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Thread: NF Honesty?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Einnas's Avatar
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    I tend not to tell the truth to people who do not deserve it. This does not mean i am lying, just that i am not telling all there is to it.. i like it that way.
    "...Have you fallen in love with the wrong person yet?"
    Jace said, "Unfortunately, Lady of the Haven, my one true love remains myself."
    "At least," she said, "you don't have to worry about rejection, Jace Wayland"
    "Not necessarily. I turn myself down occasionally, just to keep it interesting"

    - The City Of Bones

    Here is my blog where I post my thoughts and feelings. Please have a go and comment if you like.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Hmm... I'm not up to date with what's going on in this thread, but just have to tell you that I've not seen this kind of behavior in any relatively healthy representative of any type. The closer you are to someone the less there is reason to lie since you are accepted more as a person with flaws...
    And I suppose the more you have to lose?

    It's not me BTW.. I have read the whole thread. There is a point to my posts and it's to cut the people closest to you some slack for doing the same things you do.
    Hold the people you love to less harsh standard, for they mirror you.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    And I suppose the more you have to lose?
    In a way you lose it if you don't trust it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    It's not me BTW.. I have read the whole thread. There is a point to my posts and it's to cut the people closest to you some slack for doing the same things you do.
    Hold the people you love to less harsh standard, for they mirror you.
    Well, have to scan it through when I got time. I agree that if you are to lie to someone, you should expect the same from them.

  4. #44
    Senior Member HotpinkHeatwave's Avatar
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    If I don't know you, I probably don't give a shit about your feelings. Especially if you're an asshole. If so, prepare to be dropped.

    If I know you, I may care about how you feel. I may choose my words wisely. It depends on how you act/I view you.

    If I care about you, I most likely care about how you feel. I will chose my words wisely (unless you really need to hear the truth), and I will try to make you feel like you're on top of the world. Because... I care about you, which is a rare thing, and you deserve it.

    Edit: How you treat me is also a factor.

    People I don't know that (like I said) who are assholes, prepare to be dropped. People I know who are assholes, prepare to recieve some nasty words in return. People I care about who can be assholes (I never care about someone who is always an asshole, they can fuck off), prepare to be ignored.

  5. #45
    Junior Member Razvan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Would you lie to your "soul mate"?.. Because this is kind of my point.. There seems to be a theme in this thread that the closer the person is.. the more likely you are to lie to them but to not allow this person the same luxury of lying to you.


    You seem to be saying that as long as this person plays exactly by your rules you will refrain from being dishonest with them.

    Maybe they have "lot's of reasons" for lying as well??.

    My point.. the people you love should be the ones who you understand the most.. You have reasons, so do they.. so why the double standard?

    You forgive the person who doesn't matter , and hold the person who does to a standard that you yourself are not willing to commit to.

    You know there are two Typology books I read That explain this very behavior.
    Why would I lie, well, I wouldn't , I like relationships based on honesty. You must have misunderstood something I said. I ment to say that if I will have nothing to fear and I will feel accepted as I am, with flaws and all, with whatever I like to do and all, I will have no reason to lie to anybody, especially to my special one. However, this is not always true... I wouldn't really be mad if I was lied to, unless it was about something important. I am very tolerant by nature with people, so it would kind of suck if I did not feel that those special people in my life trust me. I have toned down my critics a lot in the past, because I knew it would hurt feelings and tried to put whatever bothered me in a nice form, because of this : I did not want people to be afraid to be honest with me. I'm trying to find a concrete example...but not sure I can find one. Oh, here are some, my ex used to be pretty jealous and posesive, I would omit mentioning stopping by to see a friend or even my family some times, or talking with people on the internet, or whatever thought she would have a problem with. On the other hand, I did not have a problem with that, her going to do he exact thing, although she didn't actually do it too often. I don't think it was very healthy for our relationship, but I could not find any solution for this, talking it out didn't always work.

    Oh and you could say I forgive easily people who don't matter, but that's actually because I don't care as much so it's easier to forgive. I expect more from someone special, I expect them to know they can trust me and have faith in me and be sincere and I will do my best to understand. Try that first with me, before lying.

    Seriously, I don't think I have had double standards...

  6. #46
    Senior Member Rachelinpa's Avatar
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    hmm... i would like to say i never lie, but i think sometimes i sort of don't say anything to preserve harmony... which some may argue is deceitful. i am frequently in positions where an SF will ask me to justify something for her, and i am always at a loss for words... i don't agree with what she is saying, but i don't always know whether it is my place to really defend the person or thing she is gossiping about... so i stay silent. i guess maybe that isn't lying, but it's not something i usually end up feeling good about later.

  7. #47
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    I haven't misunderstood anything..

    If you think or believe you don't lie then you are not human or you are delusional.

    This is not open debate or interpretation.

    Everybody lies, even you.

    Quick.. A woman you respect and like comes up to you and says "isn't my baby gorgeous?"
    You think the baby is actually the ugliest baby you have ever seen.
    Do you tell her this?

    I rest my case.

    You can justify your answer a 100 times. That doesn't change it from being a lie.

    P.S. I used a nice fluffy example.

