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Thread: Ask an ENFP

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I'm discovering that sexual fours live in a fantasy land when it comes to romantic relationships, where they are allowed to be as emotional and volatile as possible and the other person is supposed to put up with it and if they don't they aren't 'good enough'. (I think most sexual fours will deny they do this, by the way.)

    Feeling myself moving further and further away from the sexual four shore...
    I'm not that emotionally volatile, actually. Not on the outside anyway. I save that stuff for my writing and art and don't care to exploit it to my partner. I want them to accept it as part of me, but I don't do drama & "dumping games" and other bullshit… whatsoever. I had a very stable relationship with a 9w8 for two years, and he lived with me, and we talked everything out, felt very comfortable together. I cried a few times because I felt he didnt "love me enough" - in the first six months.. but when he told me that he needs me to believe that he loves me.. and it was all he needed from me, that was the ONLY thing he was unhappy about (me refusing to believe it)… we never had any more 'fights' after that. Even the breakup was amicable. We are still on good terms.

    I guess one reason I see 5 wing over 3 is my objectivity. I am very "in myself" but I can also see the bigger picture "outside" myself. I can see what I'm doing and how its affecting others. I might act out, but I will quickly thereafter understand what I did, and then try to fix it and REALLY TRY not to do it again. I learn from my mistakes - something many people do not bother doing - but I really make myself suffer for them with writing, music, playing them over and over in my head. I want to be better, and I don't want to be a burden.

    My emotional volatility has always mostly gone into my music or expression. I need TONS of time to myself to process this; this is probably my biggest complaint that I get from boyfriends. I'm very "present" when I'm with them, but then I need SO MUCH time to myself that I get accused of being "detached" or "distant" despite my emotional sensitivity and presence when I am there.

    My ex didnt mind if I wrote songs about exes or whatever. He was also a musician, so we just respected that our artistic expression is just that. We had the kind of relationship where we could talk about exes and other hurts in the past, without judging. As long as there was no physical cheating. It's like.. he would rather I talked to him about an ex, than felt the need to complain to the ex directly. He talked about his too. After the first six months or so, we had enough trust where there was no question of cheating, disloyalty or other issues, so yes I am emotionally volatile, but there weren't fights "at" him; it was more like he took my emotions in stride and I took his problems in stride, and everything was honest.

    Outside of him, I haven't had any long relationships. Only six months or less. I refused to commit to most relationships through my 20s because I was traumatized and did not feel I could be a stable partner. Many men wrote songs or albums about me, tattooed my artwork, went to great lengths to "prove their love," but I told every single one not to bother,that I'm not capable of love right now. They would want to "save me from myself" and I would tell them "Only I can save me." One guy showed up at 2am to say "I love you" and I slapped him and said "How dare you defile a world like LOVE by associating it with a creature like me." The thing is - I was always very honest about who and what I am, and I knew what I was capable of. So I am still friends with these people. That guy I just mentioned, I know his wife now, went to their wedding, and we are cool. Nobody "hates me" for it because I'm honest as fuck.

    Once I decide I'm going to commit, and really DO it, I make the effort to handle my own emotions and really be there. I can even be the stable force in a relationship. The issues only come in when I decide to have lovers and not boyfriends. Then I end up being seen as a 'heartbreaker' - but until someone else did that to me (another 4) , I felt that this wasnt my fault because I was honest and told them exactly what to expect, and that is exactly what they got. Once it happened to me, I changed a lot as a person and stopped taking lovers. I'm mostly single, not sexually or emotionally involved with anyone nowadays, waiting for the right one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    I really, really like you.


    I really really like you too!

    (This made me blush so hard!)
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  2. #272
    brainheart
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    @Animal, do you think this is a tritype thing? I'm wondering if maybe sexual fours with the counterphobic six head are more like I said, while those with the nine gut are looking more for someone to save them in the Disney princess sort of way.

    And I think sexual fours all try and want to be better, like all fours, but sometimes it seems like it's beyond their control. I know I try and want to be better with my problems, but it isn't often the case.

  3. #273
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    @Animal, do you think this is a tritype thing? I'm wondering if maybe sexual fours with the counterphobic six head are more like I said, while those with the nine gut are looking more for someone to save them in the Disney princess sort of way.
    I could definitely see that.

