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  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I had Fe role models - my ISFJ mom & ESFJ grandma. What I didn't have was a good Fi role model. This left me feeling like I was always WRONG. I tended to guard and celebrate my individuality. My childhood motivations were not of the diplomatic nature. It was more about finding some outlet for my feelings, some way to replicate my ideals in reality, etc.

    I was a rather angsty, moody teen, but there were some signs of diplomacy starting to appear, especially with friends (much moreso than family). I think I had to go this full circle of rejecting what I saw as phony Fe at the time and then evaluating my own sense of what is good/bad to accept some of those Fe standards of dealing with people. I had to make it authentic for myself & fit it into my internal value system.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #12
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    "I realize who's helped me and what they've done to help me. Maybe I can pass that along, because many people are worth it."

    and

    "I realize who's hurt me and what they did to hurt me. I'd like to break the cycle."

  3. #13
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I had Fe role models - my ISFJ mom & ESFJ grandma. What I didn't have was a good Fi role model. This left me feeling like I was always WRONG. I tended to guard and celebrate my individuality. My childhood motivations were not of the diplomatic nature. It was more about finding some outlet for my feelings, some way to replicate my ideals in reality, etc.

    I was a rather angsty, moody teen, but there were some signs of diplomacy starting to appear, especially with friends (much moreso than family). I think I had to go this full circle of rejecting what I saw as phony Fe at the time and then evaluating my own sense of what is good/bad to accept some of those Fe standards of dealing with people. I had to make it authentic for myself & fit it into my internal value system.
    I just had a chat with my ENFP friend, and we came to understand that in Fi NFs, Ne is what makes them helpful and compassionate (open-mindedness and respect) while Fe will take part in it for NFJs.
    It has to be true, because SFPs don't have that much empathy, and their Fi can be somewhat egocentric at times.
    Last edited by KLessard; 08-27-2010 at 03:38 PM.

  4. #14
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    I just had a chat with my ENFP friend, and we came to understand that in Fi NFs, Ne is what makes them helpful and compassionate (natural, strong inner values of loyalty and integrity) while Fe will take part in it for NFJs.
    It has to be true, because SFPs don't have that much empathy, and their Fi can be somewhat egocentric at times.
    Ne is how I make the connections between how I feel, my ideals and values, and the world. It's how I see other perspectives, so my feeling can be applied metaphorically and I grasp feelings I've never even had. I have to be careful not to underestimate real experience, however.

    I don't see SFPs as non-empathetic at all. I just see them as more experienced focused, which can make them less understanding in situations they are not familiar with, but very good in situations they are familiar with, especially when it comes to providing practical solutions.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #15
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I just see them [SFPs] as more experience-focused, which can make them less understanding in situations they are not familiar with, but very good in situations they are familiar with, especially when it comes to providing practical solutions.

    True.
    But I have sometimes seen them act and speak in ways that showed how only their own feelings applied and they were blind to others' feelings or wishes. I have never seen NFPs doing this. My ENFP friend had noticed the same thing, and she was annoyed about it.

    Here's an example and I've had similar stories happening to me and close relations many times. My family was supposed to go apple-picking with my ISFP niece last fall. She had manifested the wish to come with us when we'd talked about it, and we waited to go on a day she would be free. On the apple-picking day, we waited for her and she never came to join us. So we ended up going without her. She didn't call to explain or anything. Afterwards, we found out she had decided to spend the afternoon with friends. In my opinion, this flakiness is Fi-related. The SFP doesn't feel like going anymore, has changed his mind or has found something more interesting to do at the moment. He goes for it, and doesn't consider how disrespectful this can be for the people who were waiting and had done what they could to accomodate him.

    On another note: my pastor's wife is ESFP and she has often said to me she isn't a compassionate person. She can't stand whiny people. SFPs think it is useless to wallow in sad feelings, and you must move on.

  6. #16
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    ESFPs would dish it out like that sometimes (I think it's Te). ISFPs are on the optimistic end, but I don't think they do that.. they're mostly quiet.

    On a sidenote, I find that ESFJs dwell on sad things as much as ENFJs. Although an ENFJ and myself can vent to each other and sometimes attribute big importance to small stuff. Where an event becomes an examination about people or life in general. ESFJs might vent about the small stuff and keep it at that (not that I think that makes it any less important..it's all the same thing.. they deserve an ear too ).

  7. #17
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I had Fe role models - my ISFJ mom & ESFJ grandma. What I didn't have was a good Fi role model. This left me feeling like I was always WRONG.
    That's very interesting. My ENFP friend also shared with me how she felt that her SJ relatives' Fe was phony and inconsiderate.

    In my case, my whole family uses Fi. My mother is ESTJ, my late father was INFP, my sister is ENFP and my big brother ISTJ. I sometimes felt hurt at how everything was filtered through their own feelings and wishes (this applies to the STJs, the NFPs didn't make me feel that way), and very rare attempts were made at trying to understand me or what I needed or wished. My needs and wishes were different from theirs, but they didn't seem to care. And being INFJ, communicating those needs was difficult, and when I tried and objected, my mother punished me for being rebellious.
    When this happened, I felt so bad because it made me feel selfish for wanting to have my perspective considered as well.
    Last edited by KLessard; 08-27-2010 at 10:30 PM.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    Here's an example and I've had similar stories happening to me and close relations many times. My family was supposed to go apple-picking with my ISFP niece last fall. She had manifested the wish to come with us when we'd talked about it, and we waited to go on a day she would be free. On the apple-picking day, we waited for her and she never came to join us. So we ended up going without her. She didn't call to explain or anything. Afterwards, we found out she had decided to spend the afternoon with friends. In my opinion, this flakiness is Fi-related. The SFP doesn't feel like going anymore, has changed his mind or has found something more interesting to do at the moment. He goes for it, and doesn't consider how disrespectful this can be for the people who were waiting and had done what they could to accomodate him.

    On another note: my pastor's wife is ESFP and she has often said to me she isn't a compassionate person. She can't stand whiny people. SFPs think it is useless to wallow in sad feelings, and you must move on.
    I truly believe a person should be free to change as 'the spirit' moves them. I dislike making promises, [generally] speaking in absolutes, or having to decide on anything until it's happening in the actual moment. But what actually keeps me from following all of my impulses at the expense of others happens to be Fi. I'll scold myself for being too selfish and possibly hurting others, because both of those things are against my values. I'd have no choice but to suck it up and go.

    Two ESFPs I know are the same way; very optimistic, very happy-go-lucky, short memory, hate to be brought down by 'whiners' and pessimists. On the other hand, so are several of the xSFJs I know. I'm the only one who doesn't mind dealing with people who are less than very positive and forward-moving.

    Quote Originally Posted by KLessard View Post
    It has to be true, because SFPs don't have that much empathy, and their Fi can be somewhat egocentric at times.
    I will concede to the bolded, but I consider myself very empathetic, almost to a fault. I simply don't go out of my way to help and be involved with others unless I'm super stressed.


    Sorry for crashing the thread, by the way.

  9. #19
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    I simply don't go out of my way to help and be involved with others unless I'm super stressed.
    I've often wanted to ask SPs: "What does sacrifice mean to you?"

    I suppose that NFs' view of empathy isn't only about feeling what the other is feeling. What are you doing about it? But the dictionary's definition is limited to the feeling itself.

  10. #20
    Aspiring Troens Ridder KLessard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    But what actually keeps me from following all of my impulses at the expense of others happens to be Fi.
    Can you tell us more about this?
    And what would make the impulses irresistible? Se?

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