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  1. #91
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I'm curious to see some Fe users posts some examples of their Fe going awry... because it does happen.
    Maybe it’s just me, but I had trouble coming up with my own example because describing “how Fe goes awry” is too vague. The closest I could come to answering was to take your answer (thus giving me a very specific context) and provide a speculative alternative of what might go awry for me with Fe.

    Even after reading some Fi examples- I still don’t understand what you’re looking for. Same with the example you gave of Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Ha ha. Right on. I don't think that is Fi gone awry - I think that's Fi gone right.
    Exactly. So I’m just not understanding what the op is asking for.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  2. #92
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think I could come up with examples of how my Ti has gone awry better than my Fe. Because Fe is somewhat simpler, as is Te, I think they are both a little easier to monitor. There are times I think when others may feel oppressed by an expectation to use Fe, but I'm assuming that isn't really the kind of story you are looking for.

    Everything that Z Buck has said so far mirrors what my questions have been about this and my sentiments/experiences as well.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I
    Does sitting on your Fi always feel stifling, or have you just sort of accepted it? I think at this point in my life, I've kind of accepted that there are many places where my Ti isn't welcomed with open arms.
    I think I've accepted it, for the most part. I'm content to keep my thoughts to myself with people that I'm not close to, and that's fine. I don't really need others to understand or agree with me. I'd rather listen to what they have to say and make them feel heard. I don't need to talk about myself all that much. There are many instances when my Fi wouldn't be understood, so why go there? But with people that are closest to me, I'll pour out my heart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I agree with that--I try not to use Fe for a personal agenda, but I do see people doing it. It's very distasteful to me. In those cases, I'm often the person that stands up to the Fe user, trying to break the spell he or she has cast.
    This discussion of Fe is interesting: As other Fi users have said, I can see both my internal values and also what is best for the whole group. I can't not see the whole group and what impact my actions or what I say might have on them. I only stand up for that internal value if it's extremely violated, and even then I consider the place or situation (usually this is at work since this is where I spend most of my time). I often feel that what concerns me would not interest most people I come into contact with.

    As to the OP's question: FI has exploded for me when I have waited too long to say what I feel, when there is someone who needs an answer or thought from me sooner than I could give it.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post

    Exactly. So I’m just not understanding what the op is asking for.
    Yeah...when I think of Fi gone awry, I think of emotional outbursts, crying jags, unrequited love that goes on for way too long, and having loud public arguments.

    Oh ...I can help you guys out with "Fe gone wrong" ...it involves over-policing other people or butting into other people's conflicts or relationships or lifestyle choices that don't concern you with an authoritative sense of self-righteousness. And I mean that in real life as well as on-line, ofc.

    But on-line in particular, I can't tell you how many times I've seen people with Fe on this forum complain about stuff that doesn't even directly involve with them, like if everyone doesn't march in lockstep then OMGZ teh entyre forum will be ruinz!!!!
    Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.


    There was a convo about this last night in vent, someone bitching about certain members talking or acting a certain way in various threads that they weren't even participating in themselves...and it's like...who the fuck cares, as long as they aren't breaking any forum rules?

    I see this place as a divergent community, not a cohesive environment. I think that might be the difference between Fe and Fi on this forum, at least. I dunno.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Yeah, I had forgotten that both ENFJs and INFPs have a inferior thinking functions. That would make sense then.

    I think also that INFPs feel put on the spot or cohearsed by INFJ Fe just as we sometimes feel with ENFP Te. I avoid situations where I am going to have to debate something that I haven't thought sufficiently about or where someone tries to impose a solution on me when I think they don't understand the problem. I could see how INFPs would feel similarly about my Fe smothering their Fi or putting them on the spot to explain it.

    I also expect that the reason Te users find the meandering and many shaded thoughts of Ti puzzling is the same reason we find Fi puzzling: we can't imagine not having it readily available to express what you feel. Te users can't understand not being able to readily express your logic without getting all quanitifying and rabbit trailey about it.
    To be honest, I don't really participate in these threads because I feel like I get bulldozed over when I assert my opinions in these superfluous Fe, Fi threads and/or get misinterpreted a lot. It's not necessarily because thinking is my inferior. I would rather pick my battles somewhere else. Have Fun!

  6. #96
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    .

    Oh ...I can help you guys out with "Fe gone wrong" ...it involves over-policing other people or butting into other people's conflicts or relationships or lifestyle choices that don't concern you with an authoritative sense of self-righteousness. And I mean that in real life as well as on-line, ofc..
    I once got tired of seeing friends get taken advantage of by a roommate, doing all of the usual "bad roomate" things.. and as I was sitting on the couch, listening to their grumbling passiveness and the roomate's flippant attitude, I decided to just tackle the guy and rub his face on a hardwood floor. After he stopped squirming, I told him to go to his room

    Needless to say, he moved out. For awhile there, I also looked crazy. But I'm still friends with the others. I guess you could say it's nosy, self-righteous Fe gone awry for their sake. I had no stake in it really. Also, it's no different than what some Fi types would do. That's what I meant by being no different than Blackcat. I guess. (btw, I don't make a habit of this) *sigh* I just think I'm Fe because 1) I honestly do care about others getting wronged and express it, peacefully or otherwise and 2) I even care about telling this story. I feel like it makes me look stupid in front of you all. I withhold things from time to time.. I care a little too much about what others think.

    Oh well

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I once got tired of seeing friends get taken advantage of by a roommate, doing all of the usual "bad roomate" things.. and as I was sitting on the couch, listening to their grumbling passiveness and the roomate's flippant attitude, I decided to just tackle the guy and rub his face on a hardwood floor. After he stopped squirming, I told him to go to his room

    Needless to say, he moved out. For awhile there, I also looked crazy. But I'm still friends with the others. I guess you could say it's nosy, self-righteous Fe gone awry for their sake. I had no stake in it really. Also, it's no different than what some Fi types would do. That's what I meant by being no different than Blackcat. I guess. (btw, I don't make a habit of this) *sigh* I just think I'm Fe because 1) I honestly do care about others getting wronged and express it, peacefully or otherwise and 2) I even care about telling this story. I feel like it makes me look stupid in front of you all. I withhold things from time to time.. I care a little too much about what others think.

    Oh well
    Hmmm...I don't know if what you're describing is Fe or Fi...here's why: ENFPs like to defend other people. I am notorious for sticking up for my friends or for people whom I like, even if I wasn't asked to do so. I've actually had an ISFJ ask me why I feel a need to defend certain people. But I only do it with people I have a feeling of affection for. In case you haven't noticed, there's a buttload of Fi users (ENFPs and INTJs mostly) who loudly complain when one of their friends is banned or something. There are entire fifty page threads on the topic.

    Fe, on the other hand, cares about stuff that doesn't involve them - in extremely conservative cases, they even care if random people on the street are homosexual. Even in more liberal cases, Fe users will police people that they feel no particular attachment for, not for any personal protective reason, but more for a sense of keeping what they feel is moral order. In the cases I'm talking about specifically on this forum, there are people who will complain about ANY disruption or strange or overly expressive behavior even if it doesn't affect them or their friends. It's more like an obsession with keeping order, at least that's what it looks like to me as someone with Fi.

  8. #98
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You know, Te thinks it's right all the time. As does Fe. It makes it a big hurdle to overcome.
    A person using [Te] will often assert that they are [right]. They, in a sense, don't have a choice since the route to [truth] is experiential and external. Where a [Ti] person might retreat to the inner world to sift and categorise, the [Te] person will blurt out what is effectively a hypothesis, an assertion that this or that is [true]. The person, however, is not merely attempting to find out some [truth] or test some hypothesis. They are instead attempting to bring their own condition into accordance with the world and they can't view this process as intrinsically hypothetical without damaging its integrity. So they start the process as if they already are where they seek to be. Indeed, the only way to truly make these [Te] claims of endless rightness into the hypotheses they truly are is to make those claimants move back inside themselves into the space where hypotheses are hypotheses still. Those people will never truly be who they must be that way, but at least they can have hypotheses.

    So with [Te] there is not a satisfaction with approximation or of averaging, but of constructively moving toward the light.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  9. #99
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    A person using [Te] will often assert that they are [right].
    I agree, and I appreciate the distinction you are making. However, convincing is needed in order for the Te to abandon that which they proclaim as truth, yet is effectively in reality a hypothesis. Which they will readily do, if the new evidence suggests so.

    I have been married to an ESTJ for over 20 years, so I know all about that!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  10. #100
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I agree, and I appreciate the distinction you are making. However, convincing is needed in order for the Te to abandon that which they proclaim as truth, yet is effectively in reality a hypothesis. Which they will readily do, if the new evidence suggests so.

    I have been married to an ESTJ for over 20 years, so I know all about that!

    Poor downtrodden [Te].


    The purpose of the square brackets is to suggest that Fe follows the same constructive process in the world.

    A person using [Fe] will often assert that they are [justified]. They, in a sense, don't have a choice since the route to [value] is experiential and external. Where a [Fi] person might retreat to the inner world to sift and categorise, the [Fe] person will blurt out what is effectively a hypothesis, an assertion that this or that is [right]. The person, however, is not merely attempting to find out some [moral] or test some hypothesis. They are instead attempting to bring their own condition into accordance with the world and they can't view this process as intrinsically hypothetical without damaging its integrity. So they start the process as if they already are where they seek to be. Indeed, the only way to truly make these [Fe] claims of endless rightness into the hypotheses they truly are is to make those claimants move back inside themselves into the space where hypotheses are hypotheses still. Those people will never truly be who they must be that way, but at least they can have hypotheses.


    I don't know if those are the right words to substitute in the brackets, but it's interesting that what pops out at the end seems to count as a definition of authenticity.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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