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  1. #1
    Senior Member Onceajoan's Avatar
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    Default Advice about INFP male/eyegazing

    Hi You All (INFPs and other NFs)

    I'm wondering if some of you can give me some advice about a relationship I'm in with an INFP. This post might be kinda long so if you only want to respond to a couple things, I understand. Any feedback would be appreciated either way.

    This INFP guy and I have been seeing each other in a nonromantic way for a few years. We only see each other once a month or two which may seem insignificant on the surface of it. But whenever we're together, we have the most delightful, intellectual and sometimes deep conversations. I find that the more I spend time with him, the more I feel we have in common. It's clear that for some time (probably over a year) that we're attracted to each other. He does a lot of nonverbal stuff: blushing, smoothing out his hair, clothes, etc. whereas I'm more flirty. But we've never said anything about it because circumstances make it difficult for us to be involved.

    Most of the time I see him, the INFP wears a poker face. I'm never sure what he's thinking. (I understand this is common with INFPs) A few months ago, he acted similarly but all of the sudden, as if shifting in midsentence, gazed into my eyes. He wouldn't look away. But I did. I just couldn't keep the stare even though I wanted to. I looked back and he was still staring. I freaked! This happened a couple of times. I thought I was going to die! It seemed it lasted for minutes. I've never felt anything like that before. It felt surreal. It was extremely INTENSE!

    I was feeling the eye gaze for days - a sense of intoxication, head rush, heart pounding, all I was thinking about was him and...well you know... Then I started saying to myself, "I think I'm in ....with him.." But I couldn't say the word. I started thinking this is getting SOOOO ridiculously out of hand because I DON'T REALLY KNOW HIM! Well, I do know him through our conversations about politics, religion, philosophy, books, ideas. I know he's kind, thoughtful, intelligent, sophisticated, gentle, sweet, empathetic, has beautiful soulful eyes, etc. Everything I really want in a guy, but I don't really know him. I don't know about his childhood, his favorite kind of food, his first girlfriend. I REALLY DON'T KNOW HIM. How could I be in love with him? It could be infatuation, but it seems like something more because this has been going on for a while and I've already experienced infatuation with him. The fact that the eye gaze had such an intense effect is significant to me. I've never felt this way before.

    It's been a few months since the eyegazing. I want to talk to him about my experience. But I'm somewhat afraid because he's a sensitive INFP and everything related to the attraction has been nonverbal up to this point. I know that INFPss don't like unnecessary surprises or feel forced to give a response. I don't want to back him into a corner or scare him into some kind of confession. I feel that this INFP guy needs to tell me how he feels when he's ready. (Does an INFP male ever do this?) Still, I want to share with him what I experienced with him with the eye gaze. Truth is, that I feel differently when we're together now, since that experience. (It's almost like we had sex because of the intimate nature of it). We've become much more comfortable together. I can feel it in the room. I've told him that I feel extremely vulnerable in part because he knows so much more about me than I do about him. When I told him that I know he doesn't really like talking about himself. He said, "No. That's not true. I can talk about myself more if you want." So I guess that was encouraging.

    I'm wondering if his initiation of the eye gaze was a confession, his way of telling me how he feels since INFPs prefer nonverbal communication I'm told. I'm not sure where to go with this... Is he waiting for some kind of response from me? Is it really a good idea to TALK about the eye gazing experience with him or will it turn him off? Will it take away from the magic/specialness of the experience? How do I let him know how meaningful that eye gazing experience was for me without it seeming like a trap?

    Questions - Questions - And Still More Questions:

    Have any of you INFPs (or other NFs) ever had an INSTENSE eye gazing experience? What was it like? Was the fact that it was intense, significant to you?

    Do you think that if the eye gazing was intense for one, it was also significant for the other?

    What does eyegazing mean to you (INFPs)? Does it signify love, attraction, appreciation, longing? What is its specific meaning?

    Is it possible to fall in love with someone you don't really know?

