[MBTI General] People who unload on you and don't understand...

[SilkRoad]

I hope it goes well, SilkRoad.

I know the feeling of being someone's toxic waste dump. Recently I was having this problem where a friend was constantly dumping the same problems on me. She was a good friend, but what happens is when someone is in this kind of turmoil, I don't want to add to their stress by opening up about my problems. So the onesidedness begins. She, too, seemed to be resistant to changing her situation. It was only later that I found out part of the problem was that she was receiving conflicting messages. She was also confiding in someone who has a toxic personality and who, through her influence and counsel, was prolonging my friends problems. Now that person is out of the picture and things are much better, our friendship is in balance again and my friend has dealt with her problem and is very happy.

It is so hard. Sometimes people may be wanting us to open up to them, and they are trying to invite it by spilling their troubles. But sadly its true, people exist that just want what Cascade described, to use someone else solely to dump on. I knew a girl like this whose main activity was being in a fight with someone in our circle of friends so she could kvetch about them with supposed justification. After the target would capitulate she would choose a new target. Finally, I felt compelled to doorslam this person because I saw the writing on the wall and knew it was a matter of time. The pure ugliness of the whole situation was very hard for me to cope with.

I hope it doesn't sound like I think the answer to every problem is to cut someone from your life, that is far from the truth. I know hard it really is. I really hope that your friendships endure and improve.

Thanks. yes, sometimes there are also outside influences you don't really know about. I have also found that sometimes when people vent to you, they are telling you absolutely everything about certain aspects of their life or how they feel about something, but there's a whole other area they're keeping quite hidden from you which is actually very related. That just confuses everything even more.

I hope my friend takes what I've said to him ok. He might get mad because he can get quite immature when his feelings are hurt. I am bracing myself for that. Or he might just get very cold and withdrawn. I'm sort of hoping for the best that even if he first reacts really badly, or if there is some distancing between us, he goes away and thinks about it a bit when he calms down and we can be closer again when he has some things sorted out. I do know that he's the type of person who doesn't do much self-examination unless he has a shock or there is an immediate threat that he's going to lose something, like an important friendship. Although I did emphasize that I want to stay his friend and that's actually why I'm telling him all this, but I really wouldn't be that surprised if he takes it badly

I know there are all kinds of different friendships out there. You may have some friends who you spend more time having fun with, others who you have more intellectual discussions with, others who you discuss your emotions and problems with. A mix of all of those is by far the best and healthiest but most friendships will be more weighted in some direction or other.

But one thing I know about myself for sure, partly through painful experience and partly through studying personality and typology and the like, is that I have to be more assertive about my own needs, and to tell friends when they are trespassing on inappropriate areas, using me, etc. It is sometimes essential to talk to people, even if it's hard and painful, before all the resentment and damage buildings up and explodes.

 

[SilkRoad]

My friend just wrote back to me and said this:

"Well I really dont want to make it awkward or anything, but also dont want to put extra issues on your shoulder. I know i have things I need to work at...

I guess in a open friendship I thought it was about expressing ones thoughts and feelings, i guess not and I have not been the best with personal relationships.

So I guess we can call it here and see each other when we see each other..."

I feel sad I don't think he really understood and I think I have hurt his feelings or he feels like I have abandoned him. It's the second part that makes me think that. I don't know if I will write back or what I could say. I might see him socially this weekend with some other people, but it will probably be awkward.

It's so hard. I think this is someone who I am always guaranteed to have misunderstandings with.

 

[Vasilisa]

My friend just wrote back to me and said this:

It comes across slightly narcissistic to my mind. It does indeed sound like he is reacting from hurt and abandonment. Notice he doesn't acknowledge any of the pain you were carrying for him as a friend or any of the ways you offered to sustain the friendship. Its a pity that he cannot see that. I'm sorry, Silk. It sounds like you were a very good friend to him, if that is any comfort. What a shame he couldn't understand your message or feelings properly. He is probably going to feel your absence.

But one thing I know about myself for sure, partly through painful experience and partly through studying personality and typology and the like, is that I have to be more assertive about my own needs, and to tell friends when they are trespassing on inappropriate areas, using me, etc. It is sometimes essential to talk to people, even if it's hard and painful, before all the resentment and damage buildings up and explodes.

This is such vital wisdom. I relate to it very much. You did the right thing.

 

[SilkRoad]

It comes across slightly narcissistic to my mind. It does indeed sound like he is reacting from hurt and abandonment. Notice he doesn't acknowledge any of the pain you were carrying for him as a friend or any of the ways you offered to sustain the friendship. Its a pity that he cannot see that. I'm sorry, Silk. It sounds like you were a very good friend to him, if that is any comfort. What a shame he couldn't understand your message or feelings properly. He is probably going to feel your absence.

This is such vital wisdom. I relate to it very much. You did the right thing.

Thanks. I guess the door is not closed. I didn't want to doorslam him.

You make a good point about narcissism. He certainly has a very hard time seeing things outside of his own perspective and needs. It's all complicated by the fact that I had feelings for him for a long time. That part I never handled well, but I think I still tried to be a good friend to him. He has acknowledged that a few times, but almost everything is from his perspective. I don't know how he became such a self-centered person, it kind of freaks me out. It has often seemed to me that he has extremely well developed social graces (he's probably ESFP) and knows how to give the appearance of being someone who cares, reaches out to others. But it tends to be a facade. Being someone who really cares, and not just being someone who LOOKS like they care, is very hard for him, I think.

