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  1. #11
    *ears perk up* wolfmaiden14's Avatar
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    To not say anything unless one really means it. A person with few words. One who understates. Word of honor. What is said is what one meant. One whose words are binding.

    I think it's part of that whole INFJ "keeping our reactions private" thing. If I feel the need to externalize something, then there's damn well gonna be a reason for it and I've thought it through several times in my head, so yeah.. I mean it! I understate, because if I try to explain fully people don't understand, or just loose interest... or give me funny looks.

    Do you believe in or follow the principle of "word of honor"

    If so, why is honor so important?


    Because it takes many people with a strong foundation to accomplish great things. "Honor" is that foundation. Being able to rely on one another to do what they are asked, follow through with what they say, or admit what they are not capable of, allows time to be effectively delegated and gives people the peace of mind to focus on their own part. It also cuts down on resentful, painful and therefore usually unproductive feelings and behaviors that occur due to broken trust. Extending this "honor" to other people and into trivial matters, even when unnecessary or even counter-intuitive, perpetuates good habits and sets good examples.

    This also VERY much applies on a more personal level. I couldn't have said it better(Thanks Tovlo. XD):
    I don't like to let people down. If I've created expectation in others, then I can't bear to experience their pain and disappointment in me if I fail that expectation. So I'm very careful about what sort of expectations I create when I have any control over it.
    This is also why I avoid promises. Making them is like saying you can predict the future. When I do make one, I make one to myself too; to trust that at one time it was worth making, so I need to uphold it even if I don't remember why. I broke a promise once and I can't bear to relive the pain it caused ever again. The only promise I tend to make now is to try my best.

    But to me, honor is still more than just "your word." Because whether you make promises or not, people still have expectations of you and can be let down if you don't fulfill them(Again, like Tovlo said). Of course, you can't let others dictate how to live your life or make choices for you either. It's less about what you do or say specifically, and more about setting a standard for yourself and consistently living up to it, so people can count on that from you. Sometimes it sucks for them, because their hopes outreach what you want/can do, so you have to tell them no, and sometimes it sucks for you because you have to work a little harder to reach a previously set standard under new circumstances.. but it's a nice balance that way.

    It seems like for people who believe in this, they often do not readily trust others. There is a tendency to question the intent behind other people's actions. Is that true or not in your case? Why?

    I'm rather back and forth with this, especially since I'm really good at pegging intentions. I'm untrusting in the sense that I just don't associate with anyone who rubs me the wrong way at the start. If I actually do engage in some sort of relations with someone, or they keep talking to me anyway, I usually trust what they say a bit too quickly, but don't trust actual behaviors. I know how hard I have to work to stick to my "sense of honor" and my general observation is that most people aren't willing to make the sacrifices it takes to be any sort of consistent with it. A nice little glitch happens when people say false things about their personality(especially when they don't realize it's not true)... I often get caught in a trap of believing it, and it takes me awhile to realize that their actions don't match up.

    I guess I give people benefit of the doubt, but won't let them get close to me until they prove themselves, or until after my intuition finishes scanning them for any red flags. Then, I'll have unending faith in them, even if they don't deserve it.

    What do you think makes a person more (or less) likely to follow it?

    The examples they have seen, the standards they have for themselves, their level of faith in humanity, the influence of those around them, the sacrifices they're willing to make (or not) to get to their goals, if they have any goals at all, their ability to see the results of their actions.. several things really. But it all comes down to personal choice. I can't see into these other people's heads or lives, so I don't know.

    Are there any particular types that seems to you to take that principle to heart?

    This was really hard to choose. As I said, it's all about personal choice, regardless of type. But to guess which ones would put dependability as a priority choice backed by/or the determination to see things through?

    ESFJ, ISTJ and INTP

    As for the "I love you" comments, I REALLY don't say that unless I mean it. Even if I think I do, but really don't, I'll choke on the words when I try to say it.
    Forming characters! Whose? Our own or others? Both. And in that momentous fact lies the peril and responsibility of our existence. - Elihu Burritt

    Member of the Maverick's Biker Club - Now crashing through walls instead of just..walking into them.

  2. #12
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    It's an archaic notion, word of honor.
    Do you believe in or follow the principle of "word of honor" If so, why is honor so important?
    I've never called myself a pleaser. As a matter, unless I think highly of you for some reason, I really don't care what the majority of people think or say about me until they disturb my peace. That being said It's almost a point of pride to do what I say I'm going to do. I enjoy being the guy that doesn't flake out on people. Maybe cause I know what it's like to be the guy who's anxiously waiting for something and for it not to come. I'd hate to be that guy.

    Also like ygolo I believe it rude for someone to ask for your word. I don't know why but for some reason it pisses me off, It's as if I'm not doing it because I promised anymore, but because someone is forcing me to.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    I've noticed a few other INFJs with the following behavior...

    To not say anything unless one really means it. A person with few words. One who understates. Word of honor. What is said is what one meant. One whose words are binding.

    Starter questions (open to all types):

    It's an archaic notion, word of honor.

