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Thread: Ask an ENFP

  1. #291
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Where does that mean you do hang out?

    The Enneagram Institute??

    Doesn't their forum suck?



    I really never understood it.

    Why do you get like this?

    And why does it make you feel vulnerable?
    No, I mean here on the enneagram forum.

    Well, I probably never have gotten as extreme as your girlfriend- I'm an INFP sp/sx, after all. But it felt extreme to me. And I also have bipolar disorder so that muddies the waters a bit. I'm married to an ESFP 7w6, probably so/sx, so he kind of loves it when I'm like this.

    Why do I get like this? Shrug. I guess I have strong opinions, and it's kind of like flirting. I'd see it more like- 7: playful and 8: assertive and straight forward. I don't draw people into my world so I can crush them like idiots. I don't know your girlfriend so I can't speak for her, but I wonder how much of this is your perspective and how much of it is actually how she is/was. I relate more to what you say about your ESFP 783 friend, and I'm no ESFP 783.

  2. #292
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Just like to point out I'm 748...and seriously do not relate to any of this bullshit.

  3. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    No, I mean here on the enneagram forum.
    Oh, got it.

    I don't really think of them as separate.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Well, I probably never have gotten as extreme as your girlfriend- I'm an INFP sp/sx, after all. But it felt extreme to me. And I also have bipolar disorder so that muddies the waters a bit. I'm married to an ESFP 7w6, probably so/sx, so he kind of loves it when I'm like this.

    Why do I get like this? Shrug. I guess I have strong opinions, and it's kind of like flirting. I'd see it more like- 7: playful and 8: assertive and straight forward. I don't draw people into my world so I can crush them like idiots. I don't know your girlfriend so I can't speak for her, but I wonder how much of this is your perspective and how much of it is actually how she is/was. I relate more to what you say about your ESFP 783 friend, and I'm no ESFP 783.
    Yeah, I can see why you'd wonder that, cuz I wondered it myself at first.

    But after seeing it 3, 4, 5 times, I'm pretty sure I saw it clearly for what it was.

    As I said, there were plenty of times where she didn't do this, but enough times where she did.

    It seemed, to me, to have a certain "revenge against idiot men" quality to it, which was not out of character for her.

    Because of the negative relationship with her father, this seemed to be a very big part of her 478 "The Messenger" message.

    Like, it almost seemed like she thought she was setting things right in the universe by doing so, or something.

    But really, from my perspective, she was just taking her issues with her father out unnecessarily on men.

  4. #294
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    It seemed, to me, to have a certain "revenge against idiot men" quality to it, which was not out of character for her.
    Yeah, don't relate to that all. As I said, playful/flirty + assertive. I wouldn't call myself a bully or abusive but I can see how certain people would see it that way, so that's what I meant when I said I agreed to that. (Sometimes I gloss over the particulars in a message when I'm reading them, especially when I'm busy like I am today.)

    What I meant, more than anything, when I posted this was:

    Blind Spot: You can be so focused on your opinions, insights and what is new and profound that your freedom seeking nature can come across as arrogant, resistant, and/or uncooperative.

    I get excited by the new and profound and my insights and I know I can make these declarative statements in the midst of my excitement that can be off-putting to others. For some reason other people see that as arrogant or uncooperative, but I think I'm just talking like a normal person. That's how it's a blindspot.

    The more I carefully read what you write about your ex is well- she's unhealthy, and I wonder if you got her type right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Just like to point out I'm 748...and seriously do not relate to any of this bullshit.
    I'm not saying, by any means, that this is how it would manifest in every 748, or anything.

    This is just one way -- of many -- that I saw "The Messenger" quality come out in her.

    Do you see yourself in this (which prompted the above):

    Blind Spot: You can be so focused on your opinions, insights and what is new and profound that your freedom seeking nature can come across as arrogant, resistant, and/or uncooperative.
    If so, how do you see it manifest for you?

    And, bear in mind, this is the negative side of "The Messenger" tritype, not the positive (which, obviously, exists as well).

  6. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm not saying, by any means, that this is how it would manifest in every 748, or anything.

    This is just one way -- of many -- that I saw "The Messenger" quality come out in her.

    Do you see yourself in this (which prompted the above):



    If so, how do you see it manifest for you?

    And, bear in mind, this is the negative side of "The Messenger" tritype, not the positive (which, obviously, exists as well).
    I would never make fun of another person omfg. Do you know how many fuckin bullies I have stood up to in my life on the behalf of others? Like the thought of anyone equating me with that behavior pisses me off.

