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  1. #21
    Senior Member ItsAGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelsea View Post
    So are you saying essentially that your self esteem is lower because of your lack of deep bonds with others?
    I think that is safe to say.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #22
    Member chelsea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAGuy View Post
    I think that is safe to say.
    I gotcha. It is hard, I know I yearn (I despise saying yearn, but I can't think of another way to put it...)for deep relationships but they're very hard to come by. I know I've felt depression and loneliness from not having strong ties, but I don't think my self esteem has been affected by it. Even at times as a teen when I felt like I was from a different planet (still not entirely sure that's not true...muahhaha) I still felt like deep down I was good people Certainly now, I recognize that these deep relationships are hard to come by and that my need for deep relationships coupled with the low frequency by which these occur in life is well, what it is.

    I hear Stuart Smalley running through my head and I don't like it... Or do I?

  3. #23
    Senior Member ItsAGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelsea View Post
    I know I've felt depression and loneliness from not having strong ties, but I don't think my self esteem has been affected by it. Even at times as a teen when I felt like I was from a different planet (still not entirely sure that's not true...muahhaha)
    I could potentially be confusing being run-down and depressed with having low self confidence, I suppose? I don't know, they seem connected to me. As for the rest, yeah... I look out at others; the people who never think to refill the Keurig machine's water supply or wash out the K-cup thing when they're done (so that I always have to do both), or people who drive like they're the only person on the road, regardless of how it hampers everyone else... or mass irresponsibility leading to overpopulation, climate change, resource exhaustion, probable civilization collapse, etc... well, not to exhaust the point, I often feel like I am somehow, even when not coming at it from a better-or-worse perspective, distinctly unrelated to the rest of humanity. This could come off as arrogance or vanity I suppose... but it's not out of a desire to feel 'better than others at all.' Nothing would make me happier than to be surrounded by a world full of responsible people... but it does make me feel angry at times, sad at other times.

    I'm sure that isolates me too.

    Maybe I'm looking too hard for the handful of deep bonds that I can essentially focus on and escape into; forget all the things about the world that upset me.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #24
    Member chelsea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAGuy View Post
    I could potentially be confusing being run-down and depressed with having low self confidence, I suppose? I don't know, they seem connected to me. As for the rest, yeah... I look out at others; the people who never think to refill the Keurig machine's water supply or wash out the K-cup thing when they're done (so that I always have to do both), or people who drive like they're the only person on the road, regardless of how it hampers everyone else... or mass irresponsibility leading to overpopulation, climate change, resource exhaustion, probable civilization collapse, etc... well, not to exhaust the point, I often feel like I am somehow, even when not coming at it from a better-or-worse perspective, distinctly unrelated to the rest of humanity. This could come off as arrogance or vanity I suppose... but it's not out of a desire to feel 'better than others at all.' Nothing would make me happier than to be surrounded by a world full of responsible people... but it does make me feel angry at times, sad at other times.

    I'm sure that isolates me too.

    Maybe I'm looking too hard for the handful of deep bonds that I can essentially focus on and escape into; forget all the things about the world that upset me.
    For me, depression and loneliness are totally separate from my self esteem. I may be depressed or lonely from time to time but it doesn't mean I have low self esteem or my self esteem is lowered. I'd say either you're confusing them or maybe they are connected for you. That's something only you could know though of course. If you're depressed because you're lonely/lacking deep bonds, like I feel from time to time, then I'd say it's not self esteem related. If you're depressed because you feel like there's something wrong with you and that's why you don't have deep bonds then it's a self esteem issue.

    I often feel unrelated to the world as well. For me, being understood is an aspect of deep bonds that is highly appealing to me. Since many people don't understand and don't "fill up the water jug," it's nice when someone understands. I think Infj's, I know I definitely do, have a deep need to be understood.

  5. #25
    Senior Member ItsAGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelsea View Post
    If you're depressed because you feel like there's something wrong with you and that's why you don't have deep bonds then it's a self esteem issue.
    I likely undulate some from the former to the latter. The thought 'what is so wrong with me?' (in the, there-MUST-be-something,-but-I-can't-figure-out what-vein) has occurred from time to time, but not very often.

    I often feel unrelated to the world as well. For me, being understood is an aspect of deep bonds that is highly appealing to me. Since many people don't understand and don't "fill up the water jug," it's nice when someone understands. I think Infj's, I know I definitely do, have a deep need to be understood.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I sorta connected filling up the water jug to the collapse of civilization since I see the same source of nearly-exclusive-self-interest causing both... one at the individual scale and one at the multiplied-by-the-billions-mulitplied-by-centuries scale. I only get twisted up in knots over it because I know we had it in us to do better... not out of some wish to feel superior.

    And yeah, I think INFJs are particularly interested in understanding... of both others and themselves. I mean, just look at the number of threads the NF category has over all the others. =) My facebook is connected to the MyType app (which I find to be a bit above par among tests), and I've noticed that it seems only the I's among my acquaintances are taking the test.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #26
    Senior Member mochajava's Avatar
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    Chelsea:
    I often feel unrelated to the world as well. For me, being understood is an aspect of deep bonds that is highly appealing to me. Since many people don't understand and don't "fill up the water jug," it's nice when someone understands. I think Infj's, I know I definitely do, have a deep need to be understood.
    I'm struggling with this so hard right now. It's literally painful. The people closest to me in my life don't understand me... and it's really hard. They are an INTJ and ESTJ at the moment. I'm really run-down, so I apologize if this post seems exceptionally negative - please forgive it. I just called another INFJ friend who struggles with these things in her relationship w/ an INTJ as well, and she is able to talk about them so articulately.

