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  1. #1
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Arrow Can ENFPs & ENFJs have great relationships?

    Is it possible for ENFPs and ENFJs to have a long term, healthy, and happy relationship? After all, they have nary a cognitive function in common.
    • ENFP = Ne > Fi > Te > Si
    • ENFJ = Fe > Ni > Se > Ti

    While all four NF types have a special kinship, this kinship doesn't seem universally strong. For example, just like there is a uniquely powerful magnetism between ENFPs and INFJs, there is an equally powerful repulsion between ENFPs and ENFJs.

    Thus, is the theory. And, so it is also my personal experience.

    I think of the ENFJs I know. I have soooo much in common with them. We like the same things. We both have a flair for conversation and for the arts. We both are socially capable and able to work our contacts. We both tend to get along with INFJs and INFPs quite well.

    And yet, even given all we have in common, it seems we live on different planets. Fi versus Fe? Whatever the reason, I'm not the only one who has noticed this natural antipathy between these two types.

    I want to know if anyone on the forum has figured out how to make such ENFP/ENFJ relationships work. Either as friends or lovers… Any advice is appreciated. I would very much like to improve my ability to interact with ENFJs.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    I never knew that ENFPs & ENFJs had problems with each other! I get along just fine with ENFPs .
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

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    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    An ENFJ I know really enjoyed the company of an ENFP friend for several years and said that she was very relaxing to be around (although their friendship eventually ended with her saying that he put too much pressure on her to perform/improve her life).

    I wonder if the problem with ENFJ/ENFP might be that both like to be the center of attention, and therefore there is a little bit of competing for the limelight and no one to gaze on appreciatively.

  4. #4
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    Friendships can work if there is compromise on both ends like with any other types. Ask the awesome Skylights about the awesomeness of the ENFJ-ENFP friendship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valerie View Post
    An ENFJ I know really enjoyed the company of an ENFP friend for several years and said that she was very relaxing to be around (although their friendship eventually ended with her saying that he put too much pressure on her to perform/improve her life).

    I wonder if the problem with ENFJ/ENFP might be that both like to be the center of attention, and therefore there is a little bit of competing for the limelight and no one to gaze on appreciatively.
    I do not like being the center of attention. I hate being fussed over.

  6. #6
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    [Let's not get off on the tangent of how MBTI and Socionics four-letter codes are compatible. I think that "authoritative opinions are all over the map on this matter. This post is about my opinion.]

    It's been my experience that if you DON'T change the letters, then Socionics' theory on interpersonal relations is spooky accurate.

    Per Socionics theory, ENFPs and ENFJs have quasi-identity (aka quasi-identical) relations. Let me offer a couple of descriptions of such ways of inter-relating:

    Quasi-Identity Relations: Quasi-identity is an intertype relation between two people from opposing quadras who have similar, but not identical functions, and no suggestive influence over the other. Partners typically have a lot to say about the same kinds of topics (as do, typically, any members of a single club), and their conversations gravitate to these common spheres of interest, but they take entirely different approaches to every subject. They both take note of the same phenomena, but describe and analyze them in completely different terms that the other finds interesting, but completely unsatisfying. This is because the language and approach of one partner's leading function corresponds to the strong, but undervalued demonstrative function of the other. Each partner tends to be impressed with the other's skillful use of his leading function, which they perceive more as a "performance" (due to their own attitudes toward their demonstrative function) than a sincere and honest expression.

    In closer interaction, partners' instincts are to want to correct the other person's approach and redefine the issues in completely different language. This leads to a feeling of being under-appreciated by the other. Partners are easily drawn into quite personal conversations because of the sense that the other person can relate to them, but this psychological intimacy can easily disappear without a trace when aggravation about something the other person does finally boils over and partners allow themselves to express dissatisfaction with the other. This can lead to disappointment and a feeling of betrayal of trust or lack of loyalty when partners suddenly don't want to be around each other or maintain the relationship anymore because it drains them.

    While generally sympathetic towards each other and sharing many of the same weaknesses, quasi-identicals are almost unable to offer meaningful assistance on a personal level, and quickly become annoyed with each other's expectations, if any. Furthermore, the solutions to their emotional or personal problems are always radically different. For instance, an EIE must "get himself together" and stop being idle or hesitant, while an IEE needs a change of pace and some new diversion. If each tries to implement the other's recipe, nothing comes of it.

