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[MBTI General] A frightening epiphany....

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Except for my last relationship, I have had somewhat of a trend dating guys who were, more, or less, entirely lacking in depth.

I have always been, what one would call, a "deep" person. I think deeply, and I feel deeply, and that's just the way I operate. Sensitive, and thorough, yes, I am both these things...

Back to the topic at hand, the sad revelation I've had, which is... For some strange reason I have comfortably found myself in romantic relationships with men who were neither emotionally, nor mentally as deep as I. Our relationship would consist of eating, sleeping, and sexually pleasing each other. A coexistence sans any mental stimulation.

My ex happened to be the deepest guy I've ever been with by a longshot, but he only thought deeply, and was rather lacking in the "Feelings/Emotions" department.

I wonder what it would be like to be with another "Philosopher Poet", would it be like fucking yourself? Would it be utterly exhausting, and therefore ultimately not worth it?

I guess I do view men like dogs, but in the best sense, that is that they're loyal, eager to please, and relatively simple.

I don't know what the point of this thread is, exactly, perhaps to ask for other's opinions on the matter, or perhaps more honestly to ask, is something wrong with this?

Can a relationship consist of, and persist with two NFs?
 

alcea rosea

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
3,658
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ENFP
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7w6
Can a relationship consist of, and persist with two NFs?

I have no real experience but I would say that with 2 similar personalities it would be that you have double strengths and double weaknesses. So you would understand each other easily but not that much growing up in sense of learning from different person. Lots of comfortable feeling in this relationship I might say.

When in relationship with your opposite you would have equal strengths and weaknesses but a lot of need for understanding a different person + lots of things to learn. So lots of growing + understanding needed.

Did this make any sense?
 

mippus

you are right
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
906
MBTI Type
Intp
Enneagram
5w6
I don't know if it is of any help...
I know quite a few couples where both partners have very similar types, and many are succesful. Strangely enough, the best couples I think of now all have the same type apart from E/I, so INFP and ENFP, ENTP and INTP, ESFP and ISFP, and now that I list them, they are all P's.
Hm, strange coincidences, probably of no value at all :)
 

arcticangel02

To the top of the world
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
892
MBTI Type
eNFP
The ideal type for an ENFP in a romantic relationship is apparently the INTJ, so the NT must be good for us. ;)
 

tovlo

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
248
MBTI Type
INFJ
Can a relationship consist of, and persist with two NFs?

Absolutely! My experience is that it can be amazing.

However, I think people are a lot more than their MBTI type. I don't think every NF would be ecstatically happy in relationship with another NF as I am. I don't know that every other NF would value what I value in relationship.

I guess I do view men like dogs, but in the best sense, that is that they're loyal, eager to please, and relatively simple.

I think it's likely we would enjoy the company of very different sorts of men despite both being NF. :)

I don't know what the point of this thread is, exactly, perhaps to ask for other's opinions on the matter, or perhaps more honestly to ask, is something wrong with this?

I'd like to address a different question. Instead of questioning if something is wrong with this, I'd like to ask if you feel your current approach is taking you to places you desire to be? If it is, then I say continue on. If it's not, perhaps it's time to try a different path.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
I guess I do view men like dogs, but in the best sense, that is that they're loyal, eager to please, and relatively simple.

I could never go for a simple man. I like complexity and high imagination. I have been married many years to a INFJ. It is not like being with myself. He's different from me in enough ways so that it is not that way.

You have to please yourself though. No one else can say whether your way or right or wrong for you but you.
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
8,975
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GONE
Hm, from reading your response in the 'lapdance' thread and knowing you referred to yourself as a 'misanthrope', maybe you

1) Don't have high expectations and make them come true? On some level you dont' expect a man to be deep and so you don't seek out someone who will match you in this way.

2) You don't actually want a 'deep' man. Perhaps you fear the intimacy on some level or don't want to be challenged or ???

3) After having one such relationship, you just fell into a pattern by repeating and emulating the behaviors that netted you the first guy?

Also, practically speaking it could also be affected by your age and where you usually meet guys. I know it's been said elsewhere on another thread, but women mature much faster than men on the emotional/self-reflective tip. And even when the guy is mature in this way, I think men really do deal with emotions differently. It takes certain kinds of men who are already deep-thinkers or sensitive or thoughtful, like artists, activists, social workers, you know the type (or maybe not from your dating history).

Also, even though you said you were a misanthrope and deep, you are still an ENFP, and ENFPs generally have at the very least, a silly or even crazy or wild side. You mentioned you got on the dais and stripped for kicks on vacation once, that kinda says to me you are adventurous, spontaneous, and like to have fun. So it makes sense that you attract guys who like these qualities in you, but don't see your other 'deep' side to you or themselves shy away from what you consider depth and just like to have fun. Perhaps you assume they won't enjoy or be able to go to the level or kinds of conversation that you want to have and so you moderate this side of you around them. Perhaps you unknowingly seek introverts and listeners to complement your extroversion and talking inclination and your previous bf's were more than happy to do just that. It's not a bad arrangement at all, but if you want something else, I guess some kind of shake up is in order.

