

    the thought that occurs to me off the bat is that i always have the biggest problems in the heat of the moment. i am so concerned about how something needs to be said that how it will go over doesn't occur to me much.

    and this is made even worse because i am shitty at predicting things. i think it's important to note that ESFJ and ENFJ have the gifts of aux Si and Ni to help them either analyze how it went in similar situations in the past and/or how it probably will go. my ENFJ friend often says to me, well you knew that wasn't the way to go about it! but honestly, i have a pretty crappy hold on how it's gonna go over. whereas she can practically predict the future.

    in other words... owning up to the limits of our other functions can help understand our Fi/Fe behavior too

    ps i'll come back and do that format thingy later

  5. #15
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Although I have participated somewhat in these threads in the past, it is interesting to me to note that it's the aux's who get really involved in trying to understand the dynamic.

    I wonder why?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #16
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    haha there are 12 people currently viewing this thread. apparently all of us who had something to do this afternoon are done now

    the thought that occurs to me off the bat is that i always have the biggest problems in the heat of the moment. i am so concerned about how something needs to be said that how it will go over doesn't occur to me much.

    and this is made even worse because i am shitty at predicting things. i think it's important to note that ESFJ and ENFJ have the gifts of aux Si and Ni to help them either analyze how it went in similar situations in the past and/or how it probably will go. my ENFJ friend often says to me, well you knew that wasn't the way to go about it! but honestly, i have a pretty crappy hold on how it's gonna go over. whereas she can practically predict the future.

    in other words... owning up to the limits of our other functions can help understand our Fi/Fe behavior too

    ps i'll come back and do that format thingy later
    This made me laugh because I use the word 'thingy' too... all the time. Sorry to be completely off topic, but reading this was just such a joyful moment.

    Yeah, Skylights. You're right. I'm so good at reading people and anticipating their reactions. But when my Fi gets going, it's like I just took an INTx pill. (Sorry INTx's but you know what I mean.)

    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  7. #17
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Although I have participated somewhat in these threads in the past, it is interesting to me to note that it's the aux's who get really involved in trying to understand the dynamic.

    I wonder why?
    PeaceBaby, I think this is a VERY important question that I've spent some time thinking about. My BFF is an INFP (Fi dom user). And she doesn't seem to have the problems dealing with Fe users that I do. Which on one level makes no sense to me. Yet again, if you take into account Ti versus Te when trying to solve this equation, then this doesn't seem so unexpected.

    (BTW, my INFP BFF does have problems inter-relating to INFJs, but her problems seem to be associated with too much Introversion. In other words, she doesn't press our mutual INFJ friends in the way that I do. Normally, I'm very cautious in pressing them, but she doesn't press them at all... and thus issues remain outstanding and information isn't exchanged.)
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  8. #18
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    I would say it's true I don't press INFJ's IRL. I only know a handful mind you. But I just don't press because I know it won't go anywhere, they'll just retreat and then won't communicate. An Fe dom will go to battle and at least we'll get things sorted, eventually. (Harder here on the forum though to get there.)

    -----

    To comply with the OP:

    My Fi gets me into righteous trouble regularly.

    When Fi Went Awry: I worked in a retail store part-time to make extra money when my kids were small. During my 1st Christmas there, when that particular store did 40% of their year in one month, the stock rooms were literally stuffed full of product. We're talking 20 foot high ceilings, with body space to crawl along the top to get product out. Shelving just as high. Us girls would climb the shelving to restock product; there were no ladders, no safety gear, we just climbed up and got stuff down. This seemed dangerous to me, but I was in my 20's and didn't speak up initially, just did my job. Until - until the day I slipped and fell off a shelf, from a height of about 8 feet. I had a very safe, almost laughable landing, thanks to a box of cotton balls. BUT - I realized I could not just be quiet about this, I had to speak up in order to try to make work a safer place. Anyone else could fall. Someone could get hurt. SO, my Fi speaks up.

    Why Did Fi Do That?: Working in an unsafe workplace is inappropriate; no one's safety and well-being should be compromised in order to sell products. I spoke eloquently about the issue to the assistant manager and the manager; I commented to the other girls who worked there to be careful. I got out the Workplace Health and Safety Act. I tried to approach the franchise owner.