    Quasi-Identical Relations. These are relations of major misunderstanding. Quasi-Identical partners can interact with each other in a more or less peaceful manner if both partners are Thinking types. If they are both Feeling types however, they are likely to have an argumentative relationship. Also, as in the other relations, personal attraction can be very crucial to the peacefulness in their relationship. An absence of personal attraction may cause unnecessary internal tension resulting in conflict between partners. However these arguments do not often last long. After both partners have released their internal tension, the Perceiving partner is usually the first to show the initiative in reconciliation.

    A positive aspect of these relations is that Quasi-Identical partners do not underline your weak points and therefore are not viewed as dangerous by each other. Neither do they see each other as equal. Each partner sees the other as less capable than themselves, hence less talented. However, Quasi-Identicals mistakenly believe that their partner is achieving more than they are. This is perceived by both partners as injustice and may hinder the ambitions of both.

    In these relations partners always have difficulty understanding each other in full. Quasi-Identical partners always need to convert each other's information in such a way that it corresponds with their own understanding. This conversion requires much energy and does not bring the desired satisfaction. Books written by your Quasi-Identical are impossible to read. The creations of your Quasi-Identical look monstrous. Conversations with your Quasi-Identical, although not heavy, do not bring any satisfaction either. One partner may think that the other partner complicates simple things and simplifies the important points, trying to deliberately confuse and mislead them. Both partners are convinced that whatever their partner was trying to say, could be explained in a different and more understandable way.

    Quasi-Identicals normally have no difficulties in finding topics for conversation or discussion. When it comes to solving problems together, Quasi-Identical partners begin to understand that they are both thinking in very different ways. Soon Quasi-Identicals may start regretting the time that they have spent together, believing that it was just wasted time. Quasi-identical relations are very fragile and normally break without regret as there is usually nothing to resist their disunion.

    Anyone have any comments on this?
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  7. #7
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I do not like being the center of attention. I hate being fussed over.
    Arclight, you and I would be friends IRL no matter what.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  8. #8
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    Friendships can work if there is compromise on both ends like with any other types. Ask the awesome Skylights about the awesomeness of the ENFJ-ENFP friendship.


    thank you to the awesome Pitseleh for the reference

    and yes my bff is ENFJ. and is the awesomest.

    i have gone out with an ENFJ before too, and things did not work out simply because of where we were both at in life, but it was great for the short while it lasted and we parted on totally positive terms.

    i think ENFJ and ENFP can make an amazing combination if they both care enough about one another to momentarily sacrifice their points of view to see on the other's side for a moment. because really, it's startlingly similar. and we can be a huge help to one another if we get over ourselves first.

    Quote Originally Posted by socionics
    quasi-identicals are almost unable to offer meaningful assistance on a personal level, and quickly become annoyed with each other's expectations, if any. Furthermore, the solutions to their emotional or personal problems are always radically different. For instance, an EIE must "get himself together" and stop being idle or hesitant, while an IEE needs a change of pace and some new diversion. If each tries to implement the other's recipe, nothing comes of it.
    fwiw, i completely disagree with this. my ENFJ friend is the person i can go to with my WAHHH Fi and she can understand where i'm coming from, cheer me up, and whip me back into shape. though not really in that order, lol. more like call me out on my bullshit and whip me back into shape, understand where i'm coming from, then cheer me up. conversely, i feel like i can get to her on a more personal level than a lot of people can, and she feels okay talking to me about her stress, which i know she tends to keep pent up inside. and sometimes i think i need a change of pace or diversion and what i really need is to get my shit together; sometimes she would prefer to stew alone when what can be more helpful is letting go for a while. just because they're not our natural way of solving things does not mean they cannot be good for us. and we may still need to solve the problem via our preferences, but a temporary removal from our preferences can be key to breaking out of a negative mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by more soc
    A positive aspect of these relations is that Quasi-Identical partners do not underline your weak points and therefore are not viewed as dangerous by each other. Neither do they see each other as equal. Each partner sees the other as less capable than themselves, hence less talented. However, Quasi-Identicals mistakenly believe that their partner is achieving more than they are. This is perceived by both partners as injustice and may hinder the ambitions of both.
    i think there's a level of truth to this, but is this not true for any pair of humans?

