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  1. #1
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Default What does your word mean?

    I've noticed a few other INFJs with the following behavior...

    To not say anything unless one really means it. A person with few words. One who understates. Word of honor. What is said is what one meant. One whose words are binding.

    Starter questions (open to all types):

    It's an archaic notion, word of honor.

    Do you believe in or follow the principle of "word of honor"

    If so, why is honor so important?

    It seems like for people who believe in this, they often do not readily trust others. There is a tendency to question the intent behind other people's actions. Is that true or not in your case? Why?

    If you do not, why? Is the notion out of date? Foolishness?

    What do you think makes a person more (or less) likely to follow it?

    Are there any particular types that seems to you to take that principle to heart?

    And whatever else you can come up with related to this... open floor ^^

  2. #2
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    I seldom promise something, unless I am sure I can keep it.

    Breaking a word makes me feel that I've failed, simply. Perhaps it is archaic, but I don't understand why bother to give the illusion of faith if there wasn't any intended. Trust once broken is irrepairable to me. I'm likely to discount someone who doesn't keep their word. I'm likely to discount me if I don't keep mine if it was given in seriousness.

    It is for that reason I've never told any guy I loved them unless I was sure, and I've never really been sure.

  3. #3
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    I don't know if I could be described as a person of few words. Those who know me well would say I use far too many words, I suspect. Those who don't know me well would perhaps say I use too few, but I don't engage with them enough to be sure.

    I also don't know about understating. I am quite comfortable with hyperbole in casual conversation, but when I'm expressing something that might create expectation for my behavior in someone else, I do think I am very careful to mean what I say.

    It's an archaic notion, word of honor.

    Do you believe in or follow the principle of "word of honor"

    If so, why is honor so important?
    I don't know if I believe in some idea of honor or word of honor. It's important to me to mean what I say not because of some ideal, but rather for emotional reasons. I don't like to let people down. If I've created expectation in others, then I can't bear to experience their pain and disappointment in me if I fail that expectation. So I'm very careful about what sort of expectations I create when I have any control over it.

    It seems like for people who believe in this, they often do not readily trust others. There is a tendency to question the intent behind other people's actions. Is that true or not in your case? Why?
    While I don't depend on some notion of honor, I do have some difficulty trusting others. I find that in casual or superficial relations I can more easily grant a measure of what seems trust, but really is probably just a lack of investment in any potential failure to meet my expectations. This is in part because my expectations of people in general are very low. So people generally meet them. Once I begin to get closer to a person, my emotions are more at stake, and my investment in their behavior becomes greater. I begin to seem more obviously distrustful at this stage. I don't think I really am, but I am feeling more intensely the conflict between my need for the person I'm engaged with to not harm me and my expectation that people will fail me. It is in this stage that I begin to seem more obviously distrustful because my need for them to be there for me begins to be expressed along with my expectation that they will eventually fail me. In order to get past this stage, the person I'm engaged with has to consistently defy my expectation that I will be failed before I can overcome my tendency and build a new model of positive expectation for this particular person.

    At least that's how I have tended to experience my attitude of distrust. I'm not sure if there's any relationship there between my tendency to want to make sure I mean what I say to others or not?

    Is the notion out of date? Foolishness?
    I don't think it's a notion with an expiration date and I think it tends to have good effect when exercised, so I wouldn't call it foolishness either. I tend not to appreciate a real obvious expression of behaving with "honor" because I prefer expression to be more natural than some sort of "paint-by-numbers" code, but that's just a personal preference. People who tend to hold a certain code that they behave by tend to be experienced by me as too stilted in expression for me to feel comfortable with.

    What do you think makes a person more (or less) likely to follow it?
    Maybe a person aware of the more base desires of nature who feels need of a structured code to guide their behavior in more positive ways?

    As I consider it, perhaps it's that awareness of base desires of nature seen in oneself that then translates out into distrustful expectations of others. Perhaps that's the connection between those who hold to an idea of honor and those distrustful of others.

    Are there any particular types that seems to you to take that principle to heart?
    ???

    I knew a likely INTP or ISTP who seemed to appreciate these kinds of internal structures to live by. I don't know why either of these types in particular might manifest in an appreciation of a code like this though.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  4. #4

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    I would like to give my word of honor from time to time, but I don't trust myself to keep it.

    For this reason, I tend to not give my word.

    I hate it when people ask for it.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  5. #5
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    I seldom promise something, unless I am sure I can keep it.

    Breaking a word makes me feel that I've failed, simply. Perhaps it is archaic, but I don't understand why bother to give the illusion of faith if there wasn't any intended. Trust once broken is irrepairable to me. I'm likely to discount someone who doesn't keep their word. I'm likely to discount me if I don't keep mine if it was given in seriousness.

    It is for that reason I've never told any guy I loved them unless I was sure, and I've never really been sure.
    The illusion of faith is important to people.

