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  1. #21
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I think the point is that none of these behaviors are restricted to F's. T's do them as well, and T's also utilize a feeling function - either Fe or Fi. T's can often consider their own views more valuable than that of another, and often try to prove that, and T's are certainly not immune to avoidance.
    Then couldn't the F function in Thinking types (even as an inferior function) be what leads them to act this way?

  2. #22
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    Then couldn't the F function in Thinking types (even as an inferior function) be what leads them to act this way?
    I'm not really a fan of taking Behavior A and saying it's tied only to one cognitive function - because I don't think that's the case.

    If one wants to utilize cognitive functions to map out every single behavior, as many people seem to want to do, yes, maybe you could say it's because of the 'F function'. But honestly, how would we know? And I'm not one who's comfortable doing that - I don't believe every facet of human psychology and behavior can be whittled down to 8 functions that we've created.

    And, cognitive functions in the end aren't supposed to be about behavior.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #23
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    Jaguar, I think a lot of these can, in fact, be related to Feeling as a judging function...

    Being manipulative and making someone feel guilty suggests that you consider your views to be more valuable and you are trying to prove it.
    Avoidance suggests that the way you are feeling is more important than the way others are feeling in a problematic situation. (I've felt this in a recent conflict with a Fi-dominant person).
    That's your personal interpretation getting in the way of accepting how Jung defined the functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post

    And, cognitive functions in the end aren't supposed to be about behavior.
    I see the 8 function attitudes as 8 different colors of paint. To assume people-even in a similar category-will paint the same picture, is nothing short of ridiculous.

  4. #24
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    I suppose mainly T users will tend to make you feel that they are right you are wrong and F users will suggest that their perpective gives importance and value to the right things. ...?

  5. #25
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    That's your personal interpretation getting in the way of accepting how Jung defined the functions.



    I see the 8 function attitudes as 8 different colors of paint. To assume people-even in a similar category-will paint the same picture, is nothing short of ridiculous.
    T doesn't value things, rightly or wrongly. It only analyzes them. I suppose this may be somewhat less true with Ti, but it's definitely right with Te. Even though I prefer Te to Fi, it's my Fi that tells me what's important in life. Te's statistics and empirical logic have no impact on that, at least for me.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    I suppose mainly T users will tend to make you feel that they are right you are wrong and F users will suggest that their perpective gives importance and value to the right things. ...?
    I can't agree with that. I think it's unfair to both groups of people since only a small percentage of each group-and I use that word loosely- may behave in the manner you suggest. I use both T and F, depending on the situation, and have no interest in being thrown into either of your groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    T doesn't value things, rightly or wrongly. It only analyzes them. I suppose this may be somewhat less true with Ti, but it's definitely right with Te. Even though I prefer Te to Fi, it's my Fi that tells me what's important in life. Te's statistics and empirical logic have no impact on that, at least for me.
    Thanks for the reply, but you missed the point of my comment to cascadeco. She and I are of the same opinion when it comes to the topic of behavior.
    We all have access to the same functions, but how we "paint" with them can yield a different result from each person.

  7. #27
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I am not an expert, but as I understand it Fi is knowing what is good/bad or right/wrong. It is an evaluative process that is highly subjective (meaning: differing among individuals).

    So if Ne thinks in global fashion, Fi pulls us down to earth and makes us think okay what is good/bad or right/wrong for THIS situation/person/whatever.

    But if Ne and Te act without Fi, I can imagine that as being - this is my global generality now let's do this shit and screw it!!!!! RAWRRRRRRRRRR! Yeah, baby, I got this!!!!!!!!!

    Therefore Fi makes us question/evaluate/put the global generalities to the test.

    Um, let me think of an example. (Probably going to be a crappy example because I admittedly didn't really think this through - just winging it).

    Healthy Harmony of Four Functions:

    Ne: Explosion of ideas on how to teach concept X.
    Fi: What is really good for THIS group with this dynamic and these individuals?
    Te: What do I need to implement this idea? How shall I go through with it?
    Si: How have I taught this before? How did it work? Is this group similar? Can I extrapolate a reasonable chance of success as compared with the past?

    Unhealthy Disharmony/Lack of Strength

    Scenario A: Tired/Lack focus

    Ne: Explosion of ideas.
    Unhealthy Fi: Don't know which to use.
    Te: PICK ONE DAMN IT.
    Si: Fuck, nothing ever works.

    Scenario B: Don't consider the group

    Ne: Explosion of ideas.
    Unhealthy Fi: That will work.
    Unhealthy Te: Don't think it through/don't prepare right.
    Unhealthy Si: Well, shit, that lesson sucked ass. Shit. Why didn't it work? It worked with the OTHER group.
    Unhealthy Fi: That group is just stupid and shitty. They are the problem.
    Unhealthy Te: Fuck 'em.

    Scenario C: Use an improper method - most dominant functions are silent. Only aux speaks with gross overtones. -> At home, safe, after a bad lesson

    Unhealthy Fi: What the fuck is wrong with these dumb assholes?
    Unhealthy Se: Tell em who's boss. These little fuckers need a lesson. A REAL ONE!!!!! RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!
    Healthy/weak Ti: Doesn't make any sense.
    Unhealthy Fi: Yeah, because these idiots are bad, wrong, stupid, dumb, idiotic, moronic....
    Unhealthy Se: Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh baby and now I am gonna kick some ass.
    Healthy Te: Probably not the best idea.
    Unhealthy Se: Okay. I will yell. Get their attention. Hey over here you little dumb fart. Yeahhhhh I am talking to you. STFU AND LISTEN TO MY ASS!
    Healthy Te/Ti/weak: Uhhh - what are you doing?
    Unhealthy Se: SHUT IT!!!! SHUTTTTTTTTTT ITTTTTTTTTTTT! *throws temper tantrum*
    Unhealthy Ni: I definitely see someone's going to lose their job over this.
    Unhealthy Fi: I am bad. I am a horrible teacher. I am a loser. I suck at life.
    Unhealthy Ni: Yeah, you're going to die cold and alone.
    Healthy Te: Um, what are we even talking about here? HELLO?!?!?!?!?!

    Oh, I can give a billion examples, but I think you get the point.

    If I am on the wrong track, please let me know. But that is how I understand it.

  8. #28
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    Me?

    I think problems revolve around me, and then I self-deprecate. I'm anxious of possible
    rejection. I can even get anxious of possible rejection because I talk a lot about possible
    rejection, if that makes sense.

    Whether this is Fi or Fe or Ti or Te I don't know.


    And of course, this
    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    I loop whenever I do not find a satisfactory answer

    This being the cold hard fact
    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Instead of communicating in a healthy, effective, mature, simple manner, I shut down, do not speak to you, do not explain, do not share my feelings...I may stare angrily at you. Meanwhile all the other person wants is an explanation to resolve whatever the issue or to help but I am so hurt all on my own that I refuse to speak. Avoidance. I prolong problems.

    My NeTe likes to go out and play and stir things up...my FiSi just whines all day long.

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