    i think it's also important to note that ENFP and ENFJ are both very talented at "seeing into" others. we both can lock onto strengths and weaknesses very quickly. hence we both see one another's strengths and it is both admirable and threatening, and we both see one another's weaknesses and it is both comforting/endearing and frustrating. yet because of Fi/Fe we tend to these strengths and weaknesses in a different way. we are both more and less talented than one another, and we do get into trouble when concentrating only on one or the other side of that balance. but it's easy enough to restore the perceived balance (it is all in our heads, after all) by simply working together toward the same goal, instead of comparing yourselves against one another.

    and just wait until you confess to your quasi-identical that you feel like you're inferior to them in some way and it blows and you're frustrated as hell, just to hear them echo the same thing back to you, about some attribute that never even crossed your mind. surprise! ENFJ might project certainty and ENFP might project positivity (or vice versa), but as extraverted types we project so well that we can forget how much more is going on under the surface - we are both NF, after all - and that one another isn't without worries. we hide weakness in very different places, and that's essential to mutual understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by and more
    In these relations partners always have difficulty understanding each other in full. Quasi-Identical partners always need to convert each other's information in such a way that it corresponds with their own understanding. This conversion requires much energy and does not bring the desired satisfaction. Books written by your Quasi-Identical are impossible to read. The creations of your Quasi-Identical look monstrous. Conversations with your Quasi-Identical, although not heavy, do not bring any satisfaction either. One partner may think that the other partner complicates simple things and simplifies the important points, trying to deliberately confuse and mislead them. Both partners are convinced that whatever their partner was trying to say, could be explained in a different and more understandable way.

    Quasi-Identicals normally have no difficulties in finding topics for conversation or discussion. When it comes to solving problems together, Quasi-Identical partners begin to understand that they are both thinking in very different ways. Soon Quasi-Identicals may start regretting the time that they have spent together, believing that it was just wasted time. Quasi-identical relations are very fragile and normally break without regret as there is usually nothing to resist their disunion.
    geez, DESTINED FOR DOOM

    all i have to say is that i trust my bff with my life and our friendship pretty much defies every negative thing said here. i'm not saying it hasn't had huge ups and downs. it sure as hell has. yes, we communicate and respond and come at things in totally different ways, but what we see as important, at the deepest level, is generally very much the same. and i've grown so much from our friendship and am definitely a better person for it. despite the gloomy-doom prediction, i would prefer for it to stick around as long as possible. and yeah, maybe we're just abnormal or maybe one of us just mistyped ourselves, but regardless, i think it's rather socially irresponsible on the typers' parts to write something that basically condemns a relationship between two types.

    so take that, socionics. a positive, healthy, theory-defying quasi-identical relationship.

    esoteric wench: i give you HOPE!

  9. #9
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    And with that, we have been inspired.
    Oh, its
    You
    ....

  10. #10
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    all i have to say is that i trust my [ENFJ] bff with my life and our friendship pretty much defies every negative thing said here. i'm not saying it hasn't had huge ups and downs. it sure as hell has. yes, we communicate and respond and come at things in totally different ways, but what we see as important, at the deepest level, is generally very much the same.

    esoteric wench: i give you HOPE!
    This does give me hope skylights. Thanks for posting. Because, I would very much like to improve my interactions with ENFJs.

    And, you're absolutely right that the biggest thing ENFJs and ENFPs have in common is our ability to read people oh-so-well. I think this is a wonderful starting point / area of common ground that I hadn't yet considered.

    I know several ENFJs and many of them do seem like the most wonderful people. But, I've been very, very hurt by a couple of ENFJs, too. And, I think it's made me gun shy to the entire type.... which I hate. I know it's unfair to judge an entire type by a couple of bad apples. But if I'm completely honest with myself, that's exactly what I've been doing. Thus, this thread. I'd like to change this part of myself.

    So you mentioned that you'd had ups and downs with your ENFJ BFF. My question to you is this:

    When your ENFJ becomes upset with you over an Fi/Fe issue, how do you give them push back? I don't see either Fe or Fi being superior to one another, but the ENFJs I've known seem to firmly believe that I must subsume my trouble-making Fi ways, to the correct (viz., Fe) way of behaving.


    In other words, how do you make an ENFJ understand you, and not condemn you, for your Fi-ness?

    And, if anyone else other than skylights has advice to share re: my question, that would be appreciated, too.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

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