Just some rambling suggestions.

If you are single and dating now, how are you now going about getting the kind of guy you want?
 

armstrongvk12

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
136
MBTI Type
ENxJ
Can a relationship consist of, and persist with two NFs?
I'm not an NF (I sort of vacillate), but I did date more than one NT....in fact.....I'm guessing that most of them were NTs. Even though more than one of them was mentally stimulating, the relationships didn't seem to involve too much emotion or feeling. I suppose at the time, I was fine with the "glossing over" of that area of my life. Now that area seems to be more important to me. It seems like this would be true with two NFs. I remember reading that Ns....NEED another N, but NF and NT would allow you to support weaknesses in each other. I would never date a person who was opposite as it is too much drama to constantly try to see things from a perspective that you don't understand. I do not believe that relationships should be that hard...because they aren't with your friends. Otherwise...they wouldn't be your friends. I can't imagine being with an SJ...pulling me down to earth like a stone, and unknowingly shattering my dreams and ideals.

I do think that there are MANY men (and women for that matter) that are really, really simple....and they just want to have a simple life with friends, sex and some fun. These people don't ponder much and do even less in terms of seeking truth, knowledge, changing the world, etc. But there are some men who spend a lot of time thinking about how they feel, volunteering (on their own), etc. The trouble is...where are they? If you find out where they are....let me know...cause I've been looking for them all my life.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
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BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Talking just about real-life relationships:

One of the best marriages I know is an INFP/INFJ pairing. He is very INFP, she is an INFJ with a low Ni (closer to S), but they're like the "dream marriage" even having gone through some very hard times together (from external pressures, not internal ones).

But many of the INFJ women I know seem to marry SP men. I don't know what the appeal is, although I know Se is the inferior and maybe they just really admire the Se qualities of these men or find them attractive/exciting in some way? They seem to enjoy being the stable/anchor force, and being with an SP male gives them more control over the relationship because the males tends to let them decide more of the particulars. INFPs seem more apt to want to find another "dreamer" type to be with.

If I did ever go through the dating and marriage thing again, though, I would be looking for an N mate.
 

armstrongvk12

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Dec 26, 2007
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If I did ever go through the dating and marriage thing again, though, I would be looking for an N mate.
Thank you for your insight. It is helpful to know that there are many NTs (and I'm sure NFs too) that are looking for the N factor. There is something about another N...and the deeper conversations that I have...which cannot be duplicated with S people.

There are times when the S factor is a turn off to me, especially when combined with J. In some way, I feel that this combination (even in friends) pulls me down and stifles my creativity....and I can't wait to go home and get away from them. :shock:
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
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Sep 7, 2007
Messages
3,553
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ENTJ
I had a similar problem few years ago.. I theoretically preferred intelligent women, but I only chose among extroverted, wild, fun impulsive types.. and I got disappointed. It's pretty easy to guess what went wrong.

When we're acting on our impulses and desires, we're not like a statistician who takes a random, unbiased sample from a population. Quite the contrary.

I still don't know what hidden, subconscious things I look for in a women I used to date. I do remember thinking that I chose the "best" so I should get the "best" - as in most fitting for me, best for relationship. It took a while to learn there was best1 and best2. What you look for and what you like when having it.
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
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Sep 11, 2007
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But there are some men who spend a lot of time thinking about how they feel, volunteering (on their own), etc. The trouble is...where are they? If you find out where they are....let me know...cause I've been looking for them all my life.

I think there are some on this forum. ;)

If you are looking for a concerned doer and feeler, go for Firemen! Hahaha.

I dunno if your request was rhetorical but I'll attempt to answer it anyway. :D

You can find sensitive, feeler types at poetry readings, community arts festivals, conferences, rallies, marches, certain types of lectures and film screenings, and gatherings. I guess it also depends on what kind of political orientation you are looking for.

Many of activist men (though not all, and I'm not painting with a broad rosy stroke because there are a lot of activist men who are NOT like this AT ALL) on the progressive tip are very much critical thinkers who are conscious of and explore their emotions and want to connect with others. At least compared to their peer group. In fact, a passion and willingness to work for social justice kinda necessitate that. At the very least, these kind of men are willing to try to be emotional and "deep".

If you are looking for more conservative emotionally in touch men, religious groups (especially youth group leaders, etc.) are a good bet. For more centrist or general humanitarian sided people, guys who volunteer at soup kitchens, who like nature, who work with children, EMTs, again social workers, sometimes teachers -- these would be good bets for a dating pool.

Honestly, I think I know one firehouse that does their grocery weekly around the same time at the same grocery store. Now if I had a hankerin to date me some fireman, you know where and when I'd be doing my food shopping!

You know that theory that the best place to pick up women is the grocery store and the best place to pick up guys is the hardware store? Gender stereotyping aside, go where the men (who you want to meet) are!
 