    Any advice about whether I should say something about the eye gazing or leave it alone?

    I'm really having a difficult time trying to figure out what to do.

    Thanks again to those who take the time to read and respond. I know this post is rather long.
    ong.[/COLOR]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onceajoan View Post
    Hi You All (INFPs and other NFs)

    I'm wondering if his initiation of the eye gaze was a confession, his way of telling me how he feels since INFPs prefer nonverbal communication I'm told. I'm not sure where to go with this... Is he waiting for some kind of response from me? Is it really a good idea to TALK about the eye gazing experience with him or will it turn him off? Will it take away from the magic/specialness of the experience? How do I let him know how meaningful that eye gazing experience was for me without it seeming like a trap?

    Questions - Questions - And Still More Questions:

    Have any of you INFPs (or other NFs) ever had an INSTENSE eye gazing experience? What was it like? Was the fact that it was intense, significant to you?

    Do you think that if the eye gazing was intense for one, it was also significant for the other?

    What does eyegazing mean to you (INFPs)? Does it signify love, attraction, appreciation, longing? What is its specific meaning?

    Is it possible to fall in love with someone you don't really know?

    Any advice about whether I should say something about the eye gazing or leave it alone?
    ong.[/COLOR]
    For me, a male INFP, the eye gaze means everything. Unfortunately, I only really ever wanted to do it once with one girl, but she never looked me in the eye. Disappointing and needless to say, we broke up and I don't talk to her anymore.

    So to answer your question, at least in my perspective, the eye gaze is pretty much the ULTIMATE non-verbal way for me to say I love you. I am opening my entire world and soul to you when I look directly into your eyes. This is also why I am very very careful not to make direct eye contact with anyone unless I really want to. I imagine having that experience you had with your male INFP many many times and to me, it's such a significant thing.

    I can only imagine that if the person I was looking at was looking straight back at me, it would be just as intense an experience.

    And yes, I think you can fall in love with someone you "really don't know," but judging my where your relationship is with him, you know him. You know all the things that do and will matter to both of you - the books, the philosophy, the intellectual discussion. That connection will run deeper than whatever you learn or find out about the details of his personal life.

    My guess without knowing either you or him or the relationship is that this guy likes you, but he may be shy about it. If you are open and honest, he'll be open and honest in kind, but you may have to take the initiative. And yes, male INFPs can definitely be direct and open about their feelings for you, but you're right, only when they're ready. Honestly, if you guys can go a month or so without talking to each other, and then when you do meet, you can pick things up right where you left off, to me, that's a GREAT sign of good compatibility. Again, can't be sure without either you, him, or the relationship.

    My advice is to be patient, go with the flow, and wait for the right opportunity to be open and honest with him just as you have been with your post. This includes talking about the eyegazing.

    But yeah, for me, I LOOOVE nonverbal communication and consider eye gazing to be the ultimate nonverbal expression of my love for a woman. I look forward to the day when I'll get to do this.

    I hope that helps and good luck!

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    I'm in a weird mood, so this might not be the most organized post. Sorry about that.

    Interesting situation. I'm pretty sure that something is going on... In my case, staring someone like that is basically always about attraction, it's when I get this flash that reveals the other in a very special light. You might do something that I find especially cute, or it might be about getting to know something new or deeper than I've previously seen about you. Anyways, I wouldn't stare anyone if I didn't find it very pleasurable. I don't usually like to look people in the eye for more than a couple of seconds. So, to the intimacy question, yes, you probably are on a different level of intimacy with him than before.

    About "not knowing". I do that too, I don't talk much about myself in the ways you described. I don't find that kind of information very important. I might sometimes even think it is a shortcut to knowing people, kinda like a fake feeling of intimacy. The way I know people is what I see them do in different situations, but even more than that, I just get a feeling of what they are. Some Ne-thing, I guess. So, I agree with him that it's not something I wouldn't do, it just is something I won't do spontaneously.

    Talking to him about it isn't a bad idea, but you must remember that it might be something else. Maybe he isn't attracted to you. But if he is, and if you do talk to him, be ready for some sort of freaky behavior. I tend to screw up things by opening up too suddenly or in a wrong place or time, so, I'm not sure if I would prefer the talk. I mean I would love to hear someone I'm attracted to to tell me that they were thinking about a moment with me... but the scenario I have in mind after that... it's something like, I will tell you about my feelings, and then somehow go overboard with it and then you freak out and then I'll regret. OR, I might be so weirded out by the situation that I freeze and can't tell you what I would like to, and then you freak out.

    Maybe it is better if you try to subtly steer the things you do in a more intimate direction. You'll probably see if he feels uncomfortable with it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Onceajoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    For me, a male INFP, the eye gaze means everything. Unfortunately, I only really ever wanted to do it once with one girl, but she never looked me in the eye. Disappointing and needless to say, we broke up and I don't talk to her anymore.
    Wow! Did you actually break up because of the disappointing eye gaze? In my case, I really, really wanted to keep looking at him but I got too nervous. I counted to 3 and he was still looking and it totally freaked me out. I have to give you credit. You must be self confident if you can actually look into a girl's eyes like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    So to answer your question, at least in my perspective, the eye gaze is pretty much the ULTIMATE non-verbal way for me to say I love you.
    I agree. But it can mean other things as well. I'm really attracted to you. I really want to have sex with you. I want to get to know you better in a physical (or maybe non physical) manner. The difference between sex and love is tricky. This makes me confused. If he's attracted to me or wants me that's fine. I'd like to know if there's something more. But of course, he's a man.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    I am opening my entire world and soul to you when I look directly into your eyes.
    Yeah. This is what freaked me out. It was surreal. Almost like a drug induced experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    And yes, I think you can fall in love with someone you "really don't know," but judging my where your relationship is with him, you know him. You know all the things that do and will matter to both of you - the books, the philosophy, the intellectual discussion. That connection will run deeper than whatever you learn or find out about the details of his personal life.
    I really appreciate what you said here because it's what I've been struggling with. I've never fallen in love with a man before having sex with him. Sex has always been something I've done in the process of knowing a man. I've never have experienced this feeling of connection. It's really scary because I feel there's a sense of immediacy - it feels real and genuine. So why am I scared? I've always thought that "knowing someone" is knowing the details of their personal life. It's never occurred to me that it could happen any other way. Through this relationship I'm starting to question whether I've ever experienced intimacy. I think INFPs have something important to teach here. From what I've read about INFPs, they seem more interested in the here and now, the experience, they're less judgmental, less concerned about where someone comes from or their pedigree. I've said a few things about my past that I'm ashamed of and this INFP guy is so nonjudgmental. And the fact that he's so nonjudgmental freaks me out - while you would think that it would be the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    My advice is to be patient, go with the flow, and wait for the right opportunity to be open and honest with him just as you have been with your post. This includes talking about the eyegazing.
    Thanks so very much here. I look forward to seeing what other people post, of course, but I think that the "go with the flow" albeit difficult for me as J(very J) is the best. It's worked so far while I've uncomfortably sat on my hands and I've bitten my tongue numerous times. I've read enough about relationships with INFPs suggest that the other take it slow with them. You see, my natural tendency is to be direct almost to the point of being blunt. I actually can be quite aggressive. I have thought all along that would only scare him away.

    But, will I have to wait forever? If an INFP male has sufficient feelings will he eventually make a move?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Onceajoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Interesting situation. I'm pretty sure that something is going on... In my case, staring someone like that is basically always about attraction, it's when I get this flash that reveals the other in a very special light. You might do something that I find especially cute, or it might be about getting to know something new or deeper than I've previously seen about you.
    hmmm...this is an interesting way to look at eye gazing. In a previous relationship there was a guy that stared at me for this reason, I think. Although I did not make the association at the time. I can now see (because of the way you described it) that a stare or eye gaze could be a recognition of something special - something newly discovered in another person. Thanks for sharing this insight. It did seem to be a recognition of something special - a special quality - something that was newly seen or experienced through the other person.

