This might make me sound tacky and new-agey, but I believe the elements that are beyond our control have a force of its own, their own voice. And they speak to us in various ways, also very subtlely (and I know how much you hate subtlety
), so you just have to pay extra special attention to what's going on. Even the conversation I'm having with you right now, I believe, is the universe trying to guide me through something that's been on my mind (which I'll explain later in my next response). I think it's something my fellow INFPs can understand, seeing the world in this way.
Sorry, Second Best. I've been intending to reply earlier, but I got distracted by the donimatrix conversation. We've kinda got off topic here.
No. Subtle is okay. I just think it's a bit risky as a strategy because one takes the chance at being misinterpreted or being ignored. Being direct is my natual "go to" because of its effectiveness. Of course, when it comes to romance, subtlety leads more to the imagination (and perhaps enables the other to decide where they want the relationship to go next OR not. Or better yet, the other has no expectations at all). This is why (after reading the various) threads, I believe it's better not to verbalize, though that would be my natural tendency. As you mentioned earlier, something like, you've learned to trust the process of relationship evolution. It happens on its own timetable. I think this leads to a different experience.
As far as the universe goes, yeah, I feel that there are forces greater than ourselves at work. I don't believe that everything necessarily happens for a reason, but I do believe that there are people we were meant to meet with during our lifetimes. We meet special other people because they have something to teach us (i.e. "life" lessons). I read Gary Zukav's book, "The Seat of the Soul" a few years ago. (I'm almost embarrassed to say so since Gary Zukav was promoted quite a bit on the Oprah Winfrey show). Anyways, besides what I feel was a weak premise and spiritual perspective, something he said struck a chord. Zukav said something like, we're all in earth school together (it's like being in school) and we all have certain lessons to learn - some need to learn compassion, some need to learn to be brave, others need to learn patience. In order to graduate, as part of one's developmental process prior to death, we need to learn our life lesson. There are people we are destined to meet that will help us learn our life lesson. For me, I know that I have to learn to "let go" because I have a strong need to control things. I'm working on it but I haven't mastered it yet. There are few people I have met in the past who have had a profound impact on me in the way that Zukav mentions. I feel that the INFP guy that I've mentioned is one of these people.
Well, believe it or not, my slow and subtle approach came out of finding a balance point, as usually, I'd be TOO direct with people. I grew up with an INFJ mother in a household that was quite conflict ridden and everyone would just twitch in anticipation just to call someone else out on something. So I guess you can say, I picked up on it a little bit? As careful as I'd like to be, I value courage in myself even more and I can honestly say in my life that there has never been an opportunity, romantically that is, where I was too timid or shy to have ruined the chance to be with someone. It's something I really like about myself - I definitely don't let fear become a factor.
Fear
IS a factor for me. As a woman it's been easy for me to cop out though, because I tend to let the guy make all the moves. I take none of the responsibility. And to be honest, I don't want any of the responsibility. That's not very brave, is it?
I guess I emphasize slow and subtle in approaching someone because it's the latest way I've approached someone I fell pretty hard for. It was an online thing, so there's lots of room for miscommunication there. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, (it seems she wasn't interested in me) but there was no way (she was an INFP as well) that she didn't know I liked her and was interested in being closer to her. Or at least, I'd be very very very surprised if she didn't.
Yeah. I think that's one of the shortcomings of subtly. Although, I sense, based on my own experience thus far that this approach leads to more authentic depths and expressions of feelings. Now, looking back at my previous romantic experiences, they did seem to proceed by a more formulatic and artificial manner. I didn't feel the same way I'm feeling right now with the INFP. I like how it feels so natural and real (and free, in a way).
I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.
So this is to say, I adjust my approach to the person, just as you're adjusting your approach to your INFP, and being as thoughtful as talking to other INFPs in an MBTI forum before you make your move is definitely the right way to go. With the ISFJs I've loved in the past, I was very clear, literal, and direct (yet mindful of their feelings) because that's the way THEY communicate. So yeah, just single-mindedly taking one approach to everything I think just doesn't work - adapt, adapt, adapt. I may have been unintentionally misleading in my previous posts about this.