    My current idea for my tritype (though this is subject to inquiry) is 4wX(5?)-8w9-7w6. I am also considering 1w9, because I do bother to fix myself and so forth, but I feel like that desire comes from my heart more than my gut… sounds weird I know. Also I have a line to 1 anyway. And I have a lot of 8ish qualities, deeply, some which are negative enough that when I mistyped at 8 core I had a lot of revelations and personal growth but it was difficult and miserable for me to look them in the face that closely.

    My social 4 friend says that sometimes she can't tell where SX4 ends and where my 8-fix begins. *scared face*

    So if I am correct on this assessment - 8w9 as a first fix - that might explain some of it. It's like.. "I want what I want" but I am very firm on my decisions. I'm very conscious of defending my personal space, but I'm straight forward about what I can and cannot offer. Even in romance it can be somewhat like making a business deal. "I can give X, I cannot give Y, please do not expect me to give Y." That is my boundary.

    When I'm madly in love with someone I will give everything. There is no boundary. It's just.. this is not always the case. I've slept with a decent number of people (friends, never strangers)... and I've had a decent number of short-term boyfriends or flings… and friends who were lovers on and off for many many years… but I've only had someone I'm tremendously focused on, obsessed with, passionate about in a deep driving way - very few times. These few people are my "ideal boyfriend" at that time, and they are often a large part of the reason that I don't commit to others. I write songs about them, make fiction characters out of them, mirror them in many ways. This is something I'm deeply shameful about. It's rarely the person I am WITH. Or if I am with him, he won't commit to me or whatever. Since I'm not WITH this person, but I would give anything to be with them, I try to act perfectly, never to show my vulnerability, never to show my NEED for them because it is shameful. The way I treat men I am with (even though I'm honest about my lack of real commitment to them)… this might be more congruent for SX-4 in general, like you had mentioned. But when I think about how I treat someone I'm truly obsessed with, it can look more like a 2 or a 1. LIke I want them to adore me, I need to be a much better person to deserve them. I beat myself up for every little "mistake." I lose some of who I am and I hate it and love it at the same time.


    Having said all of that, it might be congruent with the 8 and 7 fixes. Like I am driven by this ID desire. "I want what I want, I will do anything to have it." ??? I could definitely see that being more the case for me, whereas a CP-6 fixed 4 would be more defiant, testing the limits, etc. And certainly a 9 fixer would have that disney princess quality (to be honest, I envy that).

    I am curious how you operate here as a 1 fixer, though it seems if you are indeed an SP dom it would be different anyway. Are you volatile at all in relationships or do you swallow most of it?
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I'm discovering that sexual fours live in a fantasy land when it comes to romantic relationships, where they are allowed to be as emotional and volatile as possible and the other person is supposed to put up with it and if they don't they aren't 'good enough'.
    That sounds a lot like what I experienced.

    I put up with it, and put up with it, til I had nothing left to give.

    Then, and only then, after having put up with more than you can believe, did I leave.

    / enneagram 6

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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    @Animal, do you think this is a tritype thing? I'm wondering if maybe sexual fours with the counterphobic six head are more like I said, while those with the nine gut are looking more for someone to save them in the Disney princess sort of way.

    And I think sexual fours all try and want to be better, like all fours, but sometimes it seems like it's beyond their control. I know I try and want to be better with my problems, but it isn't often the case.
    Mine was a 478 sx/so

  6. #276
    brainheart
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    Well, regardless, @Animal... sexual fours are extremely idealistic when it comes to relationships. Also, I doubt anyone would ever call them 'easy' or 'low-maintenance', as I have been called. That would be because 1. I'm not quite as idealistic when it comes to relationships (I still am, but not as much). 2. I keep my frustrations for the most part internalized.

    Fours are very hard on themselves like ones, and with the line to one there is a focus on improvement. I think the one fix will make a four more rigid, like you look at them and there's almost a SJ quality, kind of something fussy or proper. Conversely, an eight fix is just more solid, I think, with an element of 'don't fuck wit me.' - Not in a reactive six way, but in a more nonverbal way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I am curious how you operate here as a 1 fixer, though it seems if you are indeed an SP dom it would be different anyway. Are you volatile at all in relationships or do you swallow most of it?
    I'm thinking I likely have an 8 fix actually, if I must have one. Yeah, I'm volatile but more like when I feel the need to stand up for myself or for others, less about my feelings. I think I just get this sullen or grumpy look on my face. And then I'm asked if I'm ok and my immediate reaction is 'yeah, I'm fine, leave me alone.' If I admit to being moody I'll just immediately say that I'll deal with it or I'll downplay it to deflect attention away from myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Mine was a 478 sx/so (ENFP)
    Well okay then.


