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  1. #1
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    Default Cheating and Love: two NFs

    The thread on cheating here recently got me thinking, and if you're all not exhausted by the topic, here goes: I'm wondering what all of you think of a situation in which I fell deeply in love. The man and I met before he began dating someone new (I think he's and INFP or INFJ, but not extremely I). It was very much an emphathetic NF-NF bond and extremely wonderful and compelling. I was in a relationship at the time, but one that was unhappy and failing. When we realized the attraction between the two of us, he had been dating someone for about five months.

    We had an intense and heart-felt connection and continued to tell each other with unmistakable body language (and a couple of definite verbal affirmations) that we wanted each other. In the meantime, he was still dating his girlfriend (long distance), though he never talked about her with me in any way that would indicate he was serious about her or even in a committed relationship. It's as if she only marginally existed. After a few more months (and an intense period), our relationship only got better. Our bond was even stronger than it had been and we still had the same chemistry, wonderful discussions, and desire for one another (that unmistakable body language).

    I've thought that he was conflicted about me. If she had evesdropping on us, she would have no doubt that he wasn't being faithful. Though we weren't lovers, we had an unmistakable emotional amd mental bond. I feel if your heart is somewhere else or if you have another strong connection that's obviously romantic, it's a sign that there are problems in that primary relationship and it's headed for heartache.

    Sorry for the lengthy post!
    Last edited by Lauren; 09-03-2010 at 07:09 AM.

  2. #2
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    The language you used is very wishy washy... a few affirmations, unmistakable body language... why didnt you get a real affirmation? I think you might be over thinking this a bit. As an INFJ I would never leave something up to body language, if I wanted to be with someone I would be with them and make sure it was known what my intentions were...
    Ground control to Major Tom

  3. #3
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    It doesn't sound to me like he was conflicted or confused at all. He told you from the outset that he had a (long distance) girlfriend, and he mentioned her to you from time to time, and he ended up with her. He didn't have sex with you.

    I believe that would be a flirtation.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    It doesn't sound to me like he was conflicted or confused at all. He told you from the outset that he had a (long distance) girlfriend, and he mentioned her to you from time to time, and he ended up with her. He didn't have sex with you.

    I believe that would be a flirtation.
    He didn't tell me from the outset that he had a long distance girlfriend. He didn't mention her at all, except very uncomfortably and in passing, at the same time that he initiated things with me. This wasn't a light, fun flirtation. We were never just friends; there was always a charge between us. It felt like a soul connection.

    I can easily tell when a man is committed to a woman. They make it very clear you're just friends. Or, if they are seriously dating, you know. They don't put out a romantic vibe.

    By the way, we're still friends. I think instead he didn't want to sever our relationship. I didn't either.
    Last edited by Lauren; 09-03-2010 at 07:11 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    The language you used is very wishy washy... a few affirmations, unmistakable body language... why didnt you get a real affirmation? I think you might be over thinking this a bit. As an INFJ I would never leave something up to body language, if I wanted to be with someone I would be with them and make sure it was known what my intentions were...
    I agree. I didn't want to leave it just up to body language either. That's why I sought an affirmation, and received it. But as I said, body language speaks very loudly when it's difficult to get the words out. With all due respect, I'm not overthinking this. I've taken a fairly clear eyed look at it, even for an romantic idealist . I think there are men who definitely make their intentions known. I had serious relationships with two men (SP and INTJ) who were straightforward. But an NF is not, necessarily. That's why I think he was conflicted as to what to do.
    Last edited by Lauren; 09-03-2010 at 07:12 AM.

  6. #6
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren View Post
    I agree. I didn't want to leave it just up to body language either. That's why I sought an affirmation, and got it, three times. He gave me the green light essentially by accepting a clearly romantic invitation. But as I said, body language speaks very loudly when it's difficult to get the words out. With all due respect, I'm not overthinking this. I've taken a fairly clear eyed look at it, even for an romantic idealist . I think there are men who definitely make their intentions known. I had serious relationships with two men (SP and INTJ) who were straightforward. But an NF is not, necessarily. That's why I think he was conflicted as to what to do.
    "accepting a clearly romantic invitation"

    How was it clear?
    What was it?

