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Thread: Ask an ENFP

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Rather, I get wary (in a similar way, but more subdued way, as I do with marm), and my paranoia alerts start going up.

    It's like, my ears perk up like a wild animal, as I start to suspect danger is near.
    I have no opinion on @brainheart's fixes yet - it takes me a LONG time and lots of interaction and a "aha!" moment to have strong opinions about people's types.

    But this is interesting, in and of itself, to hear of a 6 and how they might perceive a person like "danger is near."

    I don't feel that way with brainheart at all.. in fact I'm not sure I ever feel that? Maybe I do, I have to think about it.
    Very interesting insight into the perception of a core 6 though.
    I admire my 6 friend so much that sometimes I fail to recognize how 'paranoid' he actually is. And I can end up misreading his intentions. So when I read this, I thought of him and it put a few recent things into perspective.

    It's really interesting to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I have no opinion on @brainheart's fixes yet - it takes me a LONG time and lots of interaction and a "aha!" moment to have strong opinions about people's types.
    Yeah, I'm the same way.

    I don't get how people always have an opinion on people's/character's full type spectrum.

    I'm like, "uhhh... how bout I let you know when it comes to me?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    But this is interesting, in and of itself, to hear of a 6 and how they might perceive a person like "danger is near."

    I don't feel that way with brainheart at all.. in fact I'm not sure I ever feel that? Maybe I do, I have to think about it.
    Very interesting insight into the perception of a core 6 though.
    I admire my 6 friend so much that sometimes I fail to recognize how 'paranoid' he actually is. And I can end up misreading his intentions. So when I read this, I thought of him and it put a few recent things into perspective.

    It's really interesting to me.
    Yeah, it would be nice for the paranoia to not be there.

    I'm actually much better now than I was a year or two ago.

    Have kinda been on an upward trajectory wrt mental health.

    I do a lot of yoga, and am pretty solid on the purpose of the enneagram.

    I've come to realize I've essentially been doing a lot of self-therapy over the last 3-5 years.

    The funny thing is, I don't really want to lose some of the important things about being a 6.

    Like, what causes the paranoia, is the overthinking; but the overthinking, frankly, is what's made me fucking brilliant.

    It's awesome to be relaxed in the moment, to be present, and to respond from all your available information centers.

    But I don't see how I ever would've gotten to where I am if it weren't for the fact that I've been a lifelong overanalyzer.

    It's great to sink into 9, but if I'd just had a sort of 9 indolence (which is not what a 6 should really develop -- they should go 6 -> 9 -> 3 -- if they're integrating [but, even then, while 3 would've brought me back to proactivity, there's something about the 6 overthinking that is different, and has been fundamentally important])... I never would've gotten to where I'm at, I don't think...

    It's my ability to critically analyze basically anything that gives me my strength, and I don't think it's an entirely or solely unhealthy thing.

    That being said, I do think I've done just about enough of it*, and I would probably benefit more from that 6 -> 9 -> 3 virtuous spiral.

    In a certain regard. There's always times when it will be of use. But, as a 24/7 kinda thing, probably have done about enough of that

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    ^^I don't relate to this...at all really...and I'm curious now as to how many of the ENFP e7s do or would.

    I very much relate to what @uumlau was saying with regards to ENFPs and control but not the above. I mean, the above sorta defies my understanding of the ENFP which is due to either an e7 bias...or I'm completely misunderstanding what you are saying...

    It basically seems to me that you're saying..."I struggle with these kinds of everyday tasks/functions...and so because you're a.) good at dealing with these kinds of things and b.) I've completely screened the psychological shit out of you and subsequently allowed you the highest level of clearance... you can take care of me...and in exchange you can have your way with my body."

    ^^maybe I got that wrong but if I'm even somewhere in the ballpark I can tell you that isn't the ENFP e7 way at all. Like just the word "protects" from that last sentence I quoted causes me to cringe a tiny bit. I want a man that has my back... but he's not going to step-in and fight my battles for me. I've never had that desire for protection and while I've known a good many ENFP e7s in my lifetime...they've all been the same as me in this regard. A guy steps in to protect me or clean-up one of my messes? Gross. I've always been for the dude that has just as much completely unreasonable faith in my abilities as I do haha.

    I've often said though that ENFP 7s can out-resist-control e8s of any MBTI...any day of the week. 8s generally want to hit you with the absolute worst they've got and once they know you are strong enough to handle it...will become sweet, loving 2s. 7s can be frustrating for so many people because they want complete equality even in instances where it might not be warranted. "Can I remember to pay my bills on time? Nope. But you can't call attention to that because I'm remaining very optimistic about this. Someday, because of the magic of the universe, I just might."