    Yes, I relate to that blind spot. I get excited about ideas and in the process of sharing them forget to say please and thank you sometimes. Shoot me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Yeah, don't relate to that all. As I said, playful/flirty + assertive. I wouldn't call myself a bully or abusive but I can see how certain people would see it that way, so that's what I meant when I said I agreed to that. (Sometimes I gloss over the particulars in a message when I'm reading them, especially when I'm busy like I am today.)
    Yeah, the thing is, even in these more fucked-up scenarios, if I were to have confronted her about it, I almost guarantee that her initial defense would've been that she was just being playful/flirty + assertive. Guaranteed.

    In fact, I believe I did actually confront her about it one time, and I believe she did actually try and pull this defense. I wasn't having it, tho, and drilled into a bit deeper, and I don't think she ever really did it again after that (at least not in front of me).

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    What I meant, more than anything, when I posted this was:

    Blind Spot: You can be so focused on your opinions, insights and what is new and profound that your freedom seeking nature can come across as arrogant, resistant, and/or uncooperative.

    I get excited by the new and profound and I know I can make these declarative statements in the midst of my excitement that can be off-putting to others. For some reason other people see that as arrogant or uncooperative, but I think I'm just talking like a normal person. That's how it's a blindspot.
    You know what, giving that blind spot description a fresh look, I went to the unhealthiest example of how she manifested it.

    There were other ways, actually more common, more constant, really, that are like what you describe.

    She would get very enthusiastic about some new insight and make very strong declarative statements about it.

    Sorry, I just got into thinking about arrogant things she would do when we'd go out, and went to some of the darkest ones she'd do.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    The more I carefully read what you write about your ex is well- she's unhealthy, and I wonder if you got her type right.
    I definitely got her type right, and, yeah, she was unhealthy.

    She fit the e4 health level 7 description (and below) to a tee.

  8. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I would never make fun of another person omfg. Do you know how many fuckin bullies I have stood up to in my life on the behalf of others? Like the thought of anyone equating me with that behavior pisses me off.
    Understood.

    The weird thing is, she would say the same thing.

    And it was real. Like, she wasn't normally a bullying kinda person, and would genuinely despise that kind of behavior.

    But then she would pull shit like that (where, presumably, she thought she was picking on someone who deserved it, or something).

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Yes, I relate to that blind spot. I get excited about ideas and in the process of sharing them forget to say please and thank you sometimes. Shoot me.
    Yeah, as I said, I think I started thinking down the path of arrogance while being out, and went down a bit of a darker path than that statement necessarily implied (I do, though, think that the behavior she manifested does represent the dark side of that tritype, and that's why I went down that path, cuz it indeed had to do with this whole "The Messenger" archetype, and her "delivering that message" by making these people feel stupid -- like that was her message, that these people were idiots, and deserving of abuse [which, in turn, was obviously tied into the abuse she felt from her father]). / okay, that feels about far enough, I don't think I'm gunna do any more psychoanalyzing of this person today -- I genuinely apologize if this seemed a bit too much for anybody, I'm kinda just processing it all myself by writing it down

  9. #299
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Yeah, the thing is, even in these more fucked-up scenarios, if I were to have confronted her about it, I almost guarantee that her initial defense would've been that she was just being playful/flirty + assertive. Guaranteed.

    In fact, I believe I did actually confront her about it one time, and I believe she did actually try and pull this defense. I wasn't having it, tho, and drilled into a bit deeper, and I don't think she ever really did it again after that (at least not in front of me).
    Well I don't have any vendettas, especially to large groups of people, not by a long shot. And I haven't been really the way you said in years. At my most unhealthiest I was a big time jerk to some people I love very much and thankfully they forgave me for it. I was only a big time jerk, though, when I was manic so we are talking about seriously unhealthy behavior. Meds stopped all of that.

    I didn't mean that she wasn't a four, I was just wondering about the seven head type. But you've covered that and I have a birthday party to plan so I'd better get my shit together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Well I don't have any vendettas, especially to large groups of people, not by a long shot. And I haven't been really the way you said in years. At my most unhealthiest I was a big time jerk to some people I love very much and thankfully they forgave me for it. I was only a big time jerk, though, when I was manic so we are talking about seriously unhealthy behavior. Meds stopped all of that.
    Well, she didn't really have a vendetta against large groups of people... well, except for men. And goyem. And yet, she decided to be with a goy man. Go figure.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I didn't mean that she wasn't a four, I was just wondering about the seven head type.
    Oh, she was clearly a 7 head type.

    Starry has made the argument that she might've been a 7 core type.

    She was just far too depressive to possibly be a 7, imo.

    She very much had the 7 moments.

    But she very much had the 4 moments as well.

    I don't know if a 7 would let themselves have those 4 moments.

    But I could see a 4 letting themself have those 7 moments.

    She was likely cyclothymic, btw (her self-diagnosis)

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