  8. #48
    Junior Member Razvan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I haven't misunderstood anything..

    If you think or believe you don't lie then you are not human or you are delusional.

    This is not open debate or interpretation.

    Everybody lies, even you.
    Well, now I know you must have misunderstood me. I NEVER said I don't lie. Seriously, I don't remember saying that. I said I wouldn't lie, unless I had to. I have close relationships with people and I did not have to lie to them about a thing. The acceptance is high enough so I feel I can be myself with them and they accept me for who I am. It's only true for a few people though.

    Quick.. A woman you respect and like comes up to you and says "isn't my baby gorgeous?"
    You think the baby is actually the ugliest baby you have ever seen.
    Do you tell her this?

    I rest my case.

    You can justify your answer a 100 times. That doesn't change it from being a lie.

    P.S. I used a nice fluffy example.
    I'd say "yeah, he's preatty". I don't think that would be a lie, I find every human being beautiful, even if physically ugly. I only find ugly those who are deep down inside ugly. I'm a Perceiver and an Intuitive, I don't get stuck in details, I can see the big picture and I doesn't have to fit a specific pattern for me to consider it in a way or another. If it would be a lie or not, well, for me it will not be a lie because I would believe that. Here's an example, I saw a men in a wheelchair, it was a story posted in a newspaer about how he was able to live his life after the accident, get a job, fight with people not wanting to hire him because of that, succeding and so on. I found the story and the person very beautiful, even if maybe he wasn't that physically attractive.

    Ok, if she would be specific about it, I don't know what I would do, I would probably lie, maybe I will, maybe I won't, it's hard to say. But I am not throwing away the possibility of doing it, although, I think both altenatives would pose advantages and disadvanteges.

  9. #49
    Junior Member Sioul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    I'm very good at lying, and I spot it easily when others are lying. I am very good at deceit and manipulation. It was a behavior I learned because I had to hide family issues from a very young age. I now strive to live a lifestyle that isn't centered around lies and manipulation.

    I hate consistent dishonesty, but don't mind occasional dishonesty. As far as who I am, I am an open book. I'm very honest, and frank, queen of TMI. I resent it if someone implies I'm insincere. I lied to myself and others for a lot of years about who I was and what I wanted. So now it is extremely important for me to be honest with myself and others and not to pretend for societal standards. That is the form of honesty that is important to me.


    I feel like I am one of the most honest people I've ever met...

    Do I think lying is always wrong... no.

    I won't make a rule out of it.

    I can relate to almost everything that you said. When I was younger, I would lie alot. Actually lets correct that, I would often "exaggerate". I think part of being an ENFP is wanting to be constantly liked, we want to constantly engage people, and so when you feel like something you say might not keep that interest, it's not uncommon for an ENFP to slightly exagerate the story to make it more interesting?

    As I've grown, I've learned that this is not the type of person I want to be and in the last few years, have been really successful at just being myself. People are attracted to our enthusiasm and energy just the way you are, you don't need to pretend to be someone your not.

    But to answer the question, I as an ENFP, like angelhair am quite a capable liar and am equally as good as spotting a liar, because I know all the scenarios and words people use when they are put on the spot.

    But I don't really do it much anymore.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Tabula's Avatar
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    I'm an excellent liar, if and when I want to be--something that I'm not especially proud of, but it doesn't make it any less true. A side-effect of which, is always knowing when others are lying and/or exaggerating. It's actually sort of irritating. In some cases, I'd rather just not know.

    In the past, I've told some real doozies, and got away with all but one, which I'm extremely grateful for. Had I not, I'm sure I would not have learned my lesson before getting myself into some really horrible situation. Even while I was making things up, it was never with the intention of hurting anyone (though, incidentally, it did end up doing just that, by way of a breach of trust [understandably so.]) I did it out of a want to seem more interesting than I am.

    I don't do that anymore. But now, knowing what I've done, I'm in constant [over]compensation mode-- being brutally honest where the situation really doesn't call for it. I avoid all contact because I don't really like the person I seem to be--nor have a complete sense of who I am--so I allow others full, honest access to my faults before they really get a chance to make a judgement about me for themselves. Well, that, and I really don't feel the need for any sort of relationship or connection with other people anymore.

    However, with regards to lying to oneself, I just can't. I'm ALWAYS questioning my real motives and thinking that I'm still somehow deceiving myself. Even when I would make things up, it was always because I knew that truly, I'm a really boring, self-absorbed person. I've made a habit of spending hours upon hours thinking about possible reasons for X and Y, and what that suggests about my true character. It's tiring and I end up more confused, overwhelmed by seemingly infinite possibilites and interpretations, separated by a lost sense of inhabiting myself, and extremely frustrated with the fact that there is no sure-fire way to definitively know for certain. Still, I can't turn it off. :steam:

    If someone were to call me dishonest, I'd be more interested in why and about what than for the fact that they did. It'd probably sting a bit, given that I'm making such an effort to be honest, but I'd put that aside in favor of trying to incorporate better strategies for effectively conveying honesty to others (provided theirs is a valid objection of course.)
    Last edited by Tabula; 09-29-2010 at 11:38 AM. Reason: didn't answer the question.

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