User Tag List

First 273536373839 Last

Results 361 to 370 of 432

Thread: Ask an ENFP

  1. #361
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    7,371

    Default

    but why
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  2. #362
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    but why

    haha


    *looks into the future*

    phobik and Starry have been banned for a period of one week for actually being PeJi posting clearly off topic fluff.

    Because Je.

  3. #363
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    7,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    haha


    *looks into the future*

    phobik and Starry have been banned for a period of one week for actually being PeJi posting clearly off topic fluff.

    Because Je.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.
    Likes Starry liked this post

  4. #364
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Actually, I'm quite proud of the Champion part of my character

    But sure, most people don't like it, since suddenly the easy going silly person who mostly has entertainment value takes a hard stand, omg, actually is able to be serious about something, and stand up for it. They especially don't enjoy the easy goingness being revoked as it's kind of taken for granted. And of course, where did their entertainment go?

    I guess it is sort of understandable - changing your role with people goes against their expectations and (sudden) big changes are never something people can appreciate
    I'm not talking about "standing up for your beliefs". I'm talking about the convictions so ironclad that the ENFP is convinced that anyone who disagrees absolutely must be an awful person, that there could not possibly be any legitimate reason for someone to disagree. Such ENFPs tend to go from "agreeable" straight to "nuclear" without any shades of gray, without any room for compromise, where there is nothing left to do but "fight", and you're either with them or against them.

    Also, I'm not talking about all ENFPs, but rather an extreme that is somewhat common for ENFPs. Personally, I've severed one friendship with one such ENFP (not on this forum) because her cause was everything to her, and she was full of bile and hatred for anyone with opposing views. For most ENFPs of my acquaintance, it's more like eggshells/landmines: it will hit by surprise because they usually don't make a big deal out of it, and it is usually very awkward because they get so worked up it's difficult to communicate with them when it happens. I admire standing up for beliefs, I don't admire abusing the people around you who happen to cross the line however inadvertently.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  5. #365
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,658

    Default

    I've done that. Not the condemning and hatred part, but the whole incredulous 'how...can you *NOT* see this is important?' part because it is truly baffling to me. And yes, the frustration at the apathy or in some cases downright sabotage can make one rage. And yes, people do take it really personally that you dare to go intense and passionate about a subject and take it as a personal attack, despite the fact that they often were curious enough to ask you about it in the first place.

    I don't condone vilifying others, don't get me wrong. But Ive done the whole 'i don't make a big deal out of it ' and have gotten in that sticky situation of communication failure due to the intensity I summon when that topic does hit accidentally. And it kind of feels like you're screwed either way. If you're talking about it up front with passion, you get labelled as preaching and judgemental, if you don't and the topic comes up, people look at you like you're a nutcase and blame you for ambushing them.

    I've even tried walking away and refusing the conversation - people keep prodding til you do go there and then they get pissed that you went there, and the 'wow, she's nuts' look is right there again. And if you just keep it all to yourself, they wonder what you're hiding and why you're never serious or never care about anything.

    There is no winning

    i've gotten to the point where I bottle up that passion and have actual rehearsed responses that sound calm and rational and satisfying so they'll leave me alone since they don't really care anyways on these topics. I keep the real passion for a venue of my choosing, with the right audience, that actually appreciates it and has been properly vetted. It's regrettable to have to be this calculated in a western world that supposedly supports freedom of speech, tbh.

    People just suck at dealing with intense emotions, ime. It makes them uncomfortable, antsy and they honestly don't know what to do with it. I never got that as it seriously hampers honesty and integrity, but I've learned the hard way that people just freak otherwise. And label you irrational and nuts. But sure, it's their right to opt out of a conversation that makes them uncomfortable, I suppose - even if they asked for it themselves.