    Here's the crux of it: other people close to you may not understand you (your withdrawal, your need for bed [sleepy/reading bed is what i'm referring to in this case, not sex-bed], your need for alone-time -- but they must respect and accept it. And it's okay to fight for that. To say, "no, I'm not going on a trip this weekend. My energy level is simply not there," and then go back to your book/run/nap/TV and not feel the least bit guilty. Hard, no? Imagine a sad significant other... but I guess that's why we are in this forum, having this dialog to better understand ourselves, then going over to the "Common issues among INFJs" thread and figuring out how other types see it and how to engage about it.

    The thought 'what is so wrong with me?' (in the, there-MUST-be-something,-but-I-can't-figure-out what-vein) has occurred from time to time, but not very often.
    I feel like this a lot (I think I'm just burnt out from a 3 hours of daily commuting and lack of any personal space + being busy -- would this wear you out, INFJs? Help me feel like less of a freak - humor me and say yes!)

    @Chelsea - how come you despise the word "yearn"? Is it because it sounds like yarn?

  7. #27
    Junior Member La de Longe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    In my experience, INFJs are prone to vanity.
    Interesting, can you explain this?

    As a teenager I don't think I ever struggled with confidence and self-esteem. If anything I probably tended more towards arrogance, not that the two are mutually exclusive though. It wasn't until I got to college that I felt any kind of peer-pressure, and it was almost entirely due to realizing just how lacking my social skills were. Between that and attending a college where it seemed like every-fucking-body was smart, motivated, socially-competent, responsible, etc. I think did loose a lot of confidence in myself, because I felt like I just couldn't keep up with any of it. I feel like I'm still recovering from that, and even though people have told me that I can come across as really self-assured, I also often feel completely unmotivated to accomplish anything.

    On vanity, at times I think I have used appearance as a means of feeling better about myself. I'm not proud to admit this, but there have been times when I've thought to myself "well, maybe that girl got a better grade than me, but at least I'm better dressed than her." And that sounds really bad, but it's happened.

  8. #28
    Senior Member ItsAGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochajava View Post
    I feel like this a lot (I think I'm just burnt out from a 3 hours of daily commuting and lack of any personal space + being busy -- would this wear you out, INFJs? Help me feel like less of a freak - humor me and say yes!)
    Okay, I feel that way more often when dragged down, less so otherwise. 3 hours of community... .... .. ......... ......... ..... dot dot dot. That's awful. I couldn't last long at a job that required that!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #29
    Junior Member ms-mngrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochajava View Post
    Chelsea:

    I'm struggling with this so hard right now. It's literally painful. The people closest to me in my life don't understand me... and it's really hard. They are an INTJ and ESTJ at the moment. I'm really run-down, so I apologize if this post seems exceptionally negative - please forgive it. I just called another INFJ friend who struggles with these things in her relationship w/ an INTJ as well, and she is able to talk about them so articulately.

    Here's the crux of it: other people close to you may not understand you (your withdrawal, your need for bed [sleepy/reading bed is what i'm referring to in this case, not sex-bed], your need for alone-time -- but they must respect and accept it. And it's okay to fight for that. To say, "no, I'm not going on a trip this weekend. My energy level is simply not there," and then go back to your book/run/nap/TV and not feel the least bit guilty. Hard, no? Imagine a sad significant other... but I guess that's why we are in this forum, having this dialog to better understand ourselves, then going over to the "Common issues among INFJs" thread and figuring out how other types see it and how to engage about it.

    I feel like this a lot (I think I'm just burnt out from a 3 hours of daily commuting and lack of any personal space + being busy -- would this wear you out, INFJs? Help me feel like less of a freak - humor me and say yes!)

    You are not alone!! While I don't have a long commute to/from work, I do have to interact a lot with people (I'm a teacher) and at the end of this school year I felt exhausted--I had an incredibly busy year with (also!) little personal space. When I get home I can mostly regenerate/recoup, but sometimes at the expense of personal relationships.

    @Chelsea - how come you despise the word "yearn"? Is it because it sounds like yarn?
    This is darn ^ funny!!!
    Funny the way it is, if you think about it...
    Dave Matthews

  10. #30
    Junior Member ms-mngrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochajava View Post
    Chelsea:

    I'm struggling with this so hard right now. It's literally painful. The people closest to me in my life don't understand me... and it's really hard. They are an INTJ and ESTJ at the moment. I'm really run-down, so I apologize if this post seems exceptionally negative - please forgive it. I just called another INFJ friend who struggles with these things in her relationship w/ an INTJ as well, and she is able to talk about them so articulately.

    Here's the crux of it: other people close to you may not understand you (your withdrawal, your need for bed [sleepy/reading bed is what i'm referring to in this case, not sex-bed], your need for alone-time -- but they must respect and accept it. And it's okay to fight for that. To say, "no, I'm not going on a trip this weekend. My energy level is simply not there," and then go back to your book/run/nap/TV and not feel the least bit guilty. Hard, no? Imagine a sad significant other... but I guess that's why we are in this forum, having this dialog to better understand ourselves, then going over to the "Common issues among INFJs" thread and figuring out how other types see it and how to engage about it.

    I feel like this a lot (I think I'm just burnt out from a 3 hours of daily commuting and lack of any personal space + being busy -- would this wear you out, INFJs? Help me feel like less of a freak - humor me and say yes!)

    @Chelsea - how come you despise the word "yearn"? Is it because it sounds like yarn?
    Quote Originally Posted by ms-mngrl View Post
    This is darn ^ funny!!!
    (I mean only the yearn/yarn part--I didn't get the quotes right the first time.
    Funny the way it is, if you think about it...
    Dave Matthews

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