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Thread: Ask an ENFP

  1. #261
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    An ENFP who is in line with what her Fi dictates can bend and flex to a point where other people wonder how they could ever manage to put themselves in such a bind and not feel that strain in the least.
    This is good, and yes I think it is key. If you have a sense of balance, especially between Fi and Te, there is an ability to move in any direction at any need without feeling like you're being jerked around. I believe I have the same sense of balance in the other direction, with Te emphasized but not overpowering Fi.
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  2. #262
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    This is good, and yes I think it is key. If you have a sense of balance, especially between Fi and Te, there is an ability to move in any direction at any need without feeling like you're being jerked around. I believe I have the same sense of balance in the other direction, with Te emphasized but not overpowering Fi.
    The thing is that an ENFP will need time to develop Fi to actually figure out *what* and in *what way* they need something to work for them in order to actually get shit done (Te). And the world generally has very little patience with that, causing quite a few rebellious episodes in an otherwise so rational looking enfp. So if you've got someone who is being triggered but doesn't realise it, and doing the push and pull thing, chances are that they haven't figured out yet what it is they're supposed to want and in what way to make it work for them.

    Additionally -coming back to that irrationality you were referring to earlier wrt to the dichotomy of wanting someone to take over yet not - , I think this happens when an ENFP has been a) taught the value of self reliance and therefore feels really self-conscious about 'failing' in that respect ( I know I had to swallow a great deal of pride to realise that what I'm good at is basically asking others to do it for me ). Many however do improve seriously in this respect due to being told that this is important (and it is.), but its not without its cost and effort.

    And b) when the ENFP is still training their Fi wrt to who to trust with what. One of the things I feel we rule at is figuring out who we can entrust with what - be it a task, a secret or our heart. However, it does take a considerable amount of NeSi before Fi is properly...shall we say 'calibrated'? And at that point, it becomes like 'insufficient data on this person' - control not recommended. At the same time we're struggling with a) and shit hits the fan. As...inefficient as it may seem, that is the process we need to go through in order to come into our own, I feel.

    Once you know the areas you want to improve on yourself, yet also know which people to go to for other stuff (or even this stuff temporarily as you figure it out), and rock the skill of motivating them (and making sure they get their cut of the goodies), you hit the ground running in actually getting shit done on *YOUR* terms.

    / rambling.
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  3. #263
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Part of me yearns for someone like that at times - someone who knows me so well, who sees that managing the outside world is such a burden to me and who enjoys doing it himself. Someone who realises what they are capable of and will put my welfare above all else - including his own ego, yet realises that I in the same turn will do the same for him and let him explore the darker sides of his ego by allowing him to do things that society perhaps would damn him for, to me. I'll flex and bend for his pleasure and desires, if he protects and cares for me.
    ^^I don't relate to this...at all really...and I'm curious now as to how many of the ENFP e7s do or would.

    I very much relate to what @uumlau was saying with regards to ENFPs and control but not the above. I mean, the above sorta defies my understanding of the ENFP which is due to either an e7 bias...or I'm completely misunderstanding what you are saying...

    It basically seems to me that you're saying..."I struggle with these kinds of everyday tasks/functions...and so because you're a.) good at dealing with these kinds of things and b.) I've completely screened the psychological shit out of you and subsequently allowed you the highest level of clearance... you can take care of me...and in exchange you can have your way with my body."

    ^^maybe I got that wrong but if I'm even somewhere in the ballpark I can tell you that isn't the ENFP e7 way at all. Like just the word "protects" from that last sentence I quoted causes me to cringe a tiny bit. I want a man that has my back... but he's not going to step-in and fight my battles for me. I've never had that desire for protection and while I've known a good many ENFP e7s in my lifetime...they've all been the same as me in this regard. A guy steps in to protect me or clean-up one of my messes? Gross. I've always been for the dude that has just as much completely unreasonable faith in my abilities as I do haha.

    I've often said though that ENFP 7s can out-resist-control e8s of any MBTI...any day of the week. 8s generally want to hit you with the absolute worst they've got and once they know you are strong enough to handle it...will become sweet, loving 2s. 7s can be frustrating for so many people because they want complete equality even in instances where it might not be warranted. "Can I remember to pay my bills on time? Nope. But you can't call attention to that because I'm remaining very optimistic about this. Someday, because of the magic of the universe, I just might."

    Even if you think you are controlling a 7 you really aren't. The two types of responses I've seen over and over again are what is referred to as *flashes of anger* ...or just as likely the 7 that appears completely unaware of attempts to control them but are totally aware and have become waves that you can't pin down to the beach.


    I don't relate to the lyrics of this song at all...but there's something in this 'can't be pinned down' quality (no ownership) that I hear in this song that makes me think of what it would be like to be in a relationship with an unhealthy male or female 7.


  4. #264
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    @Starry I love that song. And I'm ENFP 4 with 7 fix, but still wouldn't want someone to "take care of me." I'm a tornado, not a wife. I'm a muse, not a showpiece.
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  5. #265
    brainheart
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    I'm discovering that sexual fours live in a fantasy land when it comes to romantic relationships, where they are allowed to be as emotional and volatile as possible and the other person is supposed to put up with it and if they don't they aren't 'good enough'. (I think most sexual fours will deny they do this, by the way.)

    Feeling myself moving further and further away from the sexual four shore...

  6. #266
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    @Starry I love that song. And I'm ENFP 4 with 7 fix, but still wouldn't want someone to "take care of me." I'm a tornado, not a wife. I'm a muse, not a showpiece.
    I really, really like you.

  7. #267
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I'm discovering that sexual fours live in a fantasy land when it comes to romantic relationships, where they are allowed to be as emotional and volatile as possible and the other person is supposed to put up with it and if they don't they aren't 'good enough'. (I think most sexual fours will deny they do this, by the way.)

    Feeling myself moving further and further away from the sexual four shore...
    If that's what it is...that's so not you to me.

  8. #268
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    If that's what it is...that's so not you to me.
    Exactement, ma cherie.

  9. #269
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    I'm discovering that sexual fours live in a fantasy land when it comes to romantic relationships, where they are allowed to be as emotional and volatile as possible and the other person is supposed to put up with it and if they don't they aren't 'good enough'. (I think most sexual fours will deny they do this, by the way.)

    Feeling myself moving further and further away from the sexual four shore...
    I thought that had more to do with health level than anything else. At very unhealthy levels, 4s (and 6s) can show borderline traits. Still, I could see how Sx would map to a borderline-ish glomming onto the other in order to be saved. I always thought the push/pull aspect of 4s had a borderline-ish aspect conceptually, with a kind of splitting between the idealized absent,and the more-mundane-when-actually-present sides of a person.

    (And to be clear, I'm sure not saying that all — or even most — 4s are borderlines or all/most borderlines are 4.)

  10. #270
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I thought that had more to do with health level than anything else. At very unhealthy levels, 4s (and 6s) can show borderline traits. Still, I could see how Sx would map to a borderline-ish glomming onto the other in order to be saved. I always thought the push/pull aspect of 4s had a borderline-ish aspect conceptually, with a kind of splitting between the idealized absent,and the more-mundane-when-actually-present sides of a person.

    (And to be clear, I'm sure not saying that all — or even most — 4s are borderlines or all/most borderlines are 4.)
    Well I probably exaggerated it a bit, but I think for the sexual four their outward expression of self is really important, and I think they have the highest ideals romantically when it comes to relationships- that person needs to be able to deal with all of it. I've had relationship problems, but for me it's been more about expecting my sig other to 'get' my feelings even if I don't express them, or my needing more freedom- I like to lick my wounds in private. I don't want to merge. That said, I'm definitely less idealistic when it comes to relationships- but I'm crazy idealistic when it comes to what I should be doing with my life. (I have had a borderline moment, though, with one person I dated. He's the only person I've been like that with and it was horrible.)

    I don't know how it works for social fours.

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