    It's funny though - when I want to opt out of things in life that are hard and uncomfortable for me, I'm told by society to 'grow up already and face reality cos this is how things are'. Feels just a tad hypocritical that we all need to lie to ourselves about being these rational creatures coz people rather not deal with that mess.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  6. #366
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7W6 sp/sx
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    4,797

    Default

    Always seems odd to me that some people think I am very feisty and go getting and 'wo betide anyone who gets in your way when you are on a mission'. It's the part of me that most makes me sometimes feel I am esfp. Though I do realise that Umlauu's explanation could be key here. It could be sheer bloody minded ness. Jack explained to me that ESFP's (or at least SEE) can argue all day long-comfortably, it's a natural position of theirs which they are very comfortable in. So that puts things into perspective for me because I would be exhausted if I had to do that. I must have retreat and revive space. Though sometimes I can go on for long stints.


    Edit: I do also post in the political threads sometimes. Probably just as much as the relationships ones. Oddly I do not tend to post in the philosophy threads much at all. I never post in food threads, occasionally in health threads or astronomy/science threads.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"
    Likes Starry, SearchingforPeace, Chanaynay liked this post

  7. #367
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    There is no winning


    I know where it comes from, and I'm usually VERY forgiving of it. Emotional intensity is a bitch. It is problematic not because I can't tolerate it or I think the person is being preachy. It's problematic either because it's persistent (in terms of the vilifying people case), or - more often - because there is a strong reluctance to go back to it and try to resolve it with clearer heads so it remains a background problem that can continue to blow up unintentionally. Very often, I don't disagree so much as mostly agree, but the inability of the ENFP in the grip of this to hear even slightly different opinions gets in the way. (It's very much an inferior Si "in the grip" situation as per Naomi Quenk.)

    Part of this is ENFP traits, part of it is purely being human. The human principle is this: we tend to suck at those things we avoid doing. We avoid them because we suck at them, and we suck at them because we avoid them. The ENFP aspect is that it's this particular passionate devotion to a cause that triggers this suck/avoid dynamic. Other personalities have different suck/avoid cycles.

    It's funny though - when I want to opt out of things in life that are hard and uncomfortable for me, I'm told by society to 'grow up already and face reality cos this is how things are'. Feels just a tad hypocritical that we all need to lie to ourselves about being these rational creatures coz people rather not deal with that mess.
    Exactly.

    The need isn't to be rational, but to properly integrate passion with rationality. Passion without rationality is reckless and often destructive. Rationality without passion is static and directionless. Interestingly, people with brain damage to their emotional centers don't feel emotion, but ALSO find it very difficult to make a decision, in spite of being able to rationally go through all the pros and cons.

    Also related: Kahlil Gibran On Reason and Passion

    On Reason and Passion

    Kahlil Gibran

    Your soul is oftentimes a battlefield, upon which your reason and your judgment wage war against your passion and your appetite.
    Would that I could be the peacemaker in your soul, that I might turn the discord and the rivalry of your elements into oneness and melody.
    But how shall I, unless you yourselves be also the peacemakers, nay, the lovers of all your elements?

    Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your seafaring soul. If either your sails or your rudder be broken, you can but toss and drift, or else be held at a standstill in mid-seas.
    For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining; and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction.
    Therefore let your soul exalt your reason to the height of passion, that it may sing;
    And let it direct your passion with reason, that your passion may live through its own daily resurrection, and like the phoenix rise above its own ashes.

    I would have you consider your judgment and your appetite even as you would two loved guests in your house.
    Surely you would not honour one guest above the other; for he who is more mindful of one loses the love and the faith of both.

    Among the hills, when you sit in the cool shade of the white poplars, sharing the peace and serenity of distant fields and meadows -- then let your heart say in silence, "God rests in reason."
    And when the storm comes, and the mighty wind shakes the forest, and thunder and lightning proclaim the majesty of the sky -- then let your heart say in awe, "God moves in passion."
    And since you are a breath in God's sphere, and a leaf in God's forest, you too should rest in reason and move in passion.

