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[INFP] Advice about INFP male/eyegazing

runvardh

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Prolonged physical contact that is not seemingly accidental would help me in that situation, but don't touch my crotch till we start mack'n.

Edit: Also, don't light up (cigarette) while I'm about to try and don't have a lucid kid in line of sight.
 

Onceajoan

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I've just been hurt too many times by my own imagination and I'm looking for an alternative - the only one available being reality.

I find that to be an interesting perspective. I've never considered being hurt by my imagination. I tend to get hurt by reality more than anything else (i.e. my own limitations, my life time on this planet, my inability to freely express myself, the fact that others don't care, the fact that I'm not really living the life I want - okay I'll stop because I'm getting depressed). It's the fantasy versus the harsh reality of existence. Nothing is seemingly as it is suppose to be yet if you practice mindfulness, everything is as it is suppose to be (?) I've been hurt so many times by reality that I prefer fantasy. Although I spend most of my time and thoughts in the real world.


I think this was just a poor choice of words on my part in the abstract vs. reality sense re: sex. You're right, sex is just as real as the intellectual discussion, but I guess - I'm not sure what I really mean, honestly. I guess what I'm trying to say is that something happens to the two people in a metaphysical sense that brings them together... I guess I'm trying to say sex "seals the deal" in terms of closeness. You can't get any closer to a person than sex? I don't know.

No apologies necessary for word choices. I was just aiming at clarification because I'm really interested in the sex/intimacy connection. I understand that men and women tend to see this differently. Women typically want initimacy before sex whereas men see sex as a form of intimate expression which may lead to love. It seems that maybe some INFP men are different in this regard. Most any man I have ever dated has wanted sex fairly early in our relationship. This was okay when I was younger because I was interested too and we shared some level of connection, caring and trust. But I don't think the sex ever felt truly intimate. Now I'm starting to understand the reason.

When you say, "sex seals the deal" in terms of closeness, it could also be understood in terms of biochemistry. The brain releases a lot of hormones during sex - oxytocin being one of them (I think) responsible for bonding between couples :hug: Maybe sex seems more concrete in this sense. Things are happening between bodies obviously, but also in the brain which regulates our behavior and thoughts.

Honestly, when it comes down to it, reading your situation, IMO you just have to take the plunge. Do what you'd normally do and say how you'd normally say it. The real anxiety I see in all this is that you're trying to know something that you can't really know unless you make the decision you need to make - which is to tell him how you feel. I can appreciate trying to be as careful and as certain as possible before you make the decision, but the only real certainty can only come once you've taken that leap. And based on what you're saying it seems like the right decision.

Do you know? You INFPs are a little too diplomatic for my liking. I feel like I'm trying to read between the lines to get at the horrible truth you're trying to hide from me. *cringes* *lifts veil to cover eyes* Yeah, yeah, yeah -- I've gotta take the plunge. Being myself is the best approach. But you can see that I really don't want to know how he feels if I'm the one who has to illicit a response. Still -- I have to do something or I'll be waiting around forever or in regret of never having said or done anything.

LOL, you're probably right. I do sound like a snake, but I'd probably pick a less evil looking animal. A sloth perhaps? Or a snail? :p

No. Stay with the snake. They're sexy! Sloths and snails are boring as hell. INFPs are stealth and cool and slick. Yeah, you're right. Not very INFP.

Selection criteria of whether I like someone? God, that's a big question. I used to have criteria when I was much younger, but not so much anymore. I trust the chemistry - if it's strong and it just feels right I'll do it.

That sounds kinda random. When you said, "that is, IF I like them" (or something like that) I thought that meant the person had to pass a test, that you have a list of qualities you're looking for: tall, blonde, blue eyes, intelligent, irreverant sense of humor, must like bookish men, etc). Now that you have no criteria and only some nebulous basis for selection - that is, chemistry, you just come across as arbitrarily elitist. I'm disappointed in you INFP. I expected great things from you.
 

SecondBest

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I find that to be an interesting perspective. I've never considered being hurt by my imagination. I tend to get hurt by reality more than anything else (i.e. my own limitations, my life time on this planet, my inability to freely express myself, the fact that others don't care, the fact that I'm not really living the life I want - okay I'll stop because I'm getting depressed). It's the fantasy versus the harsh reality of existence. Nothing is seemingly as it is suppose to be yet if you practice mindfulness, everything is as it is suppose to be (?) I've been hurt so many times by reality that I prefer fantasy. Although I spend most of my time and thoughts in the real world.