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    I don't talk much about myself in the ways you described. I don't find that kind of information very important. I might sometimes even think it is a shortcut to knowing people, kinda like a fake feeling of intimacy. The way I know people is what I see them do in different situations, but even more than that, I just get a feeling of what they are. Some Ne-thing, I guess. So, I agree with him that it's not something I wouldn't do, it just is something I won't do spontaneously.
    Okay. Now you're the second INFP that's said basically the same thing in this post. Is there a trend?

    I might sometimes even think it is a shortcut to knowing people, kinda like a fake feeling of intimacy.

    ^ This is the most important INFP statement, I think. Playing by his rules I can probably learn a thing or two.

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Talking to him about it isn't a bad idea, but you must remember that it might be something else. Maybe he isn't attracted to you.
    This is a possibility, of course. But I'm high N (extremely intuitive). I really, really think he is attracted to me regardless of his often cool, nonchalant INFP ways. It's just that he might not want to acknowledge the attraction verbally because of the difficulties it might create for us. IDK. I think it feels safer for people to express themselves nonverbally than verbally. I've thought about gazing into his eyes but I think it would be too difficult for me. I don't have any practice and I'd probably end up laughing in embarrassment. It all seems so contrived. And THAT would be embarrassing.

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    But if he is, and if you do talk to him, be ready for some sort of freaky behavior. I tend to screw up things by opening up too suddenly or in a wrong place or time, so, I'm not sure if I would prefer the talk. I mean I would love to hear someone I'm attracted to to tell me that they were thinking about a moment with me... but the scenario I have in mind after that... it's something like, I will tell you about my feelings, and then somehow go overboard with it and then you freak out and then I'll regret. OR, I might be so weirded out by the situation that I freeze and can't tell you what I would like to, and then you freak out.
    This is so good here, Nolla. Yeah. I've got my lines all figured out and rehearsed and I can't help thinking, this is going to go real BAD. He (INFP male) is going to have no idea how the heck to respond. I can see him freaking out, I can see him freezing, I can see him being nonresponsive or cold in his response.

    And, why do I insist that I need to say something?
    - Because it seems we've reached a new level of intimacy. I want an authentic, honest relationship with him and I can't pretend the eyegazing didn't happen. It was a profound experience for me and I believe I need to let him know. The only way I know how to let him know is to tell him verbally. Would it be better if I tried to communicate this nonverbally or should I write him a note?


    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Maybe it is better if you try to subtly steer the things you do in a more intimate direction. You'll probably see if he feels uncomfortable with it.
    This sounds like it could be an interesting suggestion:

    subtly steer things in a more intimate direction

    We need a voiceover for that line...deep, feminine and raspy.

    Any suggestions on how to steer subtly? I don't so subtle well. I'm stuck here.

    Thanks for all the ideas, Nolla.

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    It really depends on him on whether or not being direct might scare him. I may be quite different from him in a lot of ways. I actually appreciate directness and honesty, most of the time anyways, but I might be a little bit stunned and feel put on the spot if someone is too aggressive.

    Re: Sex. I think sex brings you to a level of closeness to another person that makes everything extremely vulnerable. Personally, I can't do it unless I feel close to the person in every other way. I'm very slow in that respect. I'm not sure I'd agree with what you said about the here and now aspect of the INFP, (it's actual something I strive for, not really where I am currently) but sex, for me, is the very last thing I'll do in a relationship in terms of building intimacy. The physical act of sex adds this stamp of closeness in a very REAL sense whereas everything else - the attraction, chemistry, intellectual discussion - is still in the abstract world. As much as I love the abstract world and live in it, there is no doubt in my mind that things that happen in REALITY is much more significant.