    Do you believe in or follow the principle of "word of honor"

    If so, why is honor so important?
    I personally do not make empty promises. I do not make promises unless I fully intend to keep them. It's not that I am afraid to hurt someone's feelings, but rather because I want people to know they can count on my word. It is an honor thing, all about reputation. I sometimes say more by ommission. If I do/don't agree with what someone is saying, I may just keep silent. In the same vein, if someone asks me a question, I will answer it as truthfully as I can. If I do not know the answer I will say so and then find the correct information for them. Among my family and friends, I am the "go to" person, they know I will not give them a bullshit answer.

    It seems like for people who believe in this, they often do not readily trust others. There is a tendency to question the intent behind other people's actions. Is that true or not in your case? Why?
    I have been told I have trust issues :rolli: , maybe it's because I have found that the only person I can count on not to let me down is myself. In my interactions with others I do tend to read between the lines. I think of other things they have said, done and their body language. I weigh that in with what they are saying to gauge their honesty/intent.


    What do you think makes a person more (or less) likely to follow it?

    Are there any particular types that seems to you to take that principle to heart?

    And whatever else you can come up with related to this... open floor ^^
    Maybe sometimes people try to please others or don't want to hurt their feelings. Maybe sometimes people are looking to profit by the exchange and say whatever it takes.
    "One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching"I(95%) N(53%) T(84%) J(58%)
    5 sp/sx/so varient Global 5: sloan RCOEI; r|C|oei; primary Calm; R(66%)C(76%)O(58%)E(66%)I(62%)

  4. #14
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    That's why I rarely give them.

    If we didn't have the illusion of faith, what'd we cling to.
    Yes. Illusion is gold.

    Once I had a girl friend. I did not understand I had a girlfriend. But she understood she had a boyfriend.

    She started to plan the engagement party. The date was set. Sunday morning. The place was set: Her parents' summer villa. All the important people were to come.

    Sunday came. I rose early and took the cab to the airport. Why, there they had the only cafe open in town.
    What is the morning good for- without coffee?
    I walked back to town. It was a long walk. I was not in a hurry.

    In the late afternoon I dropped in Richard's Pub. They had the telly. It was the day of the swimming competition.

    I was watching the swimming competition when she rushed in. She yelled at me! Something incomprehensible about not being in my own engagement party. Then she left, furious.

    I was surprised. Why was she angry?

    It took me a decade to understand it.

    Her illusion was broken. Her wish to see us married one day.
    She had been so happy.

    If she had not arranged the stupid engagement party she could have been happy many more years to come.

    What do we learn from this unfortunate episode?
    Do not arrange any rash things.

  5. #15
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Yes. Illusion is gold.

    Once I had a girl friend. I did not understand I had a girlfriend. But she understood she had a boyfriend.

    She started to plan the engagement party. The date was set. Sunday morning. The place was set: Her parents' summer villa. All the important people were to come.

    Sunday came. I rose early and took the cab to the airport. Why, there they had the only cafe open in town.
    What is the morning good for- without coffee?
    I walked back to town. It was a long walk. I was not in a hurry.

    In the late afternoon I dropped in Richard's Pub. They had the telly. It was the day of the swimming competition.

    I was watching the swimming competition when she rushed in. She yelled at me! Something incomprehensible about not being in my own engagement party. Then she left, furious.

    I was surprised. Why was she angry?

    It took me a decade to understand it.

    Her illusion was broken. Her wish to see us married one day.
    She had been so happy.

    If she had not arranged the stupid engagement party she could have been happy many more years to come.

    What do we learn from this unfortunate episode?
    Do not arrange any rash things.
    I found the story funny, but I feel really bad for the girl.

    Or another lesson. Tell the guy precisely in his face, that this is an engagement party, please be at my parent's place at 9am, where we will declare to everyone our intent to be married. Don't assume you can read someone's truth.

    Perhaps the fact that you didn't realise meant it wasn't an illusion you shared, simply. Blind hope feeds on illusion, isn't it. So the fall is doubly worse later: first the illusion, then facing the reality which has became irrepairable. *sad*

  6. #16
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Can it be related to the need for a least some sort of consistency in your life? You can't control other peoples... but you can for yourself. So even though other people might not mean what they say, at least you can do it for yourself... something like that?
    I don't know about the consistency factor, but sure, I try not to be very concerned about how others are conducting their lives and try to concern myself primarily with my own behavior.

