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Thread: NF Honesty?

  1. #31
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    One of the 1st things we learn to do as infants is lie. It's inherent.
    No one teaches humans to lie, it's an instinct.
    We all do it, every single one of us without exception without prejudice.

    NF's are skilled liars, among the best. The temperament ensures it.

    We should probably cut the people closest to us some slack for telling little white lies. Don't you think?

  2. #32
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibby View Post
    Feelings change, thoughts develop. What might've been true once is no longer. I guess that's how NiFe functions, I just feel like my views on things are constantly changing or open to challenge.
    well said, and the same thing goes for me. just like Ni sees from many perspectives, Ne sees into many possibilities. what might've been true once is no longer; what might be true now may not be in the future.

    hence my preference of truth over Truth.



    believe in being sincere, yes. truthful is more difficult to pinpoint.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    well said, and the same thing goes for me. just like Ni sees from many perspectives, Ne sees into many possibilities. what might've been true once is no longer; what might be true now may not be in the future.

    hence my preference of truth over Truth.



    believe in being sincere, yes. truthful is more difficult to pinpoint.
    Just the kind of words I was intending to say, good stuff.

  4. #34
    Junior Member Razvan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    One of the 1st things we learn to do as infants is lie. It's inherent.
    No one teaches humans to lie, it's an instinct.
    We all do it, every single one of us without exception without prejudice.

    NF's are skilled liars, among the best. The temperament ensures it.

    We should probably cut the people closest to us some slack for telling little white lies. Don't you think?
    I actually agree mostly with you, the difference may be in why we lie. With people I care, I try to be as hones and open as possible, but sometimes, I may not tell some things I don't understand, either I'm afraid I will be judged or I'm afraid it might hurt them. With the rest, well, they don't really have access to most of my life, they see only what I let them to. Not sure if it's the best way though, even with white lies. Sincerity can help build a stronger bound, on a long term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan View Post
    I actually agree mostly with you, the difference may be in why we lie. With people I care, I try to be as hones and open as possible, but sometimes, I may not tell some things I don't understand, either I'm afraid I will be judged or I'm afraid it might hurt them. With the rest, well, they don't really have access to most of my life, they see only what I let them to. Not sure if it's the best way though, even with white lies. Sincerity can help build a stronger bound, on a long term.
    I probably should have added to my first post that NF's also love to justify their lying.

    But really it's not open to interpretation. It's either a lie or it isn't and it's either acceptable behavior or it isn't.

    I make these statements not as a critique to NFs or people in general, But rather as a plea for people to soften their stance on others by looking at themselves instead. If you can lie and justify it and still claim to have integrity, then It would only make sense that you afford the same courtesy to others.

    P.S. I am not crazy

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    That one's easy, you just don't tell them. What they don't know can't hurt them.
    Exactly. Just pointing out that lies can be good and necessary in some situations to those who have tough anti-lie stances.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    If you can lie and justify it and still claim to have integrity, then It would only make sense that you afford the same courtesy to others.
    i agree with this completely.

    and i do not have a problem with a liar with integrity. for example, i think many people would see a government agent who lies to protect his position a liar with integrity. lying for the sake of protecting another.

    It's either a lie or it isn't and it's either acceptable behavior or it isn't.
    eh, i think it's not so black and white. reality is very rarely - if ever - only binary. but, that said, i think you make an interesting point bringing up "acceptable" behavior, because i see an important distinction here... in my own brain:

    • lying is generally a bad idea if the reason you are lying is unimportant.
    • lying is generally okay if the reason you are lying is of greater importance than preserving honesty. for example...


    i forget what philosopher brought it up, maybe kant, but some ethicist raised (something similar to) the situation in which you are approached, at gunpoint, by a murderer demanding to know which way the person running away from him, that you just saw run by, went. he will shoot you if you do not answer.

    if lying is always Wrong, then you should tell him the truth. if lying is occasionally okay, then you can lie to him for the sake of the person's life. i believe that it was kant and kant argued that you should tell him the truth because you have no idea how it will affect things (categorical imperatives and all that.) it's the one place i seriously disagree with kant. i like kantian philosophy but this seems like a pretty obvious one to me.

  8. #38
    Junior Member Razvan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I probably should have added to my first post that NF's also love to justify their lying.

    But really it's not open to interpretation. It's either a lie or it isn't and it's either acceptable behavior or it isn't.

    I make these statements not as a critique to NFs or people in general, But rather as a plea for people to soften their stance on others by looking at themselves instead. If you can lie and justify it and still claim to have integrity, then It would only make sense that you afford the same courtesy to others.

    P.S. I am not crazy
    Well, I have different expectations from different people. From the one I would call my soulmate, I expect nothing but openess and total sincerity and also not beeing judged. If I get that, I will have no reason to lie. There I a lot of reasons why I lie, but I won't get into that, even if I love to.

    From other people, in order for me to forgive them, I need an explanation than to reach an agreement about it and an apology if necesary. That's about the level of courtesy I would like to get and that's what I would give.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razvan View Post
    Well, I have different expectations from different people. From the one I would call my soulmate, I expect nothing but openess and total sincerity and also not beeing judged. If I get that, I will have no reason to lie. There I a lot of reasons why I lie, but I won't get into that, even if I love to.

    From other people, in order for me to forgive them, I need an explanation than to reach an agreement about it and an apology if necesary. That's about the level of courtesy I would like to get and that's what I would give.
    Would you lie to your "soul mate"?.. Because this is kind of my point.. There seems to be a theme in this thread that the closer the person is.. the more likely you are to lie to them but to not allow this person the same luxury of lying to you.


    You seem to be saying that as long as this person plays exactly by your rules you will refrain from being dishonest with them.

    Maybe they have "lot's of reasons" for lying as well??.

    My point.. the people you love should be the ones who you understand the most.. You have reasons, so do they.. so why the double standard?

    You forgive the person who doesn't matter , and hold the person who does to a standard that you yourself are not willing to commit to.

    You know there are two Typology books I read That explain this very behavior.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    There seems to be a theme in this thread that the closer the person is.. the more likely you are to lie to them but to not allow this person the same luxury of lying to you.
    Hmm... I'm not up to date with what's going on in this thread, but just have to tell you that I've not seen this kind of behavior in any relatively healthy representative of any type. The closer you are to someone the less there is reason to lie since you are accepted more as a person with flaws...

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