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[ENFP] A female ENFP, an atheist, and a part-time misanthrope...

SillySapienne

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I am new to this forum, and am curious if there are any other ENFPs, or NFs who also happen to be atheists and slightly misanthropic.

Growing up, I recall never really believing in "God", and by age 11, or 12, I became evermore certain that the existence of a "higher power" was highly improbable, to the point of bordering the impossible, (hence me feeling comfortable classifying myself as an atheist and not an agnostic). Interestingly enough, my lack of belief in a higher power has had no affect on what has always been my strong sense of right and wrong. I suppose that throughout life, my somewhat strong feelings of both empathy and compassion have acted as my guiding lights in influencing my moral beliefs, and steering my ethical actions.

I believe that the nature of nature itself is inherently neutral, where things just exist, period. However, I believe that from a human perspective, the realities of life set in this natural, neutral world, depending on mood and circumstance, can at times be perceived as being an awe-inspiring and beautiful thing, and at other times be perceived as being downright perverse in its unjust, absolutely horrific ugliness.

I'm starting to believe that it is human nature to be selfish and competitive, after all, we are animals, and at the most basic level, are genetically driven to strive for not only our survival, but if, and when the opportunity arises, to capitalize on available resources, while competing for limited ones in order to flourish and successfully procreate.

I know that there are "good" people out there, and by good I mean those people that sincerely care about other people other than themselves, but I'll tell ya, as I get older, I find that those people become fewer and farther between, dispersed amongst the masses.

Sorry, this is somewhat of a rant....

Anyhow, I would love to hear any thoughts you guys might have on this topic
 
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Lateralus

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Welcome to the forum. :hi:

I'm an ENFP and a misanthrope, but I consider myself to be agnostic rather than atheist. I'm perfectly fine with saying "I don't know" and leaving it at that. I don't mind the open-endedness.
 

Ender

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:hi:

misanthropic.. I actually had to look that word up. It does seem to suit me tho. I'm generally jaded with the world at large as I don't like where the world seems to be heading. Nanny Statism and the people who preach it can kiss my ass to be honest.

When it comes to religion, I don't have much use for it, beyond things like the bible possibly being more of a general moral guideline. I haven't actually read it though so. Sometimes I get the feeling it was something created long ago as a means of population control by some ruler. A way to get people to do as he wanted with the promise of rewards or consequences when they died if they did or didn't.

When to comes to a "higher power". I don't really think about it much. So what if there is or isn't? It's not something that can be proved or disproved beyond any reasonable doubt, and I'm not gonna let it effect my life.

For all we know our kids or grandkids will become what are referred to as "gods". In that all we are is some kids school project on bioengineering and artificial intelligence. Where what we consider to be one year/decade, could be like a nanosecond to them. Same with the scale of size. I dunno I guess kinda like the ending scene in the movie Men in Black with the aliens playing marbles?

Atheist? Agnostic? *shrugs*
 

arcticangel02

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Yea, welcome, CaptainChick! Always nice to see another ENFP wandering around. :)

I've never felt particularly religious, but I agree with Lateralus - I think saying with absolute certainty that there isn't a God is much the same as saying with absolute certainty that there is. There's no way we can ever really know, when it comes down to it.

But as far as the world being what it is, that sounds about right... although I do hold out faith that there are plenty of good people out there. ;)
 

Splittet

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Fi can lead to such things, while you will rarely see it in FJs, at least when it comes to the misanthropic part.
 

wedekit

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Fi can lead to such things, while you will rarely see it in FJs, at least when it comes to the misanthropic part.

Yeah, I definitely prefer the humanistic psychology approach, but I can understand how others would see it as too idealistic.

I was actually reading this to add that my best friend is an ENFP and it seems like she shares the same view. I'm definitely not saying it pertains to all ENFP's, but in her specific case she is simply too unmotivated to pursue anything that takes her out of her comfort zone. For her it's just easier to think there isn't any kind of higher being rather than spending time contemplating it. Interestingly, when our friend committed suicide she cried hysterically the day of his funeral and said she hoped there was an afterlife for his sake.
 

Economica

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I am new to this forum, and am curious if there are any other ENFPs, or NFs who also happen to be atheists and slightly misanthropic.

Vortex, I believe this is your cue. :whistling: (I'm not sure about the atheism part.) In the meantime, here's her blog:

I'm probably designed to have a job with zero customer contact. Except perhaps via mail. That would make me quite happy. There could be coworkers there, but not too often - people to meet at the water thingie and bring cups of coffee back to. Maybe a couple of quick remarks at lunch.

I'm so sick of smiling all the time. One part of me fights to be people-pleasing, nice and pleasant in general, while the other part shouts at me, reminding me that I dislike people in general and strangers in my vicinity in particular. And I'm stuck smiling because there aren't really any other options. One day I'm sure my face will be stuck in some hideous death mask-like rictus, grinning like a corpse wrenched from the grave. Jolly days await.
 

SillySapienne

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For all we know our kids or grandkids will become what are referred to as "gods". In that all we are is some kids school project on bioengineering and artificial intelligence. Where what we consider to be one year/decade, could be like a nanosecond to them. Same with the scale of size. I dunno I guess kinda like the ending scene in the movie Men in Black with the aliens playing marbles?
Sure, sure, it is very true that outside our scale of perception or understanding, anything is possible, but the trend has been that all things discovered about, and within this universe, both past and present, have been governed by natural laws. So logically, one could confidently assume that the same will hold for things/events that will occur in the future.

But I also have always been fascinated with the concept of infinity itself, and even more so, the concept of infinite sets. The microcosmic universe within, and the macrocosmic universe without. Everything is relative to everything else, and that's why we need to set limits, or scales, in order to find a frame of reference to make sense and order out of the chaos....IMO ;)
 

SillySapienne

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But as far as the world being what it is, that sounds about right... although I do hold out faith that there are plenty of good people out there. ;)
Yeah, depending on my mood, and current experience, I either find myself being misanthropic, or fervently humanistic.

Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.....
 

SillySapienne

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I was actually reading this to add that my best friend is an ENFP and it seems like she shares the same view. I'm definitely not saying it pertains to all ENFP's, but in her specific case she is simply too unmotivated to pursue anything that takes her out of her comfort zone. For her it's just easier to think there isn't any kind of higher being rather than spending time contemplating it. Interestingly, when our friend committed suicide she cried hysterically the day of his funeral and said she hoped there was an afterlife for his sake.
Frankly my dear, she does not...

I love being challenged and have always purposefully pushed myself outside of my comfort zones.

I would not be able to quantify the countless hours, days, weeks, months, years even, that I've spent contemplating the existence, or lack of existence of a god, or a higher power, and the implications of what either "truth" would be.

I've been to plenty of funerals, including my father's, who I also happened to witness die. And I've come to realize it is the certainty of death that defines our lives as being limited, and therefore precious. To be honest, I feel bad for people who believe in an afterlife. Foolishly, and quite ironically they end up not living their *actual* lives to the fullest, with hopes for making it up in their "fantasy-based" afterlives.
 

Ender

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Sure, sure, it is very true that outside our scale of perception or understanding, anything is possible, but the trend has been that all things discovered about, and within this universe, both past and present, have been governed by natural laws. So logically, one could confidently assume that the same will hold for things/events that will occur in the future.

Bah natural laws, I'll take your natural laws past and present, add a dash of man's desire to better himself, a pinch of the uncertainty of the future, and a smidgen of the inevitable change in what future generations deem as moral or immoral. Toss it all into a bowl, mix it up and present to you a trio of glow in the dark kittens as a preview as to just what future generations have in store for these so called natural laws :D

glowkittens.jpg


Tho the above is more or less gene manipulation. Scientists have already broken the genetic code, and created stuff that doesn't otherwise exist in nature. I just like the glow in the dark kittens :D

But I also have always been fascinated with the concept of infinity itself, and even more so, the concept of infinite sets. The microcosmic universe within, and the macrocosmic universe without. Everything is relative to everything else, and that's why we need to set limits, or scales, in order to find a frame of reference to make sense and order out of the chaos....IMO ;)

To be honest, I haven't really look at anything relating to the concept of infinity other then just random musings in my own head, and I rarely think about that side of it. I'll have to do some research on the issue and get back to you on this..
 

SillySapienne

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Bah natural laws, I'll take your natural laws past and present, add a dash of man's desire to better himself, a pinch of the uncertainty of the future, and a smidgen of the inevitable change in what future generations deem as moral or immoral. Toss it all into a bowl, mix it up and present to you a trio of glow in the dark kittens as a preview as to just what future generations have in store for these so called natural laws :D
I am no physicist, but I am pretty sure that the laws of physics apply universally to all existing things, although apparently there might be some randomness at the quantum level, (I dunno something about randomly resonating, appearing and disappearing strings?!?!?!?)

In terms of biology, there exists more flexibility in the rules and regulations of life. Plenty of once perceived impossible biological functions and forms have now proven to exist. But the point is, there are natural explanations for these things, it just takes a matter of time, research and intelligence to figure them out.

The point is, every so-called "Freak of Nature" is still very much so a natural thing, it's just new, that's all.

glowkittens.jpg


Tho the above is more or less gene manipulation. Scientists have already broken the genetic code, and created stuff that doesn't otherwise exist in nature. I just like the glow in the dark kittens :D
Cute kitties!!!!!!! We've been manipulating the contents of the natural world, both animate and inanimate for centuries, how? By mimicking nature. If there is no rain for crops, we irrigate fields because we understand that plants need water.


To be honest, I haven't really look at anything relating to the concept of infinity other then just random musings in my own head, and I rarely think about that side of it. I'll have to do some research on the issue and get back to you on this..
Promise? ;)
 

Ender

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I am no physicist, but I am pretty sure that the laws of physics apply universally to all existing things, although apparently there might be some randomness at the quantum level, (I dunno something about randomly resonating, appearing and disappearing strings?!?!?!?)

So how can you define an absolute law when seemingly random things exist? There can't be "random" occurrences of anything, there is something that is causing them to happen. The day when man no longer needs to experiment trying to prove or disprove that these so called laws are absolute is when I'll except that what we can and can't do is thoroughly defined by said laws.

Until then what is and isn't possible is anyone's guess and personally I prefer it that way. It allows me to come up with half crazy fantasies about what is and isn't without that boring thing called reality sticking it's nose into it.

:)

In terms of biology, there exists more flexibility in the rules and regulations of life. Plenty of once perceived impossible biological functions and forms have now proven to exist. But the point is, there are natural explanations for these things, it just takes a matter of time, research and intelligence to figure them out.

The point is, every so-called "Freak of Nature" is still very much so a natural thing, it's just new, that's all.


Cute kitties!!!!!!! We've been manipulating the contents of the natural world, both animate and inanimate for centuries, how? By mimicking nature. If there is no rain for crops, we irrigate fields because we understand that plants need water.

You say the rules and regulations can be bent. If we can bend what we perceive to be the "rule" is it a rule? or a general guideline? After all isn't the saying "a general rule of thumb" used to express generalization or an approximation of the outcome?

To me the saying "bending the rules" is basically an oxymoron. You can't bend them, you can either follow them or break them.

If it's a true rule in the sense that absolutely everything must happen according to "it" then how can there be any give in it if it defines "absolutely" what must happen?

:D


I'll do my best ;)
 

SillySapienne

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Bah, I see you too are a man of philosophical inquiry and semantic conquest. (It takes one to know one, though I happen to be a woman.)

Honestly, I have to first dust off, and don my thinking cap, (it's been awhile, I've kind of been in a mental stupor), before I can effectively prove you wrong. ;)
 

Ender

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Bah, I see you too are a man of philosophical inquiry and semantic conquest. (It takes one to know one, though I happen to be a woman.)

Honestly, I have to first dust off, and don my thinking cap, (it's been awhile, I've kind of been in a mental stupor), before I can effectively prove you wrong. ;)

This could get interesting, Most people just look at me funny and tell them I make their head hurt and run away screaming. Hopefully I won't fall short and disappoint you after you've gone through the trouble of dusting your cap off though. ;)

Edit: Hey wait a minute. This is some kind of delay tactic on your part because I've stumped you and or you agree with me and you just don't want to admit it is it? :p
 
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