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[NF] NF Honesty?

ubee0173

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I am apparently incapable of lying, which is not actually a great thing. my husband informs me that if i dont want to tell the absolute truth i will word something in such a way that im telling the truth and making it sound like what someone wants to hear. if that makes any sense (and it probably doesnt.) If i am accused of lying, though, you will see a horrifying side of me that i like to pretend doesnt exsist. latley though i have come to realize that the truth always comes out, sometimes you just have to wait for everyone else to come around to the truth side of things.
 

Seymour

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I am apparently incapable of lying, which is not actually a great thing. my husband informs me that if i dont want to tell the absolute truth i will word something in such a way that im telling the truth and making it sound like what someone wants to hear. if that makes any sense (and it probably doesnt.) If i am accused of lying, though, you will see a horrifying side of me that i like to pretend doesnt exsist. latley though i have come to realize that the truth always comes out, sometimes you just have to wait for everyone else to come around to the truth side of things.

This approach sounds dreadfully familiar to me. I'm not proud of the fact that I can carefully phrase things to be technically true, while allowing others to continue to apply their own (mis)interpretations. This rarely ends well, so I try to squelch my tendencies on that front.

I don't claim to be incapable of lying, but I do find it fairly painful and try to avoid it when possible. I just have to remind myself to be direct, at times, rather than merely avoid technically lying.
 

Halla74

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This approach sounds dreadfully familiar to me. I'm not proud of the fact that I can carefully phrase things to be technically true, while allowing to continue to apply their own (mis)interpretations. This rarely ends well, so I try to squelch my tendencies on that front.

I don't claim to be incapable of lying, but I do find it fairly painful and try to avoid it when possible. I just have to remind myself to be direct, at times, rather than merely avoid technically lying.

You are correct, Brother Seymour.
It is better to be vaguely precise. :newwink:
 

Alexia

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Haha, I lie about really dumb stuff when I'm drunk.

Example: I spent the night with a guy friend the night before... The next night my mom calls me and I've had one too many shots of alcohol, she asked me where I slept and I'm like, "on his couch.", the next day I talk to her and she asked me about it, just out of curiosity and I say something and pretty much, flat out tell her I slept in his bed. But, yeah, I don't know it's always something really stupid that I would tell her sober. I don't know if it my conscious thinking, mom doesn't want to hear that.. or what. Lol, to add to it I'm 22, like it would matter, she wouldn't care anyway. And no, I'm not a drunk texter, but I will without thinking answer my phone.



I also tend to leave out facts instead of outright lying.
 
Last edited:

skylights

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imo, i'm honest when it really matters.

i white lie occasionally, mostly as a joke. exaggeration, pretending like i did something that i should have done and didn't, etc. i'm a great liar if i want to be though haha. i also see a pretty big difference between benevolent lying and malevolent lying. example: lying to cover up a surprise party versus lying to make someone embarrass themself.

Alexia said:
I also tend to leave out facts instead of outright lying.
ditto

to be honest (lol) i don't get the RAWRRR HONESTY RAWRRR thing. in fact, it bothers me a good deal, because i see it as a very oversimplified and rather stuck-up way of understanding the world. there are thousands of interpretations and there are thousands of truths, depending on how you look at things. i do not believe in one fundamental Truth. plus, your Truth might be a lie for all we know. remember when "the earth is flat" was Truth? truth seems so simple of a concept until you really look at it. it's much more complex underneath than so many people like to pretend.

to me, two things really matter:
  1. everyone needs to try to be up front most of the time for society to function. if we're all deceiving each other all the time things will break down and be completely counterproductive.
  2. not trying to deliberately harm anyone
 

tkae.

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I can lie, I just choose not to.

1.) Getting caught (when it happens) is more painful than it would have been to just tell the truth.
1.a.) On top of that, the necessary paranoia to maintain the lie isn't worth it even if I get away with the lie, so...
2.) Why lie? Communication lets emotions to openly flow between two people, and that's the only way anything can really ever get done in life.
3.) "Karma". 'Nuff said 'bout that...
4.) Being honest takes 1/2 the energy and 1/10 the time.
5.) It makes me feel cleaner inside.
 