At least he acknowledges he has things to work on. Whether he does or not is another matter.

I hope he will be ok and that he will understand why I wanted to step back in certain respects. Honestly I feel sad for both him and me.

 

[mochajava]

SilkRoad, I think you should still reply to him or maybe talk to him in person? His response isn't very nuanced -- perhaps filling it in, or responding to those points would help? Just an idea. He says he's not been the past (sounds apologetic), wants to work at it, and thinks that friendships are about sharing thoughts/feelings. Maybe you can jump in and say, "we all ahve things to work on, I'm happy you want to fix it; I do too, because you mean a lot to me. And yes, please do share your thoughts and feelings, but just know that I have my problems too and even though I want to always listen, I can't, and I have to take care of my own things too." Or something like that?

 

[SilkRoad]

SilkRoad, I think you should still reply to him or maybe talk to him in person? His response isn't very nuanced -- perhaps filling it in, or responding to those points would help? Just an idea. He says he's not been the past (sounds apologetic), wants to work at it, and thinks that friendships are about sharing thoughts/feelings. Maybe you can jump in and say, "we all ahve things to work on, I'm happy you want to fix it; I do too, because you mean a lot to me. And yes, please do share your thoughts and feelings, but just know that I have my problems too and even though I want to always listen, I can't, and I have to take care of my own things too." Or something like that?

Thanks for that. I did reply as follows:

"I hope that things will work out well for you whatever you decide. I hope you will be happy. You have a lot of gifts and so much to offer. It's just that sometimes in our lives we have to step back and examine ourselves and work things out largely by ourselves...

I still consider you my friend and I hope you will still consider me yours."

I guess it sounds a bit distant, but I am just exhausted. I am not kidding when I say I feel like I have been having steamrollers going up and down across me. I feel drained. There is a long and complicated history to this friendship. I don't think I have ever had such a difficult friendship in my life in terms of the kind of work I have put in and the kind of emotional ups and downs there have been. I am by no means certain whether or not it has been worth it.

It's likely I will see him this weekend but I'm not sure. If I do it will be in a large group and I anticipate we might just have awkward small talk. It wouldn't be a good setting to get into a big discussion. And I just don't think I can right now.

With all this, even with a voice in my head shouting "just step back, you're just going to be exhausted and emotionally frustrated", I am quite intensely worried about him because he seems both low and confused. I'll probably leave it for a bit and check in with him down the line. I don't know.

EDIT: I've repeatedly tried to express a lot of affection and concern for him. I hope he picked up on some of that but it's really hard to tell. I tried to emphasize that so it didn't sound like I was walking away from the friendship.

Another thing...I start feeling so guilty when I have to distance myself. Even though I probably shouldn't...

 

[garbage]

Yeah, there may be a point where it's very difficult to make sure that you're understood and everything's clarified. You can caveat and caveat and caveat your words over and over again ("I didn't mean x; what I really meant was y. ... No, not w; I meant v."), but it gets exhausting if taken to an extreme or taken too far.

Hopefully it all works out, but just know that the exhaustion can be normal.

 

[mochajava]

Now can I caveat my thoughts?

You're exhausted - rest. You will do better with this whole exchange, deciding whether or not you want to be distance, etc. if you're rested. I can't think of a single reason you shouldn't rest, whether it's in terms of sleep or in terms of not exposing yourself to emotionally exhausting events.

I'm reading on another post that it's incredibly INFJ-ish to give advice. And - I am indeed guilty. So, FYI, I am open to hearing when to stop.

 

[You]

Ever tried using the Jedi Mind Trick?

 

[SilkRoad]

Now can I caveat my thoughts?

You're exhausted - rest. You will do better with this whole exchange, deciding whether or not you want to be distance, etc. if you're rested. I can't think of a single reason you shouldn't rest, whether it's in terms of sleep or in terms of not exposing yourself to emotionally exhausting events.

I'm reading on another post that it's incredibly INFJ-ish to give advice. And - I am indeed guilty. So, FYI, I am open to hearing when to stop.

Thanks, you're absolutely right. I have a lot on my plate at the moment - not just this, but also: I live in the UK and airports might close due to strike action at the end of the month, affecting my planned holiday; if the holiday does go ahead ok, I suffer from a fear of flying phobia so am not looking forward to flying; I'm moving in just over a week and am nowhere near ready; I lost my credit card at the beginning of the week and the bank always makes a hash of sending me new ones; I'm kind of behind at work; etc.

Additional emotional stress is not what I need. I do have to step right back for now. I have done all I could to reassure this person of my continued friendship, I guess for now it's up to him how he takes that.

Ever tried using the Jedi Mind Trick?

Damn, I wish that was an option. I always assumed it was fictional. Does it actually work?

 

[mmhmm]

after a while you learn to distinguish
who you want to console. it doesn't
have to be everybody.

most people's troubles are idiotic,
same shit, different day, repetitive
behaviors, can't waste energy
on that if they keep on doing it to
themselves. rather go buy shoes.

 

[skylights]

hi silkroad

It comes across slightly narcissistic to my mind. It does indeed sound like he is reacting from hurt and abandonment. Notice