    When you give your word you are determined to keep it.
    You fool yourself as well as you fool the other.

    Promises are more often broken than kept.
    Not intentionally.

  6. #6
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The illusion of faith is important to people.

    When you give your word you are determined to keep it.
    You fool yourself as well as you fool the other.

    Promises are more often broken than kept.
    Not intentionally.
    That's why I rarely give them.

    If we didn't have the illusion of faith, what'd we cling to.

  7. #7
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tovlo View Post
    I don't know if I believe in some idea of honor or word of honor. It's important to me to mean what I say not because of some ideal, but rather for emotional reasons. I don't like to let people down. If I've created expectation in others, then I can't bear to experience their pain and disappointment in me if I fail that expectation. So I'm very careful about what sort of expectations I create when I have any control over it.
    An emotional aspect. Of course. So this is another example of people doing the same thing but for different reasons. Yet on the outside... they look exactly the same.

    While I don't depend on some notion of honor, I do have some difficulty trusting others. I find that in casual or superficial relations I can more easily grant a measure of what seems trust, but really is probably just a lack of investment in any potential failure to meet my expectations. This is in part because my expectations of people in general are very low.
    Low expectations for other people. *nods* I do that myself. It's rather easy to trust them on things that you don't mind if they break it. For things that you value... it's much more difficult.

    At least that's how I have tended to experience my attitude of distrust. I'm not sure if there's any relationship there between my tendency to want to make sure I mean what I say to others or not?
    Can it be related to the need for a least some sort of consistency in your life? You can't control other peoples... but you can for yourself. So even though other people might not mean what they say, at least you can do it for yourself... something like that?

    I don't think it's a notion with an expiration date and I think it tends to have good effect when exercised, so I wouldn't call it foolishness either. I tend not to appreciate a real obvious expression of behaving with "honor" because I prefer expression to be more natural than some sort of "paint-by-numbers" code, but that's just a personal preference. People who tend to hold a certain code that they behave by tend to be experienced by me as too stilted in expression for me to feel comfortable with.
    A code... any code can become overly rigid. What about if that's just the way the person naturally is? In that it's a part of the person. Would you feel more comfortable with it?


    Maybe a person aware of the more base desires of nature who feels need of a structured code to guide their behavior in more positive ways?

    As I consider it, perhaps it's that awareness of base desires of nature seen in oneself that then translates out into distrustful expectations of others. Perhaps that's the connection between those who hold to an idea of honor and those distrustful of others.
    Interesting thought... rules to tame the inner beast. I'll have to think on that.


    I knew a likely INTP or ISTP who seemed to appreciate these kinds of internal structures to live by. I don't know why either of these types in particular might manifest in an appreciation of a code like this though.
    IXTPs? It seems to me like one of the last types to follow such a thing... but well... They are Ti dominant. And logical codes do seem to be tied to that... or Fi? I'm not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Promises are more often broken than kept.
    Not intentionally.
    No, which is why people who go by the rule make very few promises.

  8. #8
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    I seldom promise something, unless I am sure I can keep it.
    The same. Sometimes I don't even make the promise, even if I'm 95% sure, because I never know what might come up that would force me into a situation where it is better to break a promise than continue ahead.

    I also loathe being inconsistent.

    Breaking a word makes me feel that I've failed, simply. Perhaps it is archaic, but I don't understand why bother to give the illusion of faith if there wasn't any intended. Trust once broken is irreparable to me. I'm likely to discount someone who doesn't keep their word. I'm likely to discount me if I don't keep mine if it was given in seriousness.
    And what use is a vocal promise? If you're a liar, you'll lie. If you're a truthteller, you'll tell the truth...regardless of the promise you might make. it's more to convince someone else of your honesty, than to bind yourself... although it does become binding if you value consistency.

    It is for that reason I've never told any guy I loved them unless I was sure, and I've never really been sure.


    I have always had trouble with the "I love you's" because of that too.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #9
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    I usually avoid making binding promises to do something in particular in the future... I often end up being forced into breaking them by circumstances if I do, and feeling terrible about it, possibly even suffering some kind of penalty. But if I tell you that I'll try to do something or that I want to do it, I usually find a way.

    Although I do seem to be able to keep "negative promises." Meaning if I promise to not take a particular action, I can usually avoid it.

  10. #10
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I always mean what I promise to do 100% when I make the promise- though sometimes things change and the promise is not kept.

    I'm never insincere- I simply live in the moment with little reflection on possible changes in the future

    I've impulsively told someone I loved them because I loved them RIGHT THEN so much that I felt compelled to do so- the love didn't last

    I always intend to keep the promise 100% and if it's an important thing to a friend I will try my hardest to keep it- emotional promises are my achilles heel though- they aren't based in logic so I have less understanding of them and WHY I was dumb enough to make them in the first place!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

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