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  1. #11
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't know whether it's a type thing or not, but I have had a number of INFP friends who would invest a lot in people who later failed them... and I know that I was able to look at those people and, while not judgmental, I could see those flaws a mile away. It took some discussions with those INFPs to realize they hadn't seen what I had seen; I had just assumed they had, but were making a choice to look at the person differently / focus on something else.

    Maybe there are just some basic assumptions about humanity, how people work, what people want, etc., that get in the way here. I tend to see people, while unique, as machines (I hate that word but am not sure what word to use) within larger systems, and so I analyze them, know the pro's and con's and typical behavioral range of each piece, and then have a fairly good awareness of how they will respond in particular environments. It's typically accurate; I'm not usually caught off-guard, and when I am, I immediately reassess. The impersonal assessment helps to negate any personal bias I might have, what I'd like to see, my feelings toward the person, etc.

    The INFPs I've known see more the ideal of who a person could be and focus on that as the reality, assuming the person wants to be that; they've also discounted "warning signs" or written them off as anomalies when often they were more primary traits of the individual in question.

    I can't speak for whole types of people, but it does sound like you'd benefit from having a few people whose opinion you'd trust, who you can bounce your ideas off regarding potential relational investments you'd like to make... people you'd like to invest your energy and time in.
    That is interesting, Jennifer.

    For me, I idealize my romantic interests and strangers, but not my friends. I am actually pretty hard on my friends. If they do something unethical, I sort of make a mark in my mental database and see if it is acceptable or not based on the wider context, their other traits, etc.

    None of my friends have ever betrayed me, but I keep a very small close-knit circle. I do have friends who forgives people easily - she's ESFP. For her, I think she needs that constant stimulation and what she deems forgivable is different from what I deem forgivable. What is forgivable for her is completely unacceptable for me. And what she finds unacceptable, I was puzzled by it.

    Because of my past, I am very cynical and hold very low expectations of people so I am constantly on guard. My over-cynicalism is actually causing me a great deal of anxiety. I have to remind myself that they are not doing it to hurt me or make me mad - it's just a logical step that makes complete sense in their framework. Instead of being mad at everyone, I am learning to set up my own boundaries and enforcing those boundaries so I know what is okay by me, and they know what is okay and what is not instead of just pushing people out.

    I do have a weaker, blurry spot for serious romantic interests though but that happens like once every two-three years. I do ask for my friends' opinions regarding that but I am touchy about it as I have my own logical framework. For me, I need to come to my own conclusions.

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC View Post
    THIS! I don't know why seeing something put in words makes me feel sane again. Thank you. That is what my friends are trying to tell me. But is it a solution to be dependent on other's for opinions? (And the reason it surprised me and I am taking note is I thought myself a good judge of character of a person because I truly want good friends of character. So maybe it shook my self-concept in this light?)
    Probably that last statement is correct. Maybe you also had a self-concept that wasn't totally correct.

    That's nothing to feel bad about. I have tried very hard to have an "accurate" self-concept, and even with all my ruthlessness in scrutinizing myself, I've still found myself caught sometimes by another person's observations of me -- I had to confess that at least some (if not all) of what they saw was part of me and I had been viewing myself through a blurry lens. I even remember incidents on this forum. (I think Victor pegged me good a month ago on something... ugh. But it's all stuff I had to accept.)

    I do not see it as dependent on others to be able to acknowledge areas you've discovered you're not as capable in and asking your friends for their opinions and observations. None of us are good at everything, even if there are things we might be extremely good at. We balance this out by having others in our life who act as mirrors, or other viewpoints, so that we don't accidentally miss something. This is how much of the business world works; and I can say I'm part of a "team" in my current work environment, and even though each one of us is very smart on our own, it's amazing how we benefit from sitting together and brainstorming through a problem together. No one catches everything, and sometimes we're just not good at a particular aspect of a problem that someone else might be very good at analyzing.

    I would just guess that you are a good judge of possibility in someone; you can see who they might become if things weren't in the way; you also see the person you would hope they would become. It's just that sometimes the things in the way are so large that they prevent that level of actualization. People are very human, and sometimes they have a lot of distance they have to cover before even having a shot at attempting to meet their true potential.

    In the meanwhile, I think it's good to be able to relate to someone as they currently are, even while seeing who they could be. Your friends could probably help you with that.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't know whether it's a type thing or not, but I have had a number of INFP friends who would invest a lot in people who later failed them... and I know that I was able to look at those people and, while not judgmental, I could see those flaws a mile away. It took some discussions with those INFPs to realize they hadn't seen what I had seen; I had just assumed they had, but were making a choice to look at the person differently / focus on something else.

    Maybe there are just some basic assumptions about humanity, how people work, what people want, etc., that get in the way here.I tend to see people, while unique, as machines(I hate that word but am not sure what word to use) within larger systems, and so I analyze them, know the pro's and con's and typical behavioral range of each piece, and then have a fairly good awareness of how they will respond in particular environments. It's typically accurate; I'm not usually caught off-guard, and when I am, I immediately reassess. The impersonal assessment helps to negate any personal bias I might have, what I'd like to see, my feelings toward the person, etc.

    The INFPs I've known see more the ideal of who a person could be and focus on that as the reality, assuming the person wants to be that; they've also discounted "warning signs" or written them off as anomalies when often they were more primary traits of the individual in question.