    Even if you think you are controlling a 7 you really aren't. The two types of responses I've seen over and over again are what is referred to as *flashes of anger* ...or just as likely the 7 that appears completely unaware of attempts to control them but are totally aware and have become waves that you can't pin down to the beach.


    I don't relate to the lyrics of this song at all...but there's something in this 'can't be pinned down' quality (no ownership) that I hear in this song that makes me think of what it would be like to be in a relationship with an unhealthy male or female 7.

    yep yep all of this...altho i'm quite sure amar has the very romantic idea of partners taking "care" of each other...which i get in a sort of far off dreamy way...like mergy sxness way of completely having each others back and will turn into fierce lioness to protect..sort of idea...out there...or deep in there somewhere but reality...like for real for real...someone "protecting me" sounds completely patronizing.

    must be a type 7 thing..do not dare see me as weak or in any way someone that needs to be managed.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I have no opinion on @brainheart's fixes yet - it takes me a LONG time and lots of interaction and a "aha!" moment to have strong opinions about people's types.

    But this is interesting, in and of itself, to hear of a 6 and how they might perceive a person like "danger is near."

    I don't feel that way with brainheart at all.. in fact I'm not sure I ever feel that? Maybe I do, I have to think about it.
    Very interesting insight into the perception of a core 6 though.
    I admire my 6 friend so much that sometimes I fail to recognize how 'paranoid' he actually is. And I can end up misreading his intentions. So when I read this, I thought of him and it put a few recent things into perspective.

    It's really interesting to me.
    that was an interesting peek into a type 6 processing but yeah i don't have that either. brainhart seems super mega chill to me actually. i imagine that she can be blunt in a sort of unaffected way but don't find her to be the least bit pissy or over reactive.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #285
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    @Zarathustra, that's really funny to me that you get that impression of me. I've never had anyone say that of me. Very interesting. I typically get more what @Animal and @Lady_X say...

    Danger is near.... ha ha. The funniest thing is that I never even think like that. I'm about the furthest thing from a paranoid person. (and the 4w4-4w4 thing is actually a total joke, like a tongue in cheek deal).

    So much of what I say on here is just me being playful, but I guess it can be misinterpreted because you don't see me talking.

    Wow. The wildest thing actually is that I like you, and I got the impression from you that you liked me too. Ah, forums....

    There was something on that Fauvre 478 description that a good friend of mine (a self typed 461, and I agree) said was 'totally me', though, and I can see how that could bug people-

    Blind Spot: You can be so focused on your opinions, insights and what is new and profound that your freedom seeking nature can come across as arrogant, resistant, and/or uncooperative.
    Funny thing is I don't realize I'm being that way at all. I think I'm just being goofy, or as lady x said so well, blunt in an unaffected way....


    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post

    Oh, my family, friends and boyfriends call me "it" lol.. (ie, "Is it hungry? How is it feeling?") because I literally respond to things I don't want to do by hissing. Among other animal-like habits.
    This is adorable. My kid hisses too. And my mom told me once she thought I was more cat than human for a similar demeanor.

    I have to go now but I'll look more at your requests as soon as I can. It might be awhile, I have a busy weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I'd be curious what you have to say, since I'm also a 478 ENFP and probably Sx/So, so I'm curious in what ways I would relate.
    I actually think you might be sx/sp.

    Mainly because, while you have a very similar "sticks out" quality to you, and people like you much like they did her, she really popped out at you from the screen (she was a member here) in a way that you, I dunno, there's a similar way in which you are both fascinating creatures, that stand out, but yours is a little more subdued, a little more calm, a little more withdrawn.

    With yours, it's like, you see the fire burning, and you can feel the warmth, but you don't necessarily feel it blasting against your face.

    With her, you felt the fucking heat coming straight at you and all around you.

    It could be, tho, that she was 4w5 7w? 8w7 (I believe).

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    @Animal, do you think this is a tritype thing? I'm wondering if maybe sexual fours with the counterphobic six head are more like I said, while those with the nine gut are looking more for someone to save them in the Disney princess sort of way.

    And I think sexual fours all try and want to be better, like all fours, but sometimes it seems like it's beyond their control. I know I try and want to be better with my problems, but it isn't often the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Well, regardless, @Animal... sexual fours are extremely idealistic when it comes to relationships. Also, I doubt anyone would ever call them 'easy' or 'low-maintenance', as I have been called. That would be because 1. I'm not quite as idealistic when it comes to relationships (I still am, but not as much). 2. I keep my frustrations for the most part internalized.
    Sooo, yeah...