Random Ness

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Nope. I do what needs to be done to best benefit 1. others and 2. me. Ironically enough that often includes telling to truth. But in some cases it means lying.

What about this situation? You are dependent upon someone for survival (money/food/shelter/either or/etc). But you are something or do something that the person you are dependent upon greatly disapproves. If you admit what you are/do, they will not let you depend on them anymore. Isn't it necessary to lie, even if it's a big one, in this situation?
 

angell_m

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lying to yourselves about lying, that's a nice way of saying it.
 

CrystalViolet

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Nope. I do what needs to be done to best benefit 1. others and 2. me. Ironically enough that often includes telling to truth. But in some cases it means lying.

What about this situation? You are dependent upon someone for survival (money/food/shelter/either or/etc). But you are something or do something that the person you are dependent upon greatly disapproves. If you admit what you are/do, they will not let you depend on them anymore. Isn't it necessary to lie, even if it's a big one, in this situation?

That one's easy, you just don't tell them. What they don't know can't hurt them.
I tend to lie by omission, and reprashing things so they are technically true. All humans lie, whether it be white lies, or what ever.

Having said that, I don't lie well. The truth is easiest. The only person I have ever lied to is my mother, only because she never could bare the truth. It's easiest not to talk to her, then I don't have to lie all the time. She never believed the truth any way, most of the time.
I prefer to be around people who I can be honest with, no matter how it hurts or dissapoints them. It's not issue with most people.
 

tibby

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I'm always questioning my motives. I feel like in the past, in the situation, I was acting upon authenticity, but later on started thinking what if I was fooling myself and was indeed manipulating someone.

I think I have a lot of mighty powerful defenses which I don't even recognize half the time. I hate the idea of being inauthentic but I guess it has happened because of them. Sometimes I think I might not even know the real me, so how can I be honest?

Funny thing though, the more honest (in a brutally honest kinda way) I try to be, the more it seems like it's going to come and bit me in the arse. Feelings change, thoughts develop. What might've been true once is no longer. I guess that's how NiFe functions, I just feel like my views on things are constantly changing or open to challenge.

Whatever. I was a pathological liar almost when I was a kid. I wanted to make people laugh I guess. To this day I've had to learn about honesty. And yet I like honest people myself.

I don't make a good liar, but it's frightening how I can sell almost anything to my brain, any idea. And monitorning my motives close enough would make almost everything dishonest.
 

Arclight

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One of the 1st things we learn to do as infants is lie. It's inherent.
No one teaches humans to lie, it's an instinct.
We all do it, every single one of us without exception without prejudice.

NF's are skilled liars, among the best. The temperament ensures it.

We should probably cut the people closest to us some slack for telling little white lies. Don't you think?
 

skylights

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Feelings change, thoughts develop. What might've been true once is no longer. I guess that's how NiFe functions, I just feel like my views on things are constantly changing or open to challenge.

well said, and the same thing goes for me. just like Ni sees from many perspectives, Ne sees into many possibilities. what might've been true once is no longer; what might be true now may not be in the future.

hence my preference of truth over Truth.



believe in being sincere, yes. truthful is more difficult to pinpoint.
 

Synapse

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well said, and the same thing goes for me. just like Ni sees from many perspectives, Ne sees into many possibilities. what might've been true once is no longer; what might be true now may not be in the future.

hence my preference of truth over Truth.



believe in being sincere, yes. truthful is more difficult to pinpoint.

Just the kind of words I was intending to say, good stuff.
 

Razvan

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One of the 1st things we learn to do as infants is lie. It's inherent.
No one teaches humans to lie, it's an instinct.
We all do it, every single one of us without exception without prejudice.

NF's are skilled liars, among the best. The temperament ensures it.

We should probably cut the people closest to us some slack for telling little white lies. Don't you think?

I actually agree mostly with you, the difference may be in why we lie. With people I care, I try to be as hones and open as possible, but sometimes, I may not tell some things I don't understand, either I'm afraid I will be judged or I'm afraid it might hurt them. With the rest, well, they don't really have access to most of my life, they see only what I let them to. Not sure if it's the best way though, even with white lies. Sincerity can help build a stronger bound, on a long term.
 