Priam

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Dec 20, 2007
Messages
272
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INTP
I gotta agree with CzeCze on this! You're going to find deep people in places that attract/require depth. I am, apparently, very deep. This assessment is based on the references of multiple friends, so I don't think I'm being presumptuous. This usually means I will not be found alone in a bar or dance club, places I consider very shallow entertainment. If I am there at all, it will be with a group of friends who I know I can enjoy and ignore the outside company. I am most likely to be open and looking at events that register a higher quantity of people who share my interests, whether that's a fundraising house party, a conference, or even simply reading the same book at a coffeehouse. I don't just want a pretty face, so I actively filter for the traits I want and need. There are certain values that my life has become shaped around, certain duties the are not a job and therefore do not end at 5PM on a weekday, and I need a partner who appreciates that.

Oh and we men are often simple, especially an INTP, but that does not equate with dumb or irrelevant. It really means I actively fight to streamline my life, cutting bullshit and drama to a minimum so that I can focus on things that really deserve my limited energy and time. My ENFP friend constantly reiterates that still waters run deep, and I think that's an apt phrase to describe the phenomenon.
 

armstrongvk12

New member
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
136
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I think there are some on this forum. ;)

If you are looking for a concerned doer and feeler, go for Firemen! Hahaha.

You can find sensitive, feeler types at poetry readings, community arts festivals, conferences, rallies, marches, certain types of lectures and film screenings, and gatherings. I guess it also depends on what kind of political orientation you are looking for.

Many of activist men (though not all, and I'm not painting with a broad rosy stroke because there are a lot of activist men who are NOT like this AT ALL) on the progressive tip are very much critical thinkers who are conscious of and explore their emotions and want to connect with others. At least compared to their peer group. In fact, a passion and willingness to work for social justice kinda necessitate that. At the very least, these kind of men are willing to try to be emotional and "deep".

If you are looking for more conservative emotionally in touch men, religious groups (especially youth group leaders, etc.) are a good bet. For more centrist or general humanitarian sided people, guys who volunteer at soup kitchens, who like nature, who work with children, EMTs, again social workers, sometimes teachers -- these would be good bets for a dating pool.

Honestly, I think I know one firehouse that does their grocery weekly around the same time at the same grocery store. Now if I had a hankerin to date me some fireman, you know where and when I'd be doing my food shopping!

You know that theory that the best place to pick up women is the grocery store and the best place to pick up guys is the hardware store? Gender stereotyping aside, go where the men (who you want to meet) are!

I laughed SO loud when I read your "fireman" comment because my first serious boyfriend that I lived with for 7 years was a fireman. He was great in so many ways, but not quite the intellectual I was looking for in terms of a "forever" relationship.

I am a teacher, but no prospects there as they are all married already. Yes to EVERYTHING above...except conservative minded (political and religious) men. I don't seem to get on with them too well....too controlling and I am too outspoken. Maybe an INFJ attorney??

Thank you so much for your help...now I just need to hire you as my dating coach! :yes:
 

armstrongvk12

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Dec 26, 2007
Messages
136
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I will not be found alone in a bar or dance club, places I consider very shallow entertainment....I actively fight to streamline my life, cutting bullshit and drama to a minimum so that I can focus on things that really deserve my limited energy and time. My ENFP friend constantly reiterates that still waters run deep, and I think that's an apt phrase to describe the phenomenon.
This describes me precisely!
 

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,771
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infp
The ideal type for an ENFP in a romantic relationship is apparently the INTJ, so the NT must be good for us. ;)

Well hold on, do YOU find the INTJ type attractive? It seems kind of silly to assume it must be a good fit because some websites say so, don't you think? Although, INTJ to some degree does resemble her ideal, but not totally. You can't really break down something like who you'd fall in love with into type, theres more to it than that, I think.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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11,429
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sx/so
The Brownings were an NFJ-NFP pairing and they were soul mates. So yes, I think two NFs together can definitely work. :yes: Not for me, but it does for my ENFP sister. She's not Fe dominant, so a Feeler man wouldn't be too much F for her (as it would for me).

As to dating men not as "deep" as you, I don't know that I understand as I haven't been able to become even remotely interested in a man who wasn't clever or in-questing. (Which is why I'm alone a lot, as all these men are already taken for obvious reasons.)
 

armstrongvk12

New member
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Dec 26, 2007
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136
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ENxJ
Well hold on, do YOU find the INTJ type attractive?
This is true. It matters whether or not you find them attractive...and of course whether or not they are attracted to you. My male INTJ friend could not function with a P...unless it was a REALLY weak P as he is TOO structured. Same with my male INFJ friend. They are both EXTREMELY "J." I also cannot function with a "P" and find myself doing better with a slight J....or I can function with a strong J..if I am really into him.

One of the worst relationships I have ever had was with an INTP which is supposed to be a fit for me according to some web sites. Not enough structure to the relationship and almost no feeling.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
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ENFP
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4w5
How funny, I was driving home trying to think of my ex's type, (for he adamantly refused to take the MBTI), and I came to the conclusion that he is an ISTP. Looking that temperament up on Wikipedia, the rather brief description reflected him quite well. He is on his way of becoming a master craftsmen, and by day, functions as a civil engineer....

So yeah, the only time I've experienced "true" love, was with an ISTP.
 
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