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Thread: Ask an ENFP

  1. #191
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    Hahhaah!

    You're trying to turn him into a hideous chimera, aren't you my ingenious darling? <3
    oh my

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post


    I just...answer questions. What people do with the answers is totally up to them



    Also, @chubber...Never ever ask the ENFP what the plan is. Know the plan and follow up on it. It just aint...our strength.

    Honest to god, I have no clue what the *** you re talking about with phase 2.
    ...did I talk about a phase 2 somewhere?
    Yes you did, however it was called step 2... my bad


    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    But that's the point: I cannot assume everyone wants to be treated as I would prefer, or values the same things I value. I need to ask instead how the other person wants to be treated, and that is often very difficult to discern.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I know, but that is step 2 in the process and i did not want to overwelm him! First we get the intj to see the reason to put effort in caring; then we teach em how to tailor it to others. Patience, woman!

  2. #192
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    oh my

    Yes you did, however it was called step 2... my bad

    Dude, that was a different thread and addressed to someone else, and you expect me to just *know*? Do you have any idea how much crap I babble on about?

    If you're sure you're ready for step 2 - aka intermediate Fi - here it is:

    After you've determined how you'd want to be treated, you take that as a baseline and then adjust the following variables:

    - Substitute their background - aka what you know about them - for your own.

    - Substitute their personality - see above - for your own and calculatehow this is logically going to impact the results.

    - Check your own emotional state as it will pollute the outcome of this exercise with bias if you do not factor it in or put yourself in neutral first

    - Take into account what kind of bond you share with said individual and how that would impact what they'd be comfortable hearing from you, sharing with you and are likely to hide from you due to privacy concerns - and respect those boundaries!

    /intermediate Fi approach with people.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #193
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    rite

  4. #194
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Too much?
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Dude, that was a different thread and addressed to someone else, and you expect me to just *know*? Do you have any idea how much crap I babble on about?

    If you're sure you're ready for step 2 - aka intermediate Fi - here it is:

    After you've determined how you'd want to be treated, you take that as a baseline and then adjust the following variables:

    - Substitute their background - aka what you know about them - for your own.

    - Substitute their personality - see above - for your own and calculatehow this is logically going to impact the results.

    - Check your own emotional state as it will pollute the outcome of this exercise with bias if you do not factor it in or put yourself in neutral first

    - Take into account what kind of bond you share with said individual and how that would impact what they'd be comfortable hearing from you, sharing with you and are likely to hide from you due to privacy concerns - and respect those boundaries!

    /intermediate Fi approach with people.
    See the thing is, how do you expect me to know what you don't know, when you were the one that talked about it in the first place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I know, but that is step 2 in the process and i did not want to overwelm him! First we get the intj to see the reason to put effort in caring; then we teach em how to tailor it to others. Patience, woman!
    uhm, that him, was referencing me, unless my over active Ni is imagining too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Too much?
    Don't know what that last step is all about. But I guess it would be best to take this to another thread. I'm not even sure that is possible for me, or if I even want to do it.

  6. #196
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    See the thing is, how do you expect me to know what you don't know, when you were the one that talked about it in the first place.




    uhm, that him, was referencing me, unless my over active Ni is imagining too much.



    Don't know what that last step is all about. But I guess it would be best to take this to another thread. I'm not even sure that is possible for me, or if I even want to do it.
    Grin, well that's the step that leads from intermediate Fi to advanced Fi
    It basically requires you to be able to read where you stand with the other person - acquaintance, friend, best friend, colleague - and how good your bond is. At that point you incorporate their own personal traits - private, serious, warm, doesn't mind being vulnerable, etc - to gauge how much you can say and how you can approach them best in expressing your empathy/sympathy towards them.

    In essence, the entire process goes from empathy ( aka, how do I feel or step 1 - at least for Fi users), to learning sympathy (aka, realising how this must affect the other person considering who they are and the situation they are in) to merging the two and perfecting the feedback style tailored to that person for optimum connection/communication.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #197
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Grin, well that's the step that leads from intermediate Fi to advanced Fi
    It basically requires you to be able to read where you stand with the other person - acquaintance, friend, best friend, colleague - and how good your bond is. At that point you incorporate their own personal traits - private, serious, warm, doesn't mind being vulnerable, etc - to gauge how much you can say and how you can approach them best in expressing your empathy/sympathy towards them.

    In essence, the entire process goes from empathy ( aka, how do I feel or step 1 - at least for Fi users), to learning sympathy (aka, realising how this must affect the other person considering who they are and the situation they are in) to merging the two and perfecting the feedback style tailored to that person for optimum connection/communication.
    That sounds awful lot like Fe.

  8. #198
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    That sounds awful lot like Fe.
    Fi and Fe meet in the middle when they grow. Fe-users tend to start with sympathy and grow towards empathy, ime. Which is why young Fe-users can feel cold and insincere to us Fi-users and young Fi-users can look very self-involved to Fe-users.


    Edit: Remember, *you* asked for step 2. I told you it would be overwhelming
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  9. #199
    Anew Leaf
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    *eats cinnamon popcorn watching the exchange*

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyJaye View Post
    I wish I could appear in a sparkly cloud of awesome, but it's more likely that I announce my presence by accidentally catching my hipbone on the doorway upon entering.

    What's the quandary?
    My dear, who needs sparkly clouds, when one is awesome in the first place?




    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Never ever ask the ENFP what the plan is. Know the plan and follow up on it. It just aint...our strength.
    In a role playing game many years ago, an enemy telepath tried to read my mind to figure out what my plan was. He learned that I didn't have any idea what my plan was, I was so totally winging it at the time! It didn't help that I was a "wild mage" in that game, and my spells often tended to go a bit wrong, and I simply used my Ni to take advantage of whatever "wrong" happened to appear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Grin, well that's the step that leads from intermediate Fi to advanced Fi
    It basically requires you to be able to read where you stand with the other person - acquaintance, friend, best friend, colleague - and how good your bond is. At that point you incorporate their own personal traits - private, serious, warm, doesn't mind being vulnerable, etc - to gauge how much you can say and how you can approach them best in expressing your empathy/sympathy towards them.

    In essence, the entire process goes from empathy ( aka, how do I feel or step 1 - at least for Fi users), to learning sympathy (aka, realising how this must affect the other person considering who they are and the situation they are in) to merging the two and perfecting the feedback style tailored to that person for optimum connection/communication.
    Fi for INTJs doesn't quite work like that, my dear Amar. At least in my own experience. It is more about self-knowledge, than other-knowledge. About being as honest with oneself as one can be, and letting that show to others. The connections with others arise from that self-honesty, which lets others connect with oneself (due to being open and honest), and serves as a quite apt substitution for being truly empathetic/sympathetic with others.

    When INTJs are truly empathetic/sympathetic with others, the chemistry tends to break, because our main strength is knowing "what works", but when we're too empathetic, we let the other person go too far, we resist our inclination to say "No, that's stupid" out of love, but the most loving, empathetic thing we could say at the moment truly is, "No, that's stupid." (Granted, there's probably a kinder way of saying it than "that's stupid.")
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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