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  1. #1
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Question What have you modeled your Fe or diplomatic skills after?

    I just read Jung's description of Fe and remembered this quote from David Keirsey about the Idealist Child (Fi NFs will probably also relate):

    "NF children seem to have a natural talent for relating intimately with others or for what I have called "diplomatic empathy." These children, even very young ones, like to play at being Teachers and Counsellors, Champions and Healers, and such interest in the diplomatic role variants may be inborn, since it shows up so early in the lives of NF children, and will lead to endless practice if encouraged by their parents. Unfortunately, there is in most cases very little modeling of such behaviour for them to copy. Few parents, or relatives –or even teachers, for that matter –are very skilled in diplomacy, so Idealist children must usually learn on their own rather than by taking after a good role model." –David Keirsey, Please Understand Me II

    This passage spoke to me so when I first read it, because I remembered being so exasperated about my ESTJ mother's poor sense of diplomacy and how she kept making sad blunders in her conversations and relationships in general. Even making our whole family ashamed sometimes.

    I so needed a decent role model to teach me diplomacy, but in a strange way, I seemed to have it in me, because I saw the problem when diplomacy was lacking.
    I feel that my attempts to find diplomatic models have formed my Fe, and that the Fe "standards" might be different from one person to another. What have you modeled your Fe after, or where have you found your models if they were lacking with relatives/parents, etc. ?
    I see a correlation with Fe but I might be wrong. For Fi Idealists, feel free to expose your perspective.
    Last edited by KLessard; 08-26-2010 at 05:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    When I was young, the local kids called me "Preacher" (I did not preach much.. I just would try to warn them of stuff they were getting into. "Shut up, preacher!" ). I might have not been the best diplomat at times.

    Otherwise, and I don't want to make it out like I was a saint, but I think the thing that stands out the most is when I tried to befriend this kid who was a burn victim.. It seemed like a lot of other kids didn't know what to do. His scars were pretty noticable, and I guess it scared them. After school, we went to my house and were playing with some toy cars out front.. and my mom came out, and freaked (It's embarassing to admit that about my mom). She was partly upset at something else, but she chased him away I must've only been 8 or 9 and flipped out on her and tried to make her feel ashamed about it. I don't know where that came from.. I wasn't scared of her. She was mostly good, but I knew she was wrong then.

    [edit] I think instead of diplomacy, there's a mix of empathy or concern in my childhood behavior, but stepping bounds to try to get people to see things my way.

  3. #3
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    I can relate to your anecdote about the burn victim. When I was about ten, there was a tall Haitian boy in my class (there were few black kids at that time in my school). He had failed a school year or two and was older. All the kids complained about the fact that he smelled (probably smells related to the sorts of spices used in his culture's cooking), and he was often made fun of. Even my best friends despised him. I didn't like it and felt sad for him, but I also felt a kind of pressure from my friends and would hesitate to talk to him. Well, we ended up in the same Morale class together; I sat with him in the back and decided to ignore my peers' attitude towards him. I knew I was doing the right thing. When I look back, I realize I did this for a lot of lonely or "different" classmates and colleagues all my life. When you do this for them, people's perspectives often start to change.

    I think that my Fe was mostly shaped on the Christian principles I was raised with. I would easily shape it after abstract principles or Bible stories without needing a concrete example to follow.
    Last edited by KLessard; 08-27-2010 at 02:26 PM.

  4. #4
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Probably a combo of Christian principles, exposure to a lot of kinds of people at a young age, and my ENFJ mother.

  5. #5
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    I'm a Christian, so it's partly putting into practice what I've learned about kindness and mildness.

    I think my dad is a very good example. He's firm but he also has strong diplomatic skills and he's kind. If I'm ever faced with something like horrible customer service, and I'm angry but trying not to get too angry, I totally find myself channeling my dad...it's quite eerie sometimes

    EDIT: I think I'm just used to being around a lot of different personalities at this point. You simply have to be diplomatic and adapt if you want to connect meaningfully with others at all.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Probably a combo of Christian principles, exposure to a lot of kinds of people at a young age, and my ENFJ mother.
    Change that to ESFJ mother and that's my story, too.

    My dad said to me once, "You keep bringing home these lost puppies for me to feed." He was talking about my friends ...

  7. #7
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    This passage spoke to me so when I first read it, because I remembered being so exasperated about my ESTJ mother's poor sense of diplomacy and how she kept making sad blunders in her conversations and relationships in general. Even making our whole family ashamed sometimes.
    Interestingly enough, I can relate to your example of your ESTJ mother. I have an ISTJ mother and I remember being embarrassed, growing up, in public settings sometimes - anything related to customer service.. so, when we would be in a store, in a restaurant, or the like... and I would internally cringe half the time at the way she said things and what I viewed as very tactless ways to interact with people or convey a message. To this day, when in a restaurant as a family, it still happens. My mom will say something, my ISFJ dad, my INTP brother, and myself will sit there, my brother and I giving each other knowing glances, my dad giving a good-natured chuckle and breaking the ice with the waiter (or whatever)... stuff like that.

    Actually I think I crafted my 'diplomacy' by trying to NOT be my mom. lol. And, perhaps I gained something out of observing my father, although it wasn't conscious... he's what I now consider to be a very decent, good, strong human being; although as a child I found him highly annoying and I gave him a really rough time of it.

    I so needed a decent role model to teach me diplomacy, but in a strange way, I seemed to have it in me, because I saw the problem when diplomacy was lacking.
    I didn't really have any specific role models. I simply spent much of my childhood and teenage years in total observation mode, fairly isolated, so through observation I suppose I learned and decided on what I thought were good ways of handling things, and what were bad ways; what worked, and what did not.
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  8. #8
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    I try less to "do unto others as I would have them do into me".. and more like, "do unto others as they would like be to done unto".

    It's of course not always easy.

  9. #9
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    my ESFJ mom

    and learning to communicate with adults as a child. i was in a hospital for much of my very early life and during my whole childhood felt more comfortable around adults than other children.

    i imagine various ethical principles along the way, too.

  10. #10
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    I guess I didn't have the best rolemodels around me, I guess I kind of just figured it out for myself.
    I can relate to what a lot of you are saying about being kind to the kids that were rejected by the other kids. Actually, I always felt like I was one of those kids. I spent (still spend) a lot of time observing others, I've learned a lot about life by seeing others' mistakes. & It was just always common sense for me to treat others with kindness and respect.

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