    And, the outcome? Even though I was the top salesperson in the store (working P/T even), I was asked to quietly leave. I was asked to leave because ... I shouldn't rock the boat? Should say nothing and just be glad I have a job? (I got a new job practically the next day so that was no probs.) But it was personally affronting though that when I discovered something unsafe, I should be punished for being outspoken.

    Bear in mind I was only P/T, no union, no protection. So, no recourse. The smartest thing I could have done was take a whole bunch of photos. But I didn't expect to be "let go" for raising a safety issue!

    What was Fi’s justification for doing what it did? It was the right thing to do. Keeping myself and others out of harm's way is the right thing to do.

    How Were Others Inconvenienced? : Clearly it was too much of an inconvenience to make a store safer - the managers had the enviable job of asking me to find new employment, I suppose that was uncomfortable for them. I think it inconvenienced me most.

    How did this display of Fi affect the other parties involved? I had hoped some people would feel empowered to speak up, but mostly the other girls knew I was treading on thin ice when my original outspokenness was met with resistance. They tried to tell me to be quiet, to not get into trouble. Then, they started to distance themselves from me in order to avoid getting into trouble themselves.

    Comments: This is how Fi gets me into trouble, IMO. No other way I can think of. Here on the forums, I try to be more open in expressing my Fi conceptually, so that gets me into trouble sometimes it seems. But, IRL, I protect the Fi in general and only bring out the "big guns" for what I consider the important stuff. The rest of the stuff can generally be managed day to day.

    But I would speak up again in a heart-beat. Even knowing the consequences. And I have. But those are other stories!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #19
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    595

    Default

    Introverted Feeling (Fi) - The introverted feeling function concerns itself with the values expressed in the archetypal aspect of situations, often relating to the actual situation by measuring it against an ideal. When the actual is found wanting, introverted feeling can become intensely disappointed. Although it often finds it hard to articulate its judgments, or simply prefers to keep them to itself, introverted feeling also tends to ignore social limits regarding the communication of critical responses, to the point of appearing to depreciate others. It may withhold positive feelings as insincere and fail to offer healing gestures to smooth over difficult situations. In its shadow aspect, introverted feeling becomes rageful, anxious, and sullen. It may withdraw all support for attitudes it has decided are simply wrong, even at the risk of rupturing relationship and agreed-upon standards of fellow-feeling.
    I can totally relate to this when I'm deeply upset.
    But then doesn't Fe turn into Fi in shadow function? I guess that's what it is.

  10. #20
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Te
    Posts
    1,387

    Default

    INTJ here. I'm not mainly an F user, but I think I have enough Fi to understand how it works, and I can at least theoretically understand Fe, mostly by analogizing it with Te.

    I think Fi has a tendency to cause trouble with Fe because more often than not, Fi users make "intent" very important in a situation. Fi says "I didn't mean to cause any harm" and Fe says it's irrelevant. What matters is results, not method. You caused derision and impacted the group, whether you meant to or not. In that way, Fe is like Te. Fi would also be like Ti in that the methodology, having the right intent, or in the case of Ti, logic, is more important than the apparent outcome. I think the answer is, at least from an Fi perspective, to recognize that what's right isn't always what's right. I don't know about Fe, because I don't think I understand it well enough to judge it or its users.

    Just the opinion of a rather emotionally-disconnected NT.
    Last edited by freeeekyyy; 09-26-2010 at 06:04 PM. Reason: fixed spelling
    You lose.

    _______

    RCOEI
    Melancholic-Choleric
    Respectful Leader

    Johari Window|Nohari Window
    Likes Empyrean liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. When Fe meets Fi......
    By RedAmazoneFriendZone in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 05-15-2016, 08:09 AM
  2. Fe vs. Fi, Disloyalty, Allegiance, Or the Lack Thereof…
    By Esoteric Wench in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 01-13-2011, 07:55 PM
  3. [NT] Fe and Fi, the NT version
    By BlahBlahNounBlah in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 04-20-2010, 09:55 AM
  4. Let's end the Fe/Ti - Fi/Te wars once and for all...
    By onemoretime in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 03-16-2010, 12:00 PM
  5. Why does Ti always go with Fe and Fi with Te?
    By sofmarhof in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 02-23-2010, 03:57 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO