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  1. #31
    Member Rachel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellachiara View Post
    INFJs like having their insights respected and listened to.
    INFJs like being responded to as genuinely as they approach others.
    INFJs like being gently teased into being less serious.
    INFJs like when people give them time and patience while they struggle to verbalize their intuitive insights.
    INFJs like being made to feel like part of the group -- it happens so rarely
    INFJs don't like to be pushed into participating in social events.
    INFJs don't like advice from people whose opinion they don't respect.
    INFJs don't like disharmonious and conflictful environments.
    INFJs don't like being inauthentic, ever.
    INFJS don't like people who constantly talk and never give a moment's peace.

    I hate being teased into being less serious. :steam:

  2. #32
    Member Fenekk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAGuy View Post
    This INFJ believes in evolution =)

    And HEY, a NaNo!
    Yep, I can't wait for November!

    Quote Originally Posted by mochajava View Post
    Wait, do we mean evolution as in... evolution vs. creationism? Or evolution vs. revolution? or personally evolving into something better / more enlightened / stronger, whatever?
    Mochajava brings up a good point. I assumed you meant evolution as in evolution vs. creationism. (Assumption fail?)
    NaNoWriMo 2010 [[Nahe: Iveor]]
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  3. #33
    Senior Member ItsAGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenekk View Post
    Yep, I can't wait for November!
    =D ... I started in '08 ... then wrote an actual 125000 word novel based on that in '09 and then filled up NANO09 with possible sequel material... but now I'm debating how to rewrite the novel. Geez, where'd all the time go?
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  4. #34
    Senior Member ItsAGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenekk View Post
    Mochajava brings up a good point. I assumed you meant evolution as in evolution vs. creationism. (Assumption fail?)
    For me, I believe the universes are what they appear to be... ancient, evolving, dying, birthing, etc, with life weaving in and out of the whole drama all the time. I also have no problem with the concept of god, and I was raised on ether catholic or christian beliefs (i seriously can't tell the difference anymore, I'm so far removed from organized religion now.)

    Actually, let me try to explain it the way I see it. Early on, humanity wondered where things like the sky and the moon and fire and animals and trees came from. After a while, we kinda sorta figured some of these things out, but what we discovered led us to more questions. Well, if the moon came from earth, where did earth come from? It came from an interstellar explosion of a previous and more massive star? Okay, but where did that star come from? An aging galaxy that has undergone myriad collisions with many other galaxies over it's multi billion year existence. Well, where'd the galaxy come from? A universe that sprang seemingly out of nowhere, if the math has anything to say about it, right? Well, actually we have better math now that suggests this universe is just one of quadrillions that exist where 5 dimensional membranes touch each other in a larger 11 dimensional sea of god-knows-what? Okay... but where did THAT come from? Math has done right by us in the past, so we needn't discount it entirely just because we can't prove the results YET. The point becomes, this question always comes with an answer that requires the question be asked all over again... infinitely. No matter what, the you can always ask 'but where did THAT come from?' over and over and over.

    Even god can't be used to plug in that hole in existence (so far as I can tell, anyways... one thing that drove me away from religion was people dictating what others need to believe) since a human being is still clever enough to ask 'but where did S/HE come from?' You know?

    So I call it the singularity (yes, this term is used for many things) ... but it is a never-ending fount of questions. So... what then? I have FAITH! I exist... you exist (I think... you aren't a bot are you?) By some strange mechanism of the impossibly-never-beginning-multiverse, we still exist anyways. Without being able to know how or why, no matter how many layers of the grand onion we peel back, we're going to eventually have to accept we DO exist... and try to EXIST as best as possible, no?

    So I definitely believe in evolution; and have faith that somehow this WAS all created... one way or another.
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  5. #35
    Member Fenekk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAGuy View Post
    =D ... I started in '08 ... then wrote an actual 125000 word novel based on that in '09 and then filled up NANO09 with possible sequel material... but now I'm debating how to rewrite the novel. Geez, where'd all the time go?
    Hey, I started in '08 too! '09 was the same material, just adding on to '08. I'm writing a novel series right now, which will probably be a trilogy and maybe more; I'm not sure how it is going to go quite yet, but I have spent so much time working on the information and not "doing" (shame shame). I am thinking I will try to work on it periodically up until November, at which point I will take off like a speeding bullet or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAGuy View Post
    For me, I believe the universes are what they appear to be... ancient, evolving, dying, birthing, etc, with life weaving in and out of the whole drama all the time. I also have no problem with the concept of god, and I was raised on ether catholic or christian beliefs (i seriously can't tell the difference anymore, I'm so far removed from organized religion now.)