Arclight

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I actually agree mostly with you, the difference may be in why we lie. With people I care, I try to be as hones and open as possible, but sometimes, I may not tell some things I don't understand, either I'm afraid I will be judged or I'm afraid it might hurt them. With the rest, well, they don't really have access to most of my life, they see only what I let them to. Not sure if it's the best way though, even with white lies. Sincerity can help build a stronger bound, on a long term.

I probably should have added to my first post that NF's also love to justify their lying.

But really it's not open to interpretation. It's either a lie or it isn't and it's either acceptable behavior or it isn't.

I make these statements not as a critique to NFs or people in general, But rather as a plea for people to soften their stance on others by looking at themselves instead. If you can lie and justify it and still claim to have integrity, then It would only make sense that you afford the same courtesy to others.

P.S. I am not crazy
 

skylights

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If you can lie and justify it and still claim to have integrity, then It would only make sense that you afford the same courtesy to others.

i agree with this completely.

and i do not have a problem with a liar with integrity. for example, i think many people would see a government agent who lies to protect his position a liar with integrity. lying for the sake of protecting another.

It's either a lie or it isn't and it's either acceptable behavior or it isn't.

eh, i think it's not so black and white. reality is very rarely - if ever - only binary. but, that said, i think you make an interesting point bringing up "acceptable" behavior, because i see an important distinction here... in my own brain:

  • lying is generally a bad idea if the reason you are lying is unimportant.
  • lying is generally okay if the reason you are lying is of greater importance than preserving honesty. for example...

i forget what philosopher brought it up, maybe kant, but some ethicist raised (something similar to) the situation in which you are approached, at gunpoint, by a murderer demanding to know which way the person running away from him, that you just saw run by, went. he will shoot you if you do not answer.

if lying is always Wrong, then you should tell him the truth. if lying is occasionally okay, then you can lie to him for the sake of the person's life. i believe that it was kant and kant argued that you should tell him the truth because you have no idea how it will affect things (categorical imperatives and all that.) it's the one place i seriously disagree with kant. i like kantian philosophy but this seems like a pretty obvious one to me.
 

Razvan

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I probably should have added to my first post that NF's also love to justify their lying.

But really it's not open to interpretation. It's either a lie or it isn't and it's either acceptable behavior or it isn't.

I make these statements not as a critique to NFs or people in general, But rather as a plea for people to soften their stance on others by looking at themselves instead. If you can lie and justify it and still claim to have integrity, then It would only make sense that you afford the same courtesy to others.

P.S. I am not crazy

Well, I have different expectations from different people. From the one I would call my soulmate, I expect nothing but openess and total sincerity and also not beeing judged. If I get that, I will have no reason to lie. There I a lot of reasons why I lie, but I won't get into that, even if I love to. :D

From other people, in order for me to forgive them, I need an explanation than to reach an agreement about it and an apology if necesary. That's about the level of courtesy I would like to get and that's what I would give.
 

Arclight

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Well, I have different expectations from different people. From the one I would call my soulmate, I expect nothing but openess and total sincerity and also not beeing judged. If I get that, I will have no reason to lie. There I a lot of reasons why I lie, but I won't get into that, even if I love to. :D

From other people, in order for me to forgive them, I need an explanation than to reach an agreement about it and an apology if necesary. That's about the level of courtesy I would like to get and that's what I would give.

Would you lie to your "soul mate"?.. Because this is kind of my point.. There seems to be a theme in this thread that the closer the person is.. the more likely you are to lie to them but to not allow this person the same luxury of lying to you.


You seem to be saying that as long as this person plays exactly by your rules you will refrain from being dishonest with them.

Maybe they have "lot's of reasons" for lying as well??.

My point.. the people you love should be the ones who you understand the most.. You have reasons, so do they.. so why the double standard?

You forgive the person who doesn't matter , and hold the person who does to a standard that you yourself are not willing to commit to.

You know there are two Typology books I read That explain this very behavior.
 

nolla

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There seems to be a theme in this thread that the closer the person is.. the more likely you are to lie to them but to not allow this person the same luxury of lying to you.

Hmm... I'm not up to date with what's going on in this thread, but just have to tell you that I've not seen this kind of behavior in any relatively healthy representative of any type. The closer you are to someone the less there is reason to lie since you are accepted more as a person with flaws...
 
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