    Quote Originally Posted by HelenOfTroy View Post
    It could be sheer bloody minded ness.
    Yeah, there's a definite "no more Mr. Nice Guy" vibe to these episodes. Or as per my sig, "beware the fury of a patient man".
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #368
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    9,745

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yes, ENFPs can be very enthusiastic about a chosen cause, to the point that they will totally drop their light and fluffy image and become rather mean and nasty about it. It's their worst trait in my opinion: perfectly reasonable people who can become utterly irrational about any point that contradicts their chosen cause.
    Yes. Very much so. But here is the kicker, at least with my ENFP's. After sticking to their guns and even getting mean and nasty about it, I'll get this type of question from at least one of them....

    Do you think (person they got mean and nasty with) hates me now?
    No.
    How can you be sure?
    Because you've been like this on these topics with them before and they don't ever seem to have a lingering issue with it.
    Are you sure?
    No, I'm not 100% sure. I'm just saying that, going by past behavior, I don't think so.
    Oh god they hate me.
    Are you more worried about people hating you or standing up for your beliefs that someone is going to disagree with at some point? Because you can't have both.


    What do you do here? I dunno.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
    Likes Starry liked this post

  9. #369
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    Enfp
    Enneagram
    497 sx/so
    Socionics
    IEE Fi
    Posts
    14,658

    Default

    I have no problem nor see a problem with that kind of intensity, myself. Granted, it can get in the way of communication, often because the person is trying to convey too much too fast due to the eagerness regarding the topic. And sure, once you overcommit ,it's hard to go back and let go of your position so that is certainly a pitfall.

    If I understand you correctly, you are saying that it's the ENFP that is avoiding integrating passion into rationality. I disagree - in my own experience ,I was more than willing to integrate it, I just didn't always succeed which was exacerbated by the negative and wrongful interpretation of my intensity by the other party. I'll admit that this is less than pleasant for the other party often and of course, it shouldn't go unchecked, and the request for rationality and depth, while re-engaging that Ne instead of getting stuck in Si definitely is a valid one. However, in most cases, that stuff is like demanded right there at mastery level, or the conversation gets backed off of as 'too irrational/emotional/insert other excuse for not wanting to go near intense emotions coz it's something I don't wanna handle even though I'm demanding someone else adjust their communication style and learn.

    Meanwhile, on the ENFP's side, that kind of experience does make you then start avoiding by keeping intensity bottled up instead of giving it free reign and learn how to properly integrate with rationality (and for that matter, the expression of rationality once developed, because expressing it is a very different thing than actually having access to it and being aware of it)

    Personally, I don't see intensity as something to be tempered by rational thought. Quite on the contrary. For me, it's packed with information I'd rather have access to, on top of rational thought (something that automatically comes with practice). The rational thought comes anyways if you hear them out and actually acknowledge their pov and make them feel heard - they'll calm down and things start to flow, questions provoke their thoughts and they start filling in the gaps in their NeFi communication with Te - which is how it's supposed to work. However, this one-on-one style is just so bloody hard to come by though due to our society, so it's a real treat when I do meet someone and I'm able to make them feel safe enough to actually *rant* and really genuinely speak their mind.

    I see people not being able to handle intensity and running scared as something *they* avoid and suck at, tbh. Or they don't value it and want the short cut without what they consider 'the mess'.

    But society largely disagrees, it would seem. Highly ironic. So these days I (try and) pretend to be cool, strip my convo's of the extra intel that intensity would provide and do the rational translation thing in stead (which honestly feels a lot like taking NeFi and garble it up by using Te(si) to translate it and make it less scary. It seriously loses something in translation but it's all the target audience can handle or they'll refuse to read/hear the material - the eternal dilemma/frustration of a translator).