    Your wording is so murky, I am an NF, I always make my intentions known because I cant stand being in a situation where its mixed up and unsure. I have however been asked out on dates I didnt know were dates, especially when the woman asking me out was taking me to a place I had mentioned I liked for the food... how was I supposed to know she had designs on me? She never said anything and I wasnt interested, so I didnt look at her that way. I do go out to dinner with female friends and colleagues, doesn't mean its romantic just because its a male and a female having dinner.

    we need more info.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    "accepting a clearly romantic invitation"

    How was it clear?
    What was it?

    Your wording is so murky, I am an NF, I always make my intentions known because I cant stand being in a situation where its mixed up and unsure. I have however been asked out on dates I didnt know were dates, especially when the woman asking me out was taking me to a place I had mentioned I liked for the food... how was I supposed to know she had designs on me? She never said anything and I wasnt interested, so I didnt look at her that way. I do go out to dinner with female friends and colleagues, doesn't mean its romantic just because its a male and a female having dinner.
    we need more info.
    I understand what you mean about how you hate being in a situation that is murky and unclear. I can stand this for a fairly long time because of my P and I don't want to close things off prematurely, but I can't go on forever in a murky state. Still, I realized that I had fallen in love with him and he was my friend, above all.
    Last edited by Lauren; 09-03-2010 at 07:15 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    I think the bigger issue here is just why is he still with his long-distance girlfriend in a serious relationship if he likes you (have fallen for you? have expressed interest)? Either he takes responsibility for his feelings and his actions or he does not.

    If my boyfriend is doing all this long romantic looks, touching, affirmation, yes, I'd consider it cheating and I'd consider it unethical. I trust your judgment on this, that he is being very romantically affectionate, but now what are you going to do?

    Are you okay with just remaining friends? Either way, the situation needs a firm conclusion with boundaries, right?

  9. #9
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren View Post
    I don't mean to be murky, it's just that I don't want to be too specific in details here online. We had been intensely flirting for two months. My situation changed and I became available. I told him so. For a month, he didn't mention her at all in all our conversations. I asked him over to my place, and basically he said "yes, as soon as possible." (There was no mistaking the desire, on both our parts in this conversation, that we wanted to take things further). A couple weeks later, this invitation was even more forcibly affirmed on his part.

    I understand what you mean about how you hate being in a situation that is murky and unclear. I can stand this for a fairly long time because of my P and I don't want to close things off prematurely, but I can't go on forever in a murky state. I've found, though, that patience was required in this relationship because I didn't know with certainty what was going on but was willing to hang in there to find out because I had fallen in love with him and because he was my friend.

    Relationships just aren't that clear cut at times. I also wanted to talk with him about what he was feeling, which I thought we might do over dinner. On another occasion, I planned to talk with him, but that conversation got derailed.
    My intuition is telling me that you still could be overthinking this... you are calling it a relationships, when in fact it wasnt one... it was too short to be considered a relationship especially since no one ever had the guts to ask the other "are we in a relationship" which P or J is a pretty standard step to take when getting into a relationship with someone.

    I would still need to know more about these intense flirtations etc... ive held hands with female friends when thier hands were cold because my hands are always hot, it was as much about stopping the cold on thier as it was about being selfish and cooling mine down... didnt mean I was interested.

    You need to be very clear here or we cannot really give you our insight into what your situation was. But that you are using such murky and cloak and dagger language and we only hear your side of the story, coupled with the fact that you left a relationship for someone who didnt leave his, indicated that you clearly wanted to be with him (you fell in love) could be ya know, disguising reality for you if you want to see something that didnt really exist.

    I am not trying to be mean, just objective. hit us with the facts, in clear language if you want our honest opinions. If you just want to be assured that he was a bastard and you were wronged, well... I dunno I just cant because its not that clear cut that he was even interested.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  10. #10
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    In my experience FJ men can be very nurturing in general, especially toward female friends - I had one ENFJ male friend who had tons of female friends, he was always giving people things, we had really great talks together and he was always doing sweet but misguided things like sneaking cookies into my purse or repeatedly offering me candy insisting that I wasn't fat. I've also had other FJ male friends - ISFJs are good for this in particular - who want to form a very intense emotional bond with other people without there necessarily being sex.

    I disagree with Billy in saying there was no intention there at all ... it sounds like you guys were having what is called "an emotional affair." But bear in mind if this guy was INFJ it just may be his nature to be very nuturing toward his close friends because of Fe.

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