    Actually, let me try to explain it the way I see it. Early on, humanity wondered where things like the sky and the moon and fire and animals and trees came from. After a while, we kinda sorta figured some of these things out, but what we discovered led us to more questions. Well, if the moon came from earth, where did earth come from? It came from an interstellar explosion of a previous and more massive star? Okay, but where did that star come from? An aging galaxy that has undergone myriad collisions with many other galaxies over it's multi billion year existence. Well, where'd the galaxy come from? A universe that sprang seemingly out of nowhere, if the math has anything to say about it, right? Well, actually we have better math now that suggests this universe is just one of quadrillions that exist where 5 dimensional membranes touch each other in a larger 11 dimensional sea of god-knows-what? Okay... but where did THAT come from? Math has done right by us in the past, so we needn't discount it entirely just because we can't prove the results YET. The point becomes, this question always comes with an answer that requires the question be asked all over again... infinitely. No matter what, the you can always ask 'but where did THAT come from?' over and over and over.
    It sounds like you've really thought this through. I make a point in accepting the points of view of others, even if I don't agree with them. However, I am a Baptist Christian myself, so I have some pretty strict opinions myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAGuy View Post
    Even god can't be used to plug in that hole in existence (so far as I can tell, anyways... one thing that drove me away from religion was people dictating what others need to believe) since a human being is still clever enough to ask 'but where did S/HE come from?' You know?

    So I call it the singularity (yes, this term is used for many things) ... but it is a never-ending fount of questions. So... what then? I have FAITH! I exist... you exist (I think... you aren't a bot are you?) By some strange mechanism of the impossibly-never-beginning-multiverse, we still exist anyways. Without being able to know how or why, no matter how many layers of the grand onion we peel back, we're going to eventually have to accept we DO exist... and try to EXIST as best as possible, no?

    So I definitely believe in evolution; and have faith that somehow this WAS all created... one way or another.
    Yeah, I can see where some people might think that God doesn't really solve all those problems. Faith indeed! Faith can go all sorts of ways.

    It sounds like you're agnostic--- kind of; like you think somehow something got created by SOMETHING but who knows what "God" is? Or was "God" anything? I know a lot of people think that Christians don't really think about the truth; they just blindly accept the religion, but believe me, I've done my share of thinking and I keep coming back to what I believed in to begin with. My faith is just the same as yours, probably, just in a different direction. I haven't come up with anything more believable to myself and honestly, more "proven" if you know what I mean. Christianity isn't all facts, but there are definitely facts that you can focus on when you look.

    I can also completely understand why you want to distance yourself from organized religion, and can't stand someone wanting to dictate what you believe. It's unfortunate that people ruin religion, but it's the sad truth. You have to be so careful about who you believe the words of. Human beings may not even realize it, but they pour so much of themselves into their "views" of religion, so that something that came from the same source can be preached in so many different ways. People can tell you to go back to the Bible, and view the source material for yourself, but there are so many different versions of the Bible that you are, again, stuck with material that has been altered by humans. In this case, I say the best you can do is go back as far as you can so the material is as raw as possible. And since I cannot read Hebrew or Greek, I suppose I have to stick with the good ol' King James. I've done the same as you by distancing myself from organized religion, though it doesn't really keep me connected with it in a way that is good for cultivating one's faith. I also don't take the evangelical approach that Christians are so detested for; rather, the point in being a Christian is to live your life in a way that you affect other people with your kindness, generosity, and overall existence. You can tell people about Jesus and God, but only if they want to hear. I believe it is your job to plant the seed, and God's to make it grow.

    Anyway, to go back to the evolution topic in general, I believe that God did not create human beings to evolve, however, animals were created with this capability to "evolve" in order to protect themselves and their species as things change on the earth. Humans, however, have something that animals don't have - we have the ability to think and reason in a capability that animals do not. We can think about the future... Animals don't think about the future; they react to the present and sometimes, they "plan" for the future in ways that are instinctual, but it's more like it is "programmed" into them rather than actual thought and reflection. Anyway, this difference is what we call "having a soul".

    Instead of "physically evolving" I suppose one could say we are "mentally evolving". As time goes by on this earth we learn more and more about the earth, about our place in this universe, about how things work, and about ourselves. We use our thinking abilities to devise ways to keep ourselves safe, entertain ourselves, etc... (When you think about it, if you apply this to the evolution theory, doesn't that seem like us Intuitive types are better evolved? LOL!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAGuy View Post
    I exist... you exist (I think... you aren't a bot are you?)
    To answer this question, I will quote from another thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Affably Evil View Post
    This is pretty funny, because I was just telling a friend the other day that I feel like a robot with Feeling modded on. Albeit a robot from the future, who cares about the destiny of the human race and wants to help everyone reach nirvana.
    Take this as you will.
    NaNoWriMo 2010 [[Nahe: Iveor]]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #36
    Junior Member stellachiara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
    I hate being teased into being less serious. :steam:
    Yeah, I mean gently, in a way that doesn't dismiss your feelings but just kindly and empathetically encourages you to laugh at yourself a little. I agree that people who are like "har har, lighten up, LOL why so serious??" are infuriating.

  7. #37
    Member Rachel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stellachiara View Post
    Yeah, I mean gently, in a way that doesn't dismiss your feelings but just kindly and empathetically encourages you to laugh at yourself a little. I agree that people who are like "har har, lighten up, LOL why so serious??" are infuriating.
    yeah. i was using the smiley for humorus effect

  8. #38
    Senior Member ItsAGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenekk View Post
    Anyway, to go back to the evolution topic in general, I believe that God did not create human beings to evolve, however, animals were created with this capability to "evolve" in order to protect themselves and their species as things change on the earth. Humans, however, have something that animals don't have - we have the ability to think and reason in a capability that animals do not. We can think about the future... Animals don't think about the future; they react to the present and sometimes, they "plan" for the future in ways that are instinctual, but it's more like it is "programmed" into them rather than actual thought and reflection. Anyway, this difference is what we call "having a soul".
    This sort of thing deserves its own thread, but for now, this is where I disagree. There's far too many cases where humanity has measurably adapted to differing conditions (melatonin levels in the skin, ability of the nepalese to breath thinner air comfortably as opposed to the rest of us, etc.) And there are too many cases where animals have been found to be quite reasonable; the octopi that experiment with their surroundings until they've figured a way over to the ample feeding grounds of a aquarium tank several tanks over... or dolphins that have invented economy on their own (circa 'saving' trash to use as money they can trade for fish when and where they want, and even conceptualizing the division of said trash for MORE fish, etc.)

    There's actually quite a lot going on in some of those brains... grey parrots are up to 3rd grade level math, etc... ravens invent tools without help from us... egrets can learn bread-fishing by observing us, though they lack the drive, currently, the will/ability to teach their young to do the same.

    I dunno! I just don't see creation and evolution as mutually exclusive. Don't take any of this as hostile as that is not the spirit in which it is said =)
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  9. #39
    Member Fenekk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsAGuy View Post
    This sort of thing deserves its own thread, but for now, this is where I disagree. There's far too many cases where humanity has measurably adapted to differing conditions (melatonin levels in the skin, ability of the nepalese to breath thinner air comfortably as opposed to the rest of us, etc.) And there are too many cases where animals have been found to be quite reasonable; the octopi that experiment with their surroundings until they've figured a way over to the ample feeding grounds of a aquarium tank several tanks over... or dolphins that have invented economy on their own (circa 'saving' trash to use as money they can trade for fish when and where they want, and even conceptualizing the division of said trash for MORE fish, etc.)

    There's actually quite a lot going on in some of those brains... grey parrots are up to 3rd grade level math, etc... ravens invent tools without help from us... egrets can learn bread-fishing by observing us, though they lack the drive, currently, the will/ability to teach their young to do the same.

    I dunno! I just don't see creation and evolution as mutually exclusive. Don't take any of this as hostile as that is not the spirit in which it is said =)
    You're right, it probably does deserve it's own thread. And don't worry; I didn't see any of it as hostile, either. In fact this is one of the least hostile 'debates' I have ever been in. I guess I knew it was ok having one with another INFJ because it wouldn't get that way. But really, all we are doing is stating our opinion and how it relates to what the other is saying, which, honestly, is what debates should be like. I guess the difference in our opinion is that you think the human change and animal change is the same thing, and I think it's on a completely different level for both.

    I have to thank you for bringing up some good points, though. It's always good to learn new things and consider how they fit into your idea of the scheme of the universe.
    NaNoWriMo 2010 [[Nahe: Iveor]]
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  10. #40
    Junior Member stellachiara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochajava View Post
    I'm 100% with you on all of these!

    Mochajava, I am with you on all yours too! I don't usually like to get or give advice though -- I find it frustrating as I don't think most people 1) follow my advice or 2) understand me well enough to give me advice. But I wish that were different.

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