    Anycase, I'll leave it at that
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  10. #370
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I have no problem nor see a problem with that kind of intensity, myself. Granted, it can get in the way of communication, often because the person is trying to convey too much too fast due to the eagerness regarding the topic. And sure, once you overcommit ,it's hard to go back and let go of your position so that is certainly a pitfall.

    If I understand you correctly, you are saying that it's the ENFP that is avoiding integrating passion into rationality. I disagree - in my own experience ,I was more than willing to integrate it, I just didn't always succeed which was exacerbated by the negative and wrongful interpretation of my intensity by the other party. I'll admit that this is less than pleasant for the other party often and of course, it shouldn't go unchecked, and the request for rationality and depth, while re-engaging that Ne instead of getting stuck in Si definitely is a valid one. However, in most cases, that stuff is like demanded right there at mastery level, or the conversation gets backed off of as 'too irrational/emotional/insert other excuse for not wanting to go near intense emotions coz it's something I don't wanna handle even though I'm demanding someone else adjust their communication style and learn.

    Meanwhile, on the ENFP's side, that kind of experience does make you then start avoiding by keeping intensity bottled up instead of giving it free reign and learn how to properly integrate with rationality (and for that matter, the expression of rationality once developed, because expressing it is a very different thing than actually having access to it and being aware of it)

    Personally, I don't see intensity as something to be tempered by rational thought. Quite on the contrary. For me, it's packed with information I'd rather have access to, on top of rational thought (something that automatically comes with practice). The rational thought comes anyways if you hear them out and actually acknowledge their pov and make them feel heard - they'll calm down and things start to flow, questions provoke their thoughts and they start filling in the gaps in their NeFi communication with Te - which is how it's supposed to work. However, this one-on-one style is just so bloody hard to come by though due to our society, so it's a real treat when I do meet someone and I'm able to make them feel safe enough to actually *rant* and really genuinely speak their mind.

    I see people not being able to handle intensity and running scared as something *they* avoid and suck at, tbh. Or they don't value it and want the short cut without what they consider 'the mess'.

    But society largely disagrees, it would seem. Highly ironic. So these days I (try and) pretend to be cool, strip my convo's of the extra intel that intensity would provide and do the rational translation thing in stead (which honestly feels a lot like taking NeFi and garble it up by using Te(si) to translate it and make it less scary. It seriously loses something in translation but it's all the target audience can handle or they'll refuse to read/hear the material - the eternal dilemma/frustration of a translator).

    Anycase, I'll leave it at that
    As long as you don't expect me to always be intense with you, I don't see it as a big deal. It shows who a person is, what they are like and you either accept them or not.

    I know I may question the intensity of my ENFP GF, she has took a small thing and blew it out of proportion and I ground her. I just ground her with reality, if she is still just as intense she has the data and it's her choice. It's mostly when she went crazy left field. Now she just took a test and did good, it's a start to a long road, but it's a good obstacle to overcome and a pretty big big one so complete and utter intensity and passion is not tempered. But if she were to take that and predict the future with it with to great an intensity I will let her know she still has a long road and shouldn't count her chickens before they hatch. But her intensity for the accomplishment is deserved and have at it.

    I do see people who will knock intensity because they don't want to "feel" it so they knock you down, and then when they want to they expect you to join in. Annoying as hell.

    Same thing can be said for freedom...individuals will allow freedom when they want and try to supress when they dont. Those people are draining on society. Like negative emotional vampires.
    Im out, its been fun
    Likes Amargith liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Ask an ENFP anything
    By Lunar Light in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-26-2015, 08:00 AM
  2. [ENFP] Ask an ENFP
    By Raspberry_rain in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-20-2015, 12:50 PM
  3. Ask an ENFP.
    By Kensei in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 04-05-2015, 06:20 PM
  4. [ENFP] Ask an ENFP.. For real!
    By HotpinkHeatwave in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 06-25-2012, 10:02 PM
  5. Ask an ENFP, get a flirty answer
    By Amargith in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 115
    Last Post: 06-11-2009, 08:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO