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  1. #51
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    I rather like a combination of mind-control items.

    Implausibly cute kittens, eight pairs of hand cuffs, plus a choking haze of cheap cologne. No one escapes!
    Does this mean that I too can know the magic of ENFJ mind-control, if I figure out the correct way to apply said ingredients?

    *cautiously rubs implausibly cute kitten onto various body parts*
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  2. #52
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

  3. #53
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Thessaly, I like you, so I'm going to tell you to run your little butt off in the opposite direction. You see an ENFJ coming toward you, RUN. I'm sad to say that I find us all pretty much like mutants. My sister briefly dated one and I wanted to chase him out of my yard with a stick.
    I am actually going to take this advice seriously. The next time an ENFJ contacts me I am gone like yesterday. They won't even get acknowledgment in the slightest form.

    It's either that or turn into a sadist and inject them with my slow working emotional poison, but I prefer to save that for the sensor exes who never understood me. Plus I'm too sporting to try to hurt an ENFJ. That's simply too easy; like taking candy from a deaf, blind baby with no arms.
    With dreamers, pure and simple, the imagination remains a vaguely sketched inner affair. It is not embodied in any aesthetic or practical invention. Reverie is the equivalent of weak desires. Dreamers are the aboulics of the creative imagination.

  4. #54
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Ah yes, the "yo-yo effect" is what I like to call it..... I don't think these ENFJs are consciously aware of it. Often, these are rather insecure ENFJs looking for validation - once they get some, they let go because there was never any serious intention & they truly do not want to lead you on. However, once they start feeling down they'll reel you in again for an ego boost. This is NOT characteristic of all ENFJs, but common enough that patterns seem to be noted by many who've dealt with ENFJs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    You have certainly figured out one thing.. You are responsible for how you feel about someone, not the other way around.
    This is one of those over-simplified, cliche statements that REALLY annoys me. It completely removes responsibility from a person for their treatment of another person. People are also responsible for how they behave, what they say, and how they continue to deal with another person once they are aware of how it affects them. If you go around screaming at people & can't figure out why they all get upset & don't like you, then there is something wrong with you. You've affected them, and you certainly bear some responsibility.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #55
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    Don't give up on all ENFJs we ain't all bad. INFPs are supposed be ENFJs compatible relationship match!
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

  6. #56
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Ah yes, the "yo-yo effect" is what I like to call it..... I don't think these ENFJs are consciously aware of it. Often, these are rather insecure ENFJs looking for validation - once they get some, they let go because there was never any serious intention & they truly do not want to lead you on. However, once they start feeling down they'll reel you in again for an ego boost. This is NOT characteristic of all ENFJs, but common enough that patterns seem to be noted by many who've dealt with ENFJs....



    This is one of those over-simplified, cliche statements that REALLY annoys me. It completely removes responsibility from a person for their treatment of another person. People are also responsible for how they behave, what they say, and how they continue to deal with another person once they are aware of how it affects them. If you go around screaming at people & can't figure out why they all get upset & don't like you, then there is something wrong with you. You've affected them, and you certainly bear some responsibility.
    This post made me feel bad for being an asshole to this girl today....
    Oh, its
    You
    ....

  7. #57
    Senior Member Blown Ghost's Avatar
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    Uh, sorry but I think your perspective on this is all backwards. It is the less aware, less experienced, or less developed person who needs to adapt and take on more responsibility. It's very ignorant and senseless to expect the "haves" to regress themselves just so the "have-nots" don't have to feel insecure. In my experience, it is always the former who is compromising and sacrificing and the latter who just plain "sucks" (in many meanings of the word) because they don't know better.

    In fact, understanding and accepting where one is immature or weak to such high standards is how one gets to be many of these qualities you consider to be negative. Normally I wouldn't do this check yo'self before you wreck yo'self bit, but I feel the need to set the record straight here lest some sensitive but not yet strong ENFJ actually thinks there is yet something else they need to improve on if they act like you describe.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    This is one of those over-simplified, cliche statements that REALLY annoys me. It completely removes responsibility from a person for their treatment of another person. People are also responsible for how they behave, what they say, and how they continue to deal with another person once they are aware of how it affects them. If you go around screaming at people & can't figure out why they all get upset & don't like you, then there is something wrong with you. You've affected them, and you certainly bear some responsibility.
    You might want to re-read the first post. The "offender" cycles between charisma, focus on others, support, kindness, and withdrawl out of careful consideration. As far as we know, the "offendee" here complains about everyone rather than everyone complaining about the offender. Let's observe the true colors of the offendee by how he/she chooses to respond to what they consider to be less than optimal social circumstances.

    Exhibit A:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thessaly View Post
    I am actually going to take this advice seriously. The next time an ENFJ contacts me I am gone like yesterday. They won't even get acknowledgment in the slightest form.

    It's either that or turn into a sadist and inject them with my slow working emotional poison, but I prefer to save that for the sensor exes who never understood me. Plus I'm too sporting to try to hurt an ENFJ. That's simply too easy; like taking candy from a deaf, blind baby with no arms.
    Real classy. Yes, clearly the other person is the one who needs to change.

  8. #58
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    OK here is a point you seem to be missing.. and as an INFP you ought to understand this on some level.
    I don't think I am charming, people are just charmed by me sometimes.. how do I control that??
    See to ask me to change, is to ask me to be inauthentic, and that I believe, is where you might finally understand.. I hope.

    Agreed.

    There's a difference between doing it on purpose, which can be fun if all parties know what's going on, and just being told not to be yourself coz you offend/charm others

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
    I think the lady doth protest too much....

    Really, just be direct and honest. My favorite line is "I don't think of you that way," and anything akin. It makes things clear as day, so if there is any confusion after that point the responsibility won't be your own.

    Take responsibility for your actions, people.
    I've learned to make it clear within the first convo I have with others that I'm taken. That I'm very happy that way. And people still blame you afterwards when you 'charm' them. Give ENFJs a break already. Their strenght is their charm, and their love for others. Let them be themselves, without expecting and assuming things, just coz they're kind to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blown Ghost View Post
    Uh, sorry but I think your perspective on this is all backwards. It is the less aware, less experienced, or less developed person who needs to adapt and take on more responsibility. It's very ignorant and senseless to expect the "haves" to regress themselves just so the "have-nots" don't have to feel insecure. In my experience, it is always the former who is compromising and sacrificing and the latter who just plain "sucks" (in many meanings of the word) because they don't know better.

    In fact, understanding and accepting where one is immature or weak to such high standards is how one gets to be many of these qualities you consider to be negative. Normally I wouldn't do this check yo'self before you wreck yo'self bit, but I feel the need to set the record straight here lest some sensitive but not yet strong ENFJ actually thinks there is yet something else they need to improve on if they act like you describ


    You might want to re-read the first post. The "offender" cycles between charisma, focus on others, support, kindness, and withdrawl out of careful consideration. As far as we know, the "offendee" here complains about everyone rather than everyone complaining about the offender. Let's observe the true colors of the offendee by how he/she chooses to respond to what they consider to be less than optimal social circumstances.

    Exhibit A:



    Real classy. Yes, clearly the other person is the one who needs to change.
    I wouldn't have put it this bluntly, but yeah, I agree.

    Though I admit that you have to be sensitive to the impact you have on others, there's a line where the other person has to babysit his own emotions as well. Being kind and getting along with others does not make a love interest.

    Personally, Thessaly, I'd need more info to figure out who was in fact out of line, or who's responsibility it was, so I'll refrain from commenting on that specific situation. For that matter, I think your comment shows insight and I appreciate that you wanted to share it with others, so they can learn from it as well. It's something you can use though to navigate the emotional world next time, to adjust your expectations in accordance to what this situation has taught you.


    In general, I find that people find it easy to blame someone else for the way they feel. The only person who controls how you feel, and who can regulate it, is yourself. Yes, you can be impacted by others, but that is your choice, and it is possible to get a handle on that. For that matter, you'll never be able to make *everyone* 'behave' emotionally, so you're better off learning how to navigate these situations.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Ah yes, the "yo-yo effect" is what I like to call it..... I don't think these ENFJs are consciously aware of it. Often, these are rather insecure ENFJs looking for validation - once they get some, they let go because there was never any serious intention & they truly do not want to lead you on. However, once they start feeling down they'll reel you in again for an ego boost. This is NOT characteristic of all ENFJs, but common enough that patterns seem to be noted by many who've dealt with ENFJs....



    This is one of those over-simplified, cliche statements that REALLY annoys me. It completely removes responsibility from a person for their treatment of another person. People are also responsible for how they behave, what they say, and how they continue to deal with another person once they are aware of how it affects them. If you go around screaming at people & can't figure out why they all get upset & don't like you, then there is something wrong with you. You've affected them, and you certainly bear some responsibility.
    No it's not.. I can't make you love me.. I can't make anybody love me.
    I am not saying my behavior is not my responsibility. I am saying Your feelings are not my responsibility.
    Having someone tell me to tone it down because they can't control how they feel is an incredibly hard position to be in .. and I think I have explained myself well in this thread and what the difference is.

    I just can't turn the charm on or off. I am just being who I am .
    I do not have a responsibility to alter my personality for anyone. And I control my behavior already, but that is my only responsibility.

    I like you , can you please stop being you so I don't like you anymore, See it hurts that you are you and that is just not fair, unless you like me back.

    Please.. either we are not talking about the same thing.. or something is really wrong here.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Blown Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Though I admit that you have to be sensitive to the impact you have on others, there's a line where the other person has to babysit his own emotions as well. Being kind and getting along with others does not make a love interest.
    I used to think so, but not as much anymore. In the situation described, when I am being sensitive towards the person's emotional condition they tended to file it under their "evidence he has special feelings about me". Not every time, but enough that I began to think the problem is ultimately that they are entering into our closer interactions looking to confirm whatever they want to believe. Now I tend to be so blunt that some people have called me cruel, however, I suffer in having to do such a thing to someone I like (but not like-like!) so that they suffer shortly but ultimately less.

    It's kind of sad, actually. I wish it weren't the case, but it just seems a lot of people only take sensibility and sensitivity for granted to the point of abuse. I know that ultimately, whether the other person wants to accept it or not, if they aren't bleeding then they're gonna be fine, and that has helped me to use a little healthy harshness.

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