    What the gaze means, of course, will differ for each person. I'm just telling you what it means to me, it could mean something completely different for your man.

    And about my ex, she broke up with me actually and the eye gaze had very little, if anything, directly to do with the break up. It was just something I recall as being another aspect of our relationship that made us incompatible. And to make it clear, I was trying to gaze into her eyes, but she was always looking away. That pretty much sums up what our relationship was like.

    And will you have to wait forever? For me, I first have to have those sufficient feelings, and then (this is important to me) I make a move at the right time in the right way - which is slow and very subtle (really depends on what the object of my affection is like and where our relationship is - if the potential SO is more literal, i try to be more direct and literal). But that's just me, and that's IF i like the person. I wish I could answer that last question for you, but it's just something that's impossible for me to say without actually BEING the guy you like.

    Feel free to ask me more questions. This is actually helping me as well.

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    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Just go for the kiss when he's making that kind of eye-contact. He wants to, he just hasn't worked up the nerve yet. Maybe he's second-guessing whether you actually like him or are just 'being nice'. Seems pretty clear to me that you guys both have a big thing for each other. INFP males can carry on the tragic unrequited love shtick for years though, so unless that sounds like a good time you might want to speed things along by giving him a clear, unambiguous sign that you like him back. A kiss would do that, or you could ask for one, or you could ask him out on a date. I dunno, whichever you're up for.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by JivinJeffJones; 08-13-2010 at 04:46 AM. Reason: added "males"

  8. #8
    Senior Member Onceajoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    Feel free to ask me more questions. This is actually helping me as well.
    Thanks for all the feedback you've provided thus far. This has been helpful for me to see how an INFP could possibly look at things (and in turn, how he might look at things). But of course, people are individuals. You are not him (at least I hope not - that would be really embarrassing! LOL). I appreciate your comments about intimacy because that's the issue that has me confused the most.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    It really depends on him on whether or not being direct might scare him. I may be quite different from him in a lot of ways. I actually appreciate directness and honesty, most of the time anyways, but I might be a little bit stunned and feel put on the spot if someone is too aggressive.
    Well. I think the INFP I'm speaking of is actually a pretty healthy person. The issue probably lies with my own insecurities rather than his response (I know that's not what I said earlier, is it?) I have opened up to him in ways I didn't feel comfortable doing and he was very accepting. I don't think he would actually be scared considering his past behavior. It's a projection of my own fear. (WOW - that's a revelation!) I've been with others who have been incapable of intimacy (and it's not something I have much experience with either). Being with him is quite different from what I've experienced with men in the past. So, it's more a fear of saying the wrong thing and losing him, or coming on too strong, completely misinterpreting the situation and he'll feel a need to provide his tactful/diplomatic response so as to not hurt my feelings but feeling he'll hurt my feelings anyways.

    I am very honest and authentic which I know he values. I just tend to say things in a very matter of a fact kind of way that could suck all the romance out of the room. I'm not really aggressive as I suggested earlier, rather I'm direct and expressive. I have a strong need for self expression which is not being fullfilled in my current life. I need to express my feelings and share my experiences through language. Whereas, he seems fine with the ambivalent status of the relationship and subtle acknowledgement of our mutual fondness and/or attraction for each other, I feel a need for something tangible. But I'm open. I'm open to try something else. It's just a challenge because it forces me to operate in a different modality. I feel he has so much to teach me in this area.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    Re: Sex. I think sex brings you to a level of closeness to another person that makes everything extremely vulnerable. Personally, I can't do it unless I feel close to the person in every other way. I'm very slow in that respect. I'm not sure I'd agree with what you said about the here and now aspect of the INFP, (it's actual something I strive for, not really where I am currently) but sex, for me, is the very last thing I'll do in a relationship in terms of building intimacy.
    This is what I've read in other forums. INFPs are generally not interested in one night stands. I would say that, in general, INFPs tend to take more care in building a relationship and taking it seriously (that is, committing to the other person).