I think it's the fusion of imagination and reality. Specifically, idealizing people and having my ideal crash and burn when I see them for who they really are. That's what's devastating to me.



Do you know? You INFPs are a little too diplomatic for my liking. I feel like I'm trying to read between the lines to get at the horrible truth you're trying to hide from me. *cringes* *lifts veil to cover eyes* Yeah, yeah, yeah -- I've gotta take the plunge. Being myself is the best approach. But you can see that I really don't want to know how he feels if I'm the one who has to illicit a response. Still -- I have to do something or I'll be waiting around forever or in regret of never having said or done anything.


LOL. There's no truth hiding in my end. Just trying to be as accurate and as helpful as possible with what I'm saying.



That sounds kinda random. When you said, "that is, IF I like them" (or something like that) I thought that meant the person had to pass a test, that you have a list of qualities you're looking for: tall, blonde, blue eyes, intelligent, irreverant sense of humor, must like bookish men, etc). Now that you have no criteria and only some nebulous basis for selection - that is, chemistry, you just come across as arbitrarily elitist. I'm disappointed in you INFP. I expected great things from you.

LOL. Fair enough. Though arbitrary elitist wouldn't be the phrase I'd use. How about romantically cautious? And what you call "nebulous basis for selection," I call "divine suggestion." Also, when I said "IF" it was a more a matter of stating the obvious because why would I go through the trouble of being slow and subtle and stuff if I don't even like the girl? There is no test. Just going with the flow, feeling the chemistry, and trusting my instincts.

Like my avatar, I'm just an Eeyore floating down the river.
 
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angell_m

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Have any of you INFPs (or other NFs) ever had an INSTENSE eye gazing experience? What was it like? Was the fact that it was intense, significant to you?
I did not / do not make a habbit of staring into people's eyes. I do not even like the thought of being rejected.

Do you think that if the eye gazing was intense for one, it was also significant for the other?
Propabilities, propabilities, propabilities. I'm not going to say yes or no. There are so many factors that must be taken into consideration.

What does eyegazing mean to you (INFPs)? Does it signify love, attraction, appreciation, longing? What is its specific meaning?
In my mind, if I stare into a girl's eyes, it means that I'm trying to be a douchebag who thinks he can pick up girls just by staring into their eyes. If I stare into guy's eyes, it means that I'm trying to be a macho man, picking fights. So I don't make a habbit of staring into people's eyes, because I don't like the possibility of it being misinterpretated.

Is it possible to fall in love with someone you don't really know?
Now you're talking my language. And I'll just go right ahead and say it; Yes. I'm exceptionally good at "falling," crashing, and burning.

Any advice about whether I should say something about the eye gazing or leave it alone?
If that was me, I would want clarity. I can't stand hints. And if he likes you, and you ask, he wouldn't like you any less for asking. But haha, if you ask him the wrong way, and he thinks you'll reject him, he's going to lie to you by saying "No, no, if I stared into your eyes it doesn't mean a thing. I wouldn't think about ruining our friendship," and then he would smile on the outside, while killing himself slowly on the inside.
 

SecondBest

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In my mind, if I stare into a girl's eyes, it means that I'm trying to be a douchebag who thinks he can pick up girls just by staring into their eyes. If I stare into guy's eyes, it means that I'm trying to be a macho man, picking fights. So I don't make a habbit of staring into people's eyes, because I don't like the possibility of it being misinterpretated.

Yeah I see what you mean there. I've seen people who look into other people's eyes the way you're talking about, but I guess it'll all depends on who's doing it and who they're doing it to.

I remember one guy who liked to use his eyes to communicate, someone I looked up to very much, but in the end, turned out to be someone very different than who I believed him to be. Once, he did it as a form of intimidation and defensiveness. Another time, I'm not sure what he was trying to say, but it creeped me out, so I turned away. So it's very much in how you do it, too, I think.
 

angell_m

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When I wrote that I wrote it was ment as "This is what staring into people's eyes would feel like if I did it," and "this is why I don't do it." I don't know if that came through or not. I used to have a different opinion about it in my earlier days but today I fear confrontation too much to look into someones eyes for more than two-three seconds.
 

SecondBest

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When I wrote that I wrote it was ment as "This is what staring into people's eyes would feel like if I did it," and "this is why I don't do it." I don't know if that came through or not. I used to have a different opinion about it in my earlier days but today I fear confrontation too much to look into someones eyes for more than two-three seconds.

Oops. I totally misread that. Sorry.