    I can't speak for whole types of people, but it does sound like you'd benefit from having a few people whose opinion you'd trust, who you can bounce your ideas off regarding potential relational investments you'd like to make... people you'd like to invest your energy and time in.
    I've had many frinds who were imperfect. I wasn't under a cloud or not seeing clearly when I chose them. I didn't only see only what I wanted to see. What is the harm of having flawed friends? I'll ask for a Curriculum Vita next time...

  4. #14
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    I'm am an ENFJ and for the most part, I analyze people A LOT and I usually try to take note of people's flaws. It's more like "Do the benefits of the friendship outweigh the negatives of the person?" One lesson I learned was "never put anyone on a pedestal". If you can pinpoint their flaws, it can help one to have a balanced view of someone.

  5. #15
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    i dunno, I'm in the same boat as Rebe, but i'm pretty "hard" on my friends i guess you could say. Sure i put a lot of energy into initially getting to know people, but I'm good at figuring out if they're someone I want to keep real close or not after a while, and many remain acquaintances. But how else am I going to confirm the things i've heard if i don't give someone a chance?

    Now of course certain weaknesses can develop or strengthen over time depending on the situation and they may come back to haunt me later, but that's the point: these things are fluid. Sometimes people have stages in their life, be it trashy, flaky, whatever. If that's the case then i'll re-evaluate when the time comes and act accordingly as best as i can.

    I simply don't take things like this at face value anymore. Overall i'm good with people and I trust that. maybe it's because the only times I've been really burned is when I trusted someone else's judgment over mine but if anything I don't trust myself enough with my judgment of character.

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC View Post
    I guess my worry is that I really did not see these things about people. Missing negatives about people could be dangerous right?

    And these good friends were helping me as the effects were negative from not seeing the "obvious" traits about people I bring into my life when things played out. And more than one friend or situation confirmed the weakness/trait/whatever you call it.
    have you been burned by missing people's negative traits in the past, or are concerned because you seem to miss things that other people have caught onto, or both? Or neither?
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  6. #16
    Peaced Quay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I don't know whether it's a type thing or not, but I have had a number of INFP friends who would invest a lot in people who later failed them... and I know that I was able to look at those people and, while not judgmental, I could see those flaws a mile away. It took some discussions with those INFPs to realize they hadn't seen what I had seen; I had just assumed they had, but were making a choice to look at the person differently / focus on something else.

    Guilty... and not certain about my type really (does it matter) but I still have a bad track record in this area.

    In these situations I've always gotten bitten in the ass really hard and then turned around to see a mutt was just that...a mutt

    As I get older, I get a little more J-ey, so nowadays I am immediately deconstructing people as they approach me.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    I've had many frinds who were imperfect. I wasn't under a cloud or not seeing clearly when I chose them. I didn't only see only what I wanted to see. What is the harm of having flawed friends? I'll ask for a Curriculum Vita next time...
    Well, that's fine. I limited my comments to being about NF friends I know IRL, specifically INFPs (because that's where I had witnessed it), and it was incidents I had witnessed first-hand. The NFJs tended to respond differently -- the INFJs as a group were far more wary to the point of keeping their personal feelings very hidden, the ENFJs far more likely to be angry with the person when their judgment was wrong.

    I can't say it's indicative of everyone of a particular type, we're all individuals. But I did see the qualities of what the OP was describing in my friends.

    And yeah, I think we have to acknowledge that people are people and thus imperfect.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  8. #18
    Senior Member Neutralpov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    Sometimes people have stages in their life, be it trashy, flaky, whatever. If that's the case then i'll re-evaluate when the time comes and act accordingly as best as i can.

    I simply don't take things like this at face value anymore. Overall i'm good with people and I trust that. maybe it's because the only times I've been really burned is when I trusted someone else's judgment over mine but if anything I don't trust myself enough with my judgment of character.

    have you been burned by missing people's negative traits in the past, or are concerned because you seem to miss things that other people have caught onto, or both? Or neither?
    I like what you said about trusting that you are good with people. I think I am certain I am as well. And to answer yes I was burned once- the lack of effort person but I will say that my weakness was lack of boundaries and I now have really had a year of great ones.

    The weird part is that with me I have read posts on Typology central (every ENFJ mention in fact) and I see what I think my life mirrors that you can't downshift a friend from close to just hangout or activity partner once you've "shared" so to speak. So the inability to see these weakness- I want to develop- and have healthy relationships with full knowledge and not be surprised or "failed" later on. Maybe I am seeing it as the skill of objective analysis after reading this thread. Maybe everything is personal and subjective so I see connection and sharing and then don't see the rest? Still pondering this all week. Also this is combined with door-slamming which is no longer in my personal policy list so just being failed and walking really isn't mature I want to build good boundaries and attachment because of my accurate views of people that allows for the weaknesses-BUT NOT people who I genuinely should excuse or judge- if that makes sense.

    Ultimately I want to accurately size up these traits/weaknesses so that I can judge impact and levels of friendship best independently.

    Oh and in #3 the trashy girl my friend who pulled me aside was RIGHT! This past weekend she got in a physical fight while out with us! Never saw that coming she is like a middle school teacher! (my good friend who warned me saw her exchanging words a little in the previous times we had been out to which I responded that this girl had never done anything to me but be appropriate and I didn't see that this "trashy girl" would ever risk more...) BOY was my trusted friend right though.
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