    EDIT: I'm actually changing what I said about 1 fixes vs 8 fixes, @Animal and whomever could potentially mistype themselves due to my musings... I think more than anything a 1 fix will bring a superego element to the type while an 8 fix will similarly up the id quotient. Also, with the one will come the temptation/tendency to be hypocritical/hypercritical, while for the 8... I don't know. I've been detaching more lately, observing myself, and the one is definitely present.
    Last edited by brainheart; 05-01-2014 at 01:30 PM.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I'm thinking I likely have an 8 fix actually, if I must have one. Yeah, I'm volatile but more like when I feel the need to stand up for myself or for others, less about my feelings.
    I was just going to rep you this, but I think you're a 468 or 461.

    I definitely feel like I feel fixes in you other than just 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Well okay then.
    Does this mean I should say more, or should have said nothing at all?

    I considered adding more content relative to what you were conjecturing about, but I'm a tad bit reticent to do so.

  8. #278
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I was just going to rep you this, but I think you're a 468 or 461.
    Elaborate, please. You can pm me if you don't want to veer off course too much from the thread, like we've already done.


    Does this mean I should say more, or should have said nothing at all?

    I considered adding more content relative to what you you were conjecturing about, but I'm a tad bit reticent to do so.
    No, more like that strengthens my original statement.

  9. #279
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    That sounds a lot like what I experienced.

    I put up with it, and put up with it, til I had nothing left to give.

    Then, and only then, after having put up with more than you can believe, did I leave.

    / enneagram 6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Mine was a 478 sx/so
    I've never been dumped because I was high maintenance or difficult.
    In fact I have only been rejected once. Im usually the one to leave relationships.
    My biggest problem is that I'm excruciatingly independent.

    My break-up with my long-term boyfriend was mutual. We both cried, and we had nothing but respect for each other and talked about how much we had helped each other right before he left. The reason we broke up, in short, is that he wants kids and I don't, and that is only the beginning of our long list of pragmatic differences and things that just won't work.

    He has dated a few other people since then (we broke up March 2011) and he still cites me as the most stable, up-front, honest and "low maintenance" girlfriend he has had. (I heard this from a friend. She told me how he has nothing but respect for me and found me easy to get along with, etc. He's a social 9w8 so he really values stability.)

    That being said, it took work for me to get there. We both put work into the relationship, and I put tons of work into myself before the relationship. I was 29 when we started dating, and had done a TON of thinking and self improving prior to meeting him. I knew he was special and I did everything I could to be good to him, while still being true to myself, and balance things. In my early 20s as I mentioned before, I was more volatile like your typical sx4 description, but I did not drag anyone else into my problems; I simply told men I would not commit, and I could not, because it would be unfair to them.

    The worst complaint I would possibly receive from a long-term boyfriend who I'm truly committed to, is that I'm distant/ doing my own thing (writing, music etc, not with other people). If they can't tolerate my sexy promo shots, my unconventional political views and will to speak out about them on occasion, my chronic illness, my desire to express ALL of my feelings in art and music and writing, my male alter-ego, and my dark taste in music, they wouldn't be dating me in the first place. That is the first part of me that anyone meets. If they make it past that stage, the hardest thing for them to accept would be that I get lost in my fantasy world and I'm not quite "there" sometimes, and that I don't like social gatherings and keep to myself alot, and need to take long walks in solitude etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Well, regardless, @Animal... sexual fours are extremely idealistic when it comes to relationships. Also, I doubt anyone would ever call them 'easy' or 'low-maintenance', as I have been called. That would be because 1. I'm not quite as idealistic when it comes to relationships (I still am, but not as much). 2. I keep my frustrations for the most part internalized.
    I am extremely idealistic. I've been working very hard on accepting a more realistic view. ^ see above Re: low maintenance - although I am high maintenance *internally* which is why I need tons of time to myself. In its own rite, this can be high maintenance because I'm very protective of my time and my chance to process things. If I cannot process, if I am needed in the real world too much or there are too many demands on me, I can be feisty and curt. I hiss.

    Oh, my family, friends and boyfriends call me "it" lol.. (ie, "Is it hungry? How is it feeling?") because I literally respond to things I don't want to do by hissing. Among other animal-like habits.

    But if someone doesnt' get the hint from that, there will be words.