Yeah, actually, on thinking it through further, I agree with you on NOT doing it with people in general. I don't and haven't actually done it ever with the exception of my ex. It would only be something I'd do with someone I truly care about. And you're right, it almost always comes across as being confrontational or it's just plain awkward.
 

angell_m

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Yeah I feel like a total sleezeball if I stare.
 

JivinJeffJones

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It's like those animals hit by a stun gun - LOL. "I'm captured -- now what do I do? Nowhere to run. Nowhere to hide. "

ATTACK!

It's funny - last time I saw him, all I could think to say (but of course I didn't) was "kiss me you fool!" idk - I heard it in a movie somewhere. It sounds romantic to me. I don't suppose an INFP male would take that line very well.

Actually I think the average INFP male would be delighted to hear those words from a woman he's into.

Thank you JivinJeffJones. I've seen you around different forums. I'm glad you responded to this one. You always give such wise and practical advice.

Thanks. And you're welcome. Always happy to help out an INFP brother. ;) Though unless you're referring to different forums within this one then someone's been pinching my name! :steam:
 

mmhmm

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i'm uncomfortable with eye gazing
if i'm not hot for him i'll get frustrated
if i like him, then i'll probably make it
easier to stare. if it's not mutual, it's
bound to be uncomfortable, no?

i fall in lust with people i don't know...
all the time...not love though.
 
E

Epiphany

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I always look people in the eyes when I'm talking to them and prefer it if they look into mine when speaking to me. I think there is a difference between making eye contact and gazing into someone's eyes and I'm sure that both people can feel that difference. There is a moment when you're looking into someone's eyes who you're attracted to and that desire is understood deeper than words could explain.
 

Onceajoan

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Actually I think the average INFP male would be delighted to hear those words from a woman he's into.

Decided. Then I shall keep it in my arsenal to use when the need arises for its use. He does actually act like a fool sometimes (in an endearing way), although not intentionally. I just don't want to hurt his feeling, you know,, given infps known sensitive feelings. So it's nice to hear otherwise. Even though I probably won't choose to use those exact words.
 

Lady_X

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Decided. Then I shall keep it in my arsenal to use when the need arises for its use. He does actually act like a fool sometimes (in an endearing way), although not intentionally. I just don't want to hurt his feeling, you know,, given infps known sensitive feelings. So it's nice to hear otherwise. Even though I probably won't choose to use those exact words.

you could just kiss him...no reason to say anything is there?
 

Onceajoan

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I think it's the fusion of imagination and reality. Specifically, idealizing people and having my ideal crash and burn when I see them for who they really are. That's what's devastating to me.

That makes sense. Sounds tragic. I think that's one of the most challenging parts about human relationships is seeing someone for who they are rather than what we want them to be. I've done this a few times only to realize it much later. We all live in our own movie where we are the star. Hopefully we learn from our mistakes. With this guy Ive been thinking about "what I want from him" as an exercise in gaining clarity. I've had some problems lately and was wondering if I'm looking to him to be a knight in shining armour because I'm pretty vulnerable right now. I have concluded that I don't think so. My boundaries are strong enough for me to realize that I'm responsible for resolving my own problems and life dilemmas. Although, he has commented on the fact that I don't feel comfortable with the idea of others taking care of me. Idk- it felt weird coming from him - almost like he wants to take care of me. I'm probably reading too much into this statement. I just don't want him to feel he needs to rescue me or have me rescue him. My "Joan of Arc" days are over with (hence the inspiration for the name). I just want to be with him and spend time with him.

LOL. There's no truth hiding in my end. Just trying to be as accurate and as helpful as possible with what I'm saying.

You forgot to say accurate (and diplomatic) and helpful. That's more accurate.

LOL. Fair enough. Though arbitrary elitist wouldn't be the phrase I'd use.

Well that's because you don't tease others in the cruel manner I do. All INFPs are gentlemanly and cultured. But I'm afraid that suggests ean elitist attitude as well.

How about romantically cautious?

That sounds reasonable.

And what you call "nebulous basis for selection," I call "divine suggestion."

Hmmm. What is divine suggestion? I'm unfamiliar with the term and there seems to be no internet reference for it. Help me out.

Also, when I said "IF" it was a more a matter of stating the obvious because why would I go through the trouble of being slow and subtle and stuff if I don't even like the girl?

Yeah. Stating the obvious here. But the problem is when the girl of interest doesn't pick up on your subtlties and fools herself into believing its her imagination. Also, is slow and subtle always the right approach for an INFP to take? Could you live with yourself if you were slow and subtle only to lose the girl because she became bored or lost her interest out of frustration? Even though you thought she was the one, would you live without regrets because part was meant to be as part of the "slow and subtle" approach? Would she turn out to be not be the one (or ideal) because she lost interest or misunderstood you? Do you ever question where you adopt "slow and subtle" because it's safer rather than because of its effectiveness?