    She was definitely not "easy" or "low maintenance".

    She was an awesome girlfriend in many regards, and in many ways was actually easy and low maintenance.

    But emotionally, absolutely not. Emotionally, she was, as you say, a tornado.

    I was her rock, and was able to withstand most of it, but, eventually, just practically, it no longer made sense.

    It's kinda like what you say with the "I'm not a wife"?

    I mean, no offense, but how would I possibly explain the hissing to my SJ family?

    On her end, it was always a problem of whether she could get herself up to emotionally making it to the family events, and then, if she could, whether she could not act like an absolute emotional idiot (i.e., super selfish, not able to control herself emotionally, etc) when she was there. Y'all's emotionality is just so central to your being, and sometimes that shit needs to be suppressed, if you want to live anything resembling a practical life. Self-control and emotional suppression are kind of hallmarks of my family, and I don't know if there's anything more opposite of that than an sx enneagram 4.

    And, don't get me wrong, I'm actually a total fucking weirdo.

    I am not like other people.

    I am totally the NJ black sheep of my family.

    But I do have a career that is much more mainstream than "artist".

    And my family are a bunch of SJ guardian pillars of society who judge the shit out of people who don't carry their fair share of the load (and by that, I mean "suck it up, stop whining, and do your job -- you have a responsibility, now do it - no bitching").

    So, yeah...

    Wrt idealization of relationships: it seemed like nothing would ever be good enough for her. She was addicted to suffering. Literally had stuff about it written on her walls. How are you supposed to be with someone like that? Someone who wants to be depressed about life/their relationship not living up to what they want it to? Let's just say, the experience kinda burned me out on 4s. Don't get me wrong, I fucking love them. There's an intensity, especially from the 4 sx's, that matches up with my own sx 6 intensity, and the sex and the playing around alone at home time and the going out time... all of it was fucking phenomenal. But life really just did not seem practical in the long run. And it still doesn't. I wish it could. But I just don't think it ever will.

    She, like you, had a brilliant (as in genius, not as in good) father. Not of the rock star variety; he was just a doctor. But he was supposedly a genius (and, frankly, from everything I heard, sounds like one [IQ probably in the 160-170 range]). He also sounds like an incredible asshole (and I believe it, as he had 10 different kids with 6 different women), and was a combination of absentee, emotionally distant, and emotionally abusive. This is really the worst of it all, because she really is a brilliant creature, and I think he really did a lot of damage to her. Unfortunately, combined with her 4ness, she uses it as a crutch, and constantly pulls the victim card. As I said before, I come from a hardcore SJ household, where playing the victim is just about the most unacceptable thing one can do, and it was basically ingrained in me to despise any such thing from a very young age. I think I'm pretty fair, actually, when it comes to it, as I never just accepted (and, at one point, completely reevaluated) everything that was taught to me, and I try to be truly understanding to different peoples' circumstances, but there is no question or denying that she simply would not let this go, and that not doing so was doing, and would continue to do, serious damage to her. She had this vision of who she was meant to be, and it was like she constantly was thinking about how she wasn't that person, and was never on the right path to become that person, and it was because she was a victim of an emotionally abusive father. The emotionally abusive father part was correct, but the rest of it she was repeatedly inflicting upon herself.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Fours are very hard on themselves like ones, and with the line to one there is a focus on improvement. I think the one fix will make a four more rigid, like you look at them and there's almost a SJ quality, kind of something fussy or proper. Conversely, an eight fix is just more solid, I think, with an element of 'don't fuck wit me.' - Not in a reactive six way, but in a more nonverbal way.
    Well, I knew the above was answering some part of what brainheart wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I keep my frustrations for the most part internalized.
    She did some combination of this, which was extremely frustrating (I called it "going into her shell" or "clamming/crabbing up" -- she would get like an f'n hermit crab, and just stop talking -- at all -- it was awful. I would be there, showing myself to be there for her emotionally, asking her to open up, and she would not. Or would do so barely. I associated it with her being swallowed up by a sea of inferior Si.

    At other times she'd be the opposite, tho, and throw all kinds of shit at me (emotionally [mostly]). This is where I saw the problem with the 8-wing. Cuz I don't back down. There is literally no making me back down, so it's just absolutely pointless to even try. It's like @Starry said in this post: it's like I've got an army behind me, and I'm fighting for what's right, not for might. 8s, by contrast, fight for might. And, sorry to burst the 8s' egos, but, one who fights for something bigger, not just themselves, but something they genuinely believe to be universally true, and just, and right, has a tenacity and a willingness that goes above and beyond whatever capabilities 8 egotism believes itself to have. Combine that with a strong 8-wing, and I've literally never once backed down from anything. My friends know this about me. My family know this about me. One lifelong friend once even told a girlfriend of mine in college, "Just never try to get into a power struggle with him, and everything will be ok." (<-- it should be noted that I believe this friend [an ENTP 9 who always resented me for being the alpha male, as he was always the guy furthest down on the totem pole] grossly misinterprets just about everything about me, and that I'm really not about dominating, or maintaining power, but that, if I see something that I believe is wrong, not only will I absolutely not let it go, but I can pretty much always make an extremely strong case for why it is wrong, and I will not let it go til we have talked through that case, and you either have presented me with information as to why I am not seeing it correctly, in which case, I will adjust my perspective [and this does actually happen; this particular ex was actually pretty successful in this regard], or you will come to admit that what I am saying has merit, and genuinely apologize, at which time, I will pretty much forgive you and let it go on the spot [and I'm actually surprisingly good about this], or you will not, in which case, if you cannot present me with alternative information or an argument that shows that what I am saying is not true, or is not complete, or is missing some important element, and are thus just fighting for fighting's sake, or don't care about right and wrong, and just want to win for winning's sake [might over right], then the issue will remain and be unresolved, and the relationship will be headed for an inevitable conclusion).

    Problem is, 8-fixers can't really help but get themselves in power struggles, from what I've seen (previous girlfriend was an ESFP 783; most recent an ENFP 872). At one point, around 6-8 months in, I think, she said something like, "It's just not worth getting into fights with you." It was oddly nice the way she said it, like that she really cared about the relationship, and had enough experience with our fighting to do a cost-benefit analysis, and realize it just wasn't worth it. And I appreciated that. But there was also this weird degree to which I thought it was kinda the beginning of the end. Like, she needed to be able to dominate, or something. And without the ability to do so, the relationship would not work. It wasn't entirely like that. There were times where it seemed like she'd come to grips with it in a healthy way, and things calmed down a lot. But yeah, from what I have seen, y'all 8-fixers like to fight. And if you're not allowed to win, it almost seems to take something from your soul. Like, you become a broken mare. Before, you were free, and could do whatever you want, and no one could stop you, and you had no limitations to place upon yourself. And something gets lost when you finally have to give that up. When your feeling some way was not enough to simply justify any behavior. When reason actually came to have just as much precedence as emotion (or superego over id and ego). And 8s and 4s are actually the same in this regard, as they are one another's mirror (being 4EI and 8IE), so having both of them within the same trifix is just that much more a recipe for a fiery kinda character.

    Anyway, that was all kind of all just a long dump.

    Hopefully, you got some use out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Wow. The wildest thing actually is that I like you, and I got the impression from you that you liked me too. Ah, forums....
    Oh, I don't dislike you...

    I'm just wary...

    Like, I think I want to like you, but I'm a little bit scared to.

    Something like that.

    Anyway, as I said, over the last six months, I've been getting more comfortable with you.

    It's just weird, cuz, if you look at my wall, it's like the fucking FP playground.

    You're kinda in this odd bucket, by yourself, for the most part, I believe.

    (I think part of it is avatar choice, honestly.

    I was very confused by your old one, that you had for a long time.

    It looked to me like an abusive man and a frightened woman or something.

    I really was never sure whether you were a man or a woman.)

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    There was something on that Fauvre 478 description that a good friend of mine (a self typed 461, and I agree) said was 'totally me', though, and I can see how that could bug people-
    Oh, do you think you have a 7-fix?

    I thought it was more likely a 6-fix...

    Could be wrong, tho, and it really could be any head fix.

    My interpretation of you is just too far off, too miscalibrated, to be certain.

    Blind Spot: You can be so focused on your opinions, insights and what is new and profound that your freedom seeking nature can come across as arrogant, resistant, and/or uncooperative.
    Yeah, this is one of the things that made me certain my ex was a 478. It's ridiculous how well this fits her. We would go out to a bar, or a lounge, or hang out with my friends, and she would literally almost become a bully (to strangers [always dudes]), like, making fun of them, and abusing them, and coming off as just totally arrogant, imo. With my friends, it was more like they just thought she was an emotional wreck and needed to get a grip of herself (combined with really liking her when she wasn't acting like a fool).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_X View Post
    yep yep all of this...altho i'm quite sure amar has the very romantic idea of partners taking "care" of each other...which i get in a sort of far off dreamy way...like mergy sxness way of completely having each others back and will turn into fierce lioness to protect..sort of idea...out there...or deep in there somewhere but reality...like for real for real...someone "protecting me" sounds completely patronizing.

    must be a type 7 thing..do not dare see me as weak or in any way someone that needs to be managed.
    I'm actually okay with what you described above...it seems different to me though from what Amar described.

    I'm thinking of an old friend of mine right now haha. Total ENFJ/ISTP hybrid cp 6. This is when I was going to school in London... we met there at the university... He was an x-gang member that had sold an unbelievable amount of drugs to pull himself out...set on getting a degree but needed it to be so very far from where he came from and just happened to choose London as well. Being with him was like being in a beautiful movie...he was so out of place and I get chills and tears when I think about how brave he was for doing this. He's the only person I have felt honored to be protected by...in one massive over reaction after another haha. He just couldn't really gauge the threat levels all that well so someone would look at me sideways and all of a sudden it was like "what the fuck you lookin at?" haha (totally successful commercial real estate investor now.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    It's just weird, cuz, if you look at my wall, it's like the fucking FP playground.
    I don't really hang out on the MBTI sites. Enneagram's more my thing.

    You're kinda in this odd bucket, by yourself, for the most part, I believe.
    Yeah, that sounds about right...

    The avatar was from one of my favorite movies, Solaris. I'm female but I think can come off as either/or. Being female has never been a huge part of my identity. I think of myself more as human.

    Oh, do you think you have a 7-fix?

    I thought it was more likely a 6-fix...

    Could be wrong, tho, and it really could be any head fix.

    My interpretation of you is just too far off, too miscalibrated, to be certain.
    If there's one fix I feel strongly it's the seven fix. For a 4w5 I feel a really strong connection to seven. I thought for awhile that maybe I was just crazy disintegrated or something. As far as gut goes, 4w5 has both connections to 8 and 1 so I feel both of them. That said, my one kind of sucks in that I have zero time management and self discipline skills. And I'm not that much of a perfectionist. I can be about certain things but for the most part, no. I can be pretty opportunistic and I'm definitely blunt and direct, so...

    Yeah, this is one of the things that made me certain my ex was a 478. It's ridiculous how well this fits her. We would go out to a bar, or a lounge, or hang out with my friends, and she would literally almost become a bully (to strangers [always dudes]), like, making fun of them, and abusing them, and coming off as just totally arrogant, imo. With my friends, it was more like they just thought she was an emotional wreck and needed to get a grip of herself (combined with really liking her when she wasn't acting like a fool).
    I'm embarrassed to say I can get like this, too. Typically when drunk, though. I think people of the accommodating types get particularly put off by this, which would explain why my romantic relationships with nines never worked out. I can get pretty ashamed post this sort of behavior, honestly. It makes me avoid situations where I'll be like that. I think as a self pres types it's particularly embarrassing because out comes a part of me that I try to keep hidden. It makes me feel really vulnerable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I don't really hang out on the MBTI sites. Enneagram's more my thing.
    Where does that mean you do hang out?

    The Enneagram Institute??

    Doesn't their forum suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I'm embarrassed to say I can get like this, too. Typically when drunk, though. I think people of the accommodating types get particularly put off by this, which would explain why my romantic relationships with nines never worked out. I can get pretty ashamed post this sort of behavior, honestly. It makes me avoid situations where I'll be like that. I think as a self pres types it's particularly embarrassing because out comes a part of me that I try to keep hidden. It makes me feel really vulnerable.
    I really never understood it.

    Why do you get like this?

    And why does it make you feel vulnerable?

    That makes very little sense to me (at the moment, at least)...

    Like, she was never a bully otherwise... she was always super friendly...

    But you get a couple drinks in her (not even sloppy drunk or anything), and she'd get this super entitled persona going, and just start...

    I dunno, it was almost like she'd draw people into her world, just so she could crush them, and make them feel like small idiots...

    It would actually make me feel really uncomfortable -- and I'm the one who's supposed to be the asshole INTJ!

    All of a sudden I'd be part of this whole act, and I'd already seen it enough times before to know what was happening...

    It's not like she was always like this when we'd go out or anything... sometimes she'd just be stirring conversation...

    But she would sometimes very distinctly get into this mode, and I never knew what the fuck was bringing it about...

    Did she sense something about these people that she didn't like? And wanted to crush them because of it??

    My aforementioned ESFP 783 had a similar drunken belligerence, but hers was less of a calculated ploy...

    Hers was more just talking shit to other people and laughing it off as if she were invincible.

    The nastiness in the ENFP 4's was how devious and complicated the whole thing was.

    Like, she'd make people think she was befriending them, only to subtly clown them...

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