    A code... any code can become overly rigid. What about if that's just the way the person naturally is? In that it's a part of the person. Would you feel more comfortable with it?
    Yep, if it feels like a natural flow of expression, I think I'm more comfortable with it. Though I guess in thinking about it, while I have no blanket negative judgement against those who would operate from a code of honor, I just personally enjoy more those who would operate driven from a place of concern for the other rather than concern for some structure of behavior. I mean the structure of behavior is probably in place because it honors the needs of the other, and my tendency to feel concern for the needs of others probably shakes out into a somewhat consistent pattern of behavior, but I guess I just personally enjoy the company more of those who engage with the dominance of concern for the other being closer to the surface than the dominance of concern for the structure of behavior.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  7. #17
    Senior Member tovlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfmaiden14 View Post
    Of course, you can't let others dictate how to live your life or make choices for you either. It's less about what you do or say specifically, and more about setting a standard for yourself and consistently living up to it, so people can count on that from you. Sometimes it sucks for them, because their hopes outreach what you want/can do, so you have to tell them no, and sometimes it sucks for you because you have to work a little harder to reach a previously set standard under new circumstances.. but it's a nice balance that way.
    I have learned not to be so concerned about expectations people develop on on their own for me. If I have not expressly promised something to someone and they still have an expectation of me, I consider that at some level it is their responsibility to deal with any resulting disappointment. If my desire and ability in behavior happens to match up and meet their expectations, great, but if not, I try not to lose any sleep over it if I don't happen to meet their self-created expectations. Sometimes I might reach out and try to correct their expectations to more realistic levels, but I don't feel compelled to.
    "We don't see things as they are,
    we see things as we are."
    ...Anais Nin

  8. #18
    Senior Member marm's Avatar
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    My parents are TJs. They're both very honest and dependable, and generally morally responsible. I'd lie as a kid to get out of trouble, and they drilled the ideal of 'truth' and 'honesty' deep into my psyche. Its haunted me ever since. I finally realized sincerity was more important than honesty or so that is how it makes sense to my Fi. My parents taught me that trust is built on honesty, but I've come to understand that I wasn't honest with them as a kid because I didn't trust that they understood me.

    I rarely give my word becasue there isn't much in life that necessitates it. However, if someone I don't care about or respect asks for my word or for an honest answer, then, if need be, I'll feel little compunction about lying to them especially if they're an authority figure. Even so, telling the truth comes natural to me because I'm mostly lacking in guile. I usually mean whatever I say and if I say something I'll try to convince myself that I mean it or else it will continually bug me until I rectify it at least in my own mind.

    I am severely bothered when someone I've connected well with feels that I've broken my word or otherwise betrayed their trust. There is no worse judgment that someone can make of me. I don't blab secrets, but I can forget how much some people are concerned about what others know. I've had people be mad at me for telling something they considered private when I had no idea it was of signicance. Unless someone tells me something is a secret, I don't think of it as a secret.

    For instance, my brother and his wife smoke. I used to smoke and apparently I told my parents about them smoking not realizing they were trying to hide it. I could care less that my parents knew I smoked at the time even though they got a bit worked up about it. For the most part, I don't care if people know my deep dark secrets. From my perspective, my brother had no right to be mad at me because he had never told me that it was a senseitive subject. It wasn't my fault that he was ashamed and wanted to hide his sense of shame. Certainly, if I had given my word to not tell my parents, then I wouldn't have.

    Somethings are more clear cut. If I get the sense that someone wants me to keep something a secret, then I will even if they don't say so. But I don't assume that everything I know about someone is a secret to be kept from everyone else. In my brother's case, he is sensitive about many things. So, trying to figure out what is a secret for him is difficult because he wouldn't want to admit that what bothers him actually bothers him. He has an self-image that he presents the world. Secrets for him can include quite a bit. From his perspective, I shouldn't tell my parents anything about him because parents are the enemy. He had a much harder time with them by far than I did.

    When I was severely depressed right after highschool, I was extremely honest with my parents. I've never been so upfront at any other point in my life. I held nothing back. I took their Te principle of honesty and turned it into an Fi absolutistic ideal. Its been a decade since that time, but my mom said a funny to me about a year ago. She said that there are some things mothers don't need to know about their sons. Yes, victory! That is what she gets for having warped my poor Fi mind as a child.

    Has anyone ever had someone ask for your word not to be honest with them?

  9. #19
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade View Post
    My parents are TJs. They're both very honest and dependable, and generally morally responsible. I'd lie as a kid to get out of trouble, and they drilled the ideal of 'truth' and 'honesty' deep into my psyche. Its haunted me ever since. I finally realized sincerity was more important than honesty or so that is how it makes sense to my Fi. My parents taught me that trust is built on honesty, but I've come to understand that I wasn't honest with them as a kid because I didn't trust that they understood me.
    I believe that. You can't know if something is absolutely true, but you can know your own motives for saying something. You can have good motives and mean what you say, but you can't always guarantee that something has definitely or actually will happen.

  10. #20
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    I don't know that "honor" holds any significant meaning to me.

    I've been guilty of hyperbole many times, using superlatives to express an XXL feeling.

    But I think that trust is a crucial ingredient in relationships. If I can't be trusted, what good am I? In my own eyes, if I can't be trusted, I'm more or less worthless. So I am very careful to think things through before I say them, following out the possible consequences to make sure I'm not being careless with another person's trust.

    People don't just trust you to keep your word; they trust that what you tell them is the truth as far as you know it. They trust you not to deceive them. They trust you to be fair and genuine. A relationship with a fake person is no more useful than a relationship with a stuffed animal.

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