    However I DO NOT want someone thinking they should take care of my emotions. Not happening - those are mine. If somenoe wants to KNOW them, to NAVIGATE them, I secretly yearn for this but I would welcome it on my own time.. I don't want intrusions.

    I guess that's kind of difficult and annoying yes.. but not "high-maintenance" in the usual way that it is used. In that sense, I'm very low maintenance. I don't want tons of attention, lots of money spent on me, a shit ton of 'quality time' etc. I am very physical with boyfriends and love touching and being touched, but my sensual and sexual appetite has always been a plus rather than a minus, meaning it's "sexy" but not "clingy." I don't have problems in the physical department, for whatever thats worth.


    Fours are very hard on themselves like ones, and with the line to one there is a focus on improvement. I think the one fix will make a four more rigid, like you look at them and there's almost a SJ quality, kind of something fussy or proper. Conversely, an eight fix is just more solid, I think, with an element of 'don't fuck wit me.' - Not in a reactive six way, but in a more nonverbal way.
    yeah I kind of agree. I would have to go with 8 fix for myself, I think. I think the lines are more important than the fixes, in a way, and that's why people sometimes see "1 fix" in me, because of the line. People also see 2 in me. But I'm not rigid in that sense. I have met 4s like that so I know what you mean.


    I'm thinking I likely have an 8 fix actually, if I must have one. Yeah, I'm volatile but more like when I feel the need to stand up for myself or for others, less about my feelings. I think I just get this sullen or grumpy look on my face. And then I'm asked if I'm ok and my immediate reaction is 'yeah, I'm fine, leave me alone.' If I admit to being moody I'll just immediately say that I'll deal with it or I'll downplay it to deflect attention away from myself.
    Yeah.. makes sense. I relate to this somewhat, although I really want to be alone when I'm moody, rather than sit there being grumpy. When I lived with my ex in a one-room studio, I would just go for walks or to the gym to 'let out my anger' so he wouldn't have to deal with it. When I was sad or grumpy and couldn't leave, I went into my own world. But to be fair I was so happy with him and he was so gorgeous and sweet that one look at him, and i couldn't be that sad anymore. This is why I hold out for the "right" guy rather than compromise. I know my ideals exist to some degree, but what I'm working on, is when I have to let go of some of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I considered adding more content relative to what you you were conjecturing about, but I'm a tad bit reticent to do so.
    I'd be curious what you have to say, since I'm also a 478 ENFP and probably Sx/So, so I'm curious in what ways I would relate.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Elaborate, please. You can pm me if you don't want to veer off course too much from the thread, like we've already done.
    What would an ENFP thread be without a derail?

    You've just... I dunno, I know you've been thinking about this lately, and I didn't really have much of an opinion about it.

    But then I saw you say the 4w5 4w4 4w4 thing, and I immediately reacted like, "Bogus."

    The hints of it started hitting me last night, but, seeing your posts today, I very easily went to 468 or 461.

    You have a confrontational quality about you.

    For someone who's been here since 2009, is an FP, and has over 2000 posts, I have interacted with you surprisingly little.

    I used to not know whether you were a man or a woman (until maybe 6 months ago).

    But yeah, your posts have this confrontational element to them, that, no offense, kinda rubs me the wrong way.

    I seem to misinterpret a lot of what you say, or not know how to interpret it.

    And I don't get this feeling from too many posters.

    It could be the sp-dom.

    Sp-dom's tend to rub me the wrong way (I like plenty of them, but there's this "selfish/withdrawn" quality I feel from them).

    Anyway, you don't quite hit me in quite the same way, but there's a certain "Marmness" I get when I come across your posts.

    It's not the in-your-face sx/so quality, so it's much tamer, and doesn't literally make my brain hurt, and make me want to destroy you.

    Rather, I get wary (in a similar way, but more subdued way, as I do with marm), and my paranoia alerts start going up.

    It's like, my ears perk up like a wild animal, as I start to suspect danger is near.

    I dunno.

    I've come to get you a lot more over the last 6 months or so, so a lot of this has started to change.

    But there's still very much a certain core element there, and it's just dissolving, slowly, in certain ways.

    Anyway, due to the association with Marm, and that I think you're kind of a "Truth Teller", I could see 468.

    Whether the more subdued quality is just because you're an Sp dom, or because your gut fix is 1, not 8, I'm not sure.

    You seem to have a certain right vs wrong streak, which is definitely less indicative of 8 than 1, but...

    It could be explained by a 6-fix, or your integration towards 1.

    And, that's all I got.


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