Yeah. Adjusting ones approach to the other is ideal, but requires self reflection and insight. This is something I never did (or thought to do) before in previous relationships. I think it would have been helpful in retrospect. But, I wasn't, then, where I am today.
However, to play devil's advocate, shouldn't we all just be themselves rather than adjusting ourselves to be like someone else? If I'm being infpish to please an infp, then I'm not really being myself, am I? As an
NF (borderline NT) , I feel very uncomfortable being
S. I don't think I could be literal and concrete to suit an
S, it's just not my style. My humor is very dry and there's many an
S that simply does not understand me. Trying to be ISFJ would be torture for me. The relationship would probably not work either. But that's me.
I used to do this kind of testing you're talking about. Dreaming about the ideal girl, and doing a overlay of this ideal girl on a real girl and seeing how well the two pieces fit. But somewhere along the way, I realized something that was and is pretty much at the center of who I am:
So what if I get lucky and I meet that PERFECT woman? What makes me think that this PERFECT woman is going to be interested in me? That's when I realized something big: if I want to be with the PERFECT woman, then I have to be the PERFECT man. Much of my life since then has been about constructing this idea of what the perfect man would be like and then becoming that man. Have I achieved this goal? It's tough to say. It's an exhausting and painful endeavor and somewhere along the way, I literally tapped out. I don't believe I've failed, but I'm not fully comfortably saying that I succeeded. Oh, and this is not to say I wanted to be the perfect man for everyone. Definitely not the case and I'm not even sure I'd want that. This is to be the perfect man for MY perfect woman.
Why PERFECT? I'm a bit of a perfectionist but I don't understand why PERFECT WOMAN or PERFECT MAN would be a standard to be strived for since that person doesn't exist. I'm not trying to criticize you, I'm just trying to see where you're coming from. I understand that many INFPs have their sense of the ideal mate. AND they give a lot of thought to what this ideal mate looks like. Huh. I find that a little intimidating given I'm interested in an INFP. I keep thinking he has this standard of the ideal/perfect mate and that somehow I'll fall short because he'll discover something that totally turns him off - something that doesn't fit his list of criteria (for example: maybe I'm a little too sarcastic, maybe a little overweight, maybe I'm a little more judgmental than an INFP would be so it's unacceptable - to be rejected). Yeah. This is definitely intimidating knowing that INFPs tend to be this way. Measuring me against an ideal that doesn't exist doesn't seem fair. Yet I understand INFPs to be very tolerant and nonjudgmental so it seems to be a bit of a contradiction.
I've started to wonder whether the girl I fell for online is pondering these same questions. No matter how hard I think about it, and how hard I search for any hints in our history that she may have even been remotely interested in me, or re-construct different possibilities and scenarios in my head, the answer, in the end, is pretty clear. She's not interested.
Yeah. My last relationship was just like this
^
I was devastated. His last words to me were, "I never had any feelings for you." That's why I'm reluctant to make a move with this INFP guy. I was fooled once, I don't want to be fooled again. In my past relationship, the guy gave every impression of being interested in me, although it was (again) subtle in its communication. I realized that he was just using me all along. It took me a long time to get over him.
So, again, I'm sorry. I know this is not an easy thing.
It may be because she's had such terrible relationship experiences that she's deathly afraid of new ones. Or she's not interested in me directly. Or she took the slow and subtle approach at a DEAD SLOW pace, though the last one seems very unlikely to me. Either way, she had to know I liked her - it was pretty obvious, just take my word for it on that one. I was hoping if she was afraid, she'd feel more at ease if she knew my feelings for her. You might suggest I find out for sure, but it's too late now. She's gone and I also have no idea who she is, what she looks like, where she lives, contact info, etc.
Just wasn't meant to be.
Social awkwardness... it is not actually so that there was never a girl interested in me, but first I wasn't and second even if I was I would probably mess it up anyway.