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    The physical act of sex adds this stamp of closeness in a very REAL sense whereas everything else - the attraction, chemistry, intellectual discussion - is still in the abstract world. As much as I love the abstract world and live in it, there is no doubt in my mind that things that happen in REALITY is much more significant.
    Hmmm. I wonder if you're a Enneagram Type Five. I do hear about how INFPs (and Fives) tend to live in their own little imaginative worlds with imaginary friends, ghosts and goblins, that they can be distracted by this world, valuing their privacy they can cut themselves off from others. The ABSTRACT seems to be more valued than REALITY when it seems to become the focus of most of ones attention. I don't see how reality is viewed as more significant in this context. (I'm not challenging you as somehow misguided, I'm just trying to understand - I'm just not intuiting that an INFP would value REALITY more - and yet again, I know we're not talking about INFPs, we're talking about YOU).

    Why is SEX more real than any other human experience? An intellectual discussion is real, isn't it (although it has an abstract quality to it)?

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    What the gaze means, of course, will differ for each person. I'm just telling you what it means to me, it could mean something completely different for your man.
    Got it. Well. I guess I could imagine it means the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    And about my ex, she broke up with me actually and the eye gaze had very little, if anything, directly to do with the break up.
    Sorry. I misunderstood.


    Quote Originally Posted by SecondBest View Post
    And will you have to wait forever? For me, I first have to have those sufficient feelings, and then (this is important to me) I make a move at the right time in the right way - which is slow and very subtle (really depends on what the object of my affection is like and where our relationship is - if the potential SO is more literal, i try to be more direct and literal). But that's just me, and that's IF i like the person.


    So basically, you're telling me "YES" I will have to wait forever because either:
    1) if he's not interested so there will NEVER be a move - get over it lady!
    2) it will move so slowly I will wait forever - I'll be dead and buried
    3) it'll be so subtle a move I won't recognize it as such so he'll feel rejected (eye gazing could fall into this category. Right? If I miss this move there won't be another).

    This makes me laugh >>>I make a move at the right time in the right way - which is slow and very subtle Sounds like a snake or some other kind of animal. Very cute.

    But that's just me, and that's IF i like the person. [/quote]

    IF i like the person? That's harsh! What's the selection criteria?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onceajoan View Post
    Any suggestions on how to steer subtly? I don't so subtle well. I'm stuck here.
    More touching!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Just go for the kiss when he's making that kind of eye-contact. He wants to, he just hasn't worked up the nerve yet.
    dang. fail. I was thinking I should of kissed him (after the fact). I was so stunned by the experience I didn't know what to do. It's like those animals hit by a stun gun - LOL. "I'm captured -- now what do I do? Nowhere to run. Nowhere to hide. "

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    INFPs can carry on the tragic unrequited love shtick for years though, so unless that sounds like a good time you might want to speed things along by giving him a clear, unambiguous sign that you like him back.
    yeah. that sounds like a good time. helloooooo. this has been going on for almost two years while I've patiently waited and consulted INFP forums like this for advice. I could try to stick it out but I don't think I can much longer after the eye gaze. As I mentioned earlier, it seems that our relationship has changed/deepened since the eye gazing. I'm having extreme difficulty maintaining my composure, acting as if nothing is going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    A kiss would do that, or you could ask for one, or you could ask him I out on a date. I dunno, whichever you're up for.
    you are so right. the kiss it is. at the right time. at the right moment. in the right mood *takes a deep breath* I just need to muster up the courage. It's funny - last time I saw him, all I could think to say (but of course I didn't) was "kiss me you fool!" idk - I heard it in a movie somewhere. It sounds romantic to me. I don't suppose an INFP male would take that line very well.

    Thank you JivinJeffJones. I've seen you around different forums. I'm glad you responded to this one. You always give such wise and practical advice.

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