There is no test. Just going with the flow, feeling the chemistry, and trusting my instincts.

Okay. Maybe I am getting a little aggressive here - but I disagree. There's always a test. Not necessarily in a manipulative or calculated way. But I think people have wants (desires) and needs that are evident to themselves (sometimes unconsciously)and they look to others to fullfill some of these needs and desires. It may be argued that this is purely selfish. Love is suppose to be about giving of oneself freely without expectations of return. But I don't really think that happens much. When seeking a partner or lover, people generally look to find someone who fits their ideal. This is a test. If it wasn't a test no one would ever flunk. I agree about chemistry. Although it's hard to define, I think it means something for me too. In most any serious relationship, of course, there's a leap of faith because you can never really know a person, know you can truly trust them not to hurt you (you might think so, but not know). So you trust your instincts. So. I pretty much agree except for the "testing" part. I would even argue that INFPs test more than others because they're more idealistic and picky. Of course, I can't speak for you. I'm just responding to you as I think an INFP would behave. But I know it's not really fair to you. Please forgive me and don't take my comments too seriously since I'm talking on the fly and don't know what I'm talking about.

Is slow and subtle always the right approach? Could you live with yourself if you were slow and subtle only to lose the girl because she became bored or lost her interest. Even though you thought she was the one. Or would she not be the one because she lost interest?

Like my avatar, I'm just an Eeyore floating down the river.

I need to learn to float down river. I'm trying. But I keep flailing my arms or sinking.
 
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Onceajoan

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you could just kiss him...no reason to say anything is there?

yeah. That's what I'm starting to think - less is more. More romantic. More subtle - yet makes the point. It's just the approach I'm concerned about as well as his reaction to it since I don't think he handles surprises very well. I'd actually feel more comfortable if he kissed me.
 

JivinJeffJones

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yeah. That's what I'm starting to think - less is more. More romantic. More subtle - yet makes the point. It's just the approach I'm concerned about as well as his reaction to it since I don't think he handles surprises very well. I'd actually feel more comfortable if he kissed me.

If you got him out on a date of some kind you could do the doorstep-at-the-end-of-the-evening kiss. That will remove the surprise element since it's such a cliche. But cliches can ease people through tricky steps they wouldn't otherwise be sure how to navigate. Originality can come later.

Edit: I don't think the surprise factor is anything to worry about though, unless he isn't into you despite all evidence to the contrary. INFP. Surprise is good. Just kiss him. Overthinking is why it hasn't already happened imo.
 

angell_m

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You've known eachother for years, and he's not repulsed by you, obviously, so it's safe to say that you could even shove your hands down his pants. But, yeah, go for the kiss. You will get the same reaction anyway.
 

Eckhart

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Yeah, I would suggest to give it a try too. I know how I would act, and I probably could go on waiting for another year because of fear of being rejected if no one does a further step, hoping just for SUCH things :doh:
 

Onceajoan

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If you got him out on a date of some kind you could do the doorstep-at-the-end-of-the-evening kiss. That will remove the surprise element since it's such a cliche. But cliches can ease people through tricky steps they wouldn't otherwise be sure how to navigate. Originality can come later.

Edit: I don't think the surprise factor is anything to worry about though, unless he isn't into you despite all evidence to the contrary. INFP. Surprise is good. Just kiss him. Overthinking is why it hasn't already happened imo.

Yeah. I tend to analyze things a lot in mind head. I'm a bit like INFPs in that regard. I feel that this is a bit of the problem we're facing - we may be doing the same thing. We move quite quickly between thinking and feeling mode, It's hard to gauge where each is operating from (that is, their heart or their head). I feel that there's a strong desire to be with each other (physically and more deeply) but we're afraid of the approach and how the other will take it. We're a bit "too considerate" of each other.

I'll do something (kiss him) or say something spontaneous when the time is right. I don't feel I can plan it as much as I'd like to get it right. Mood and timing are the most important factors. We're already so comfortable in our environment, I don't think I want to take it somewhere else. In some ways it would be more meaningful as a culmination of the time we've spent together.

Thanks for the suggestions, JivinJeffJones. You give me more to think about (but maybe that's not a good thing in my case). ;) BTW: I love the picture especially because the B&W gives it a look of the past. It has almost a ghostly, other worldly presence to it - but very human simultaneouly. I'm a sucker for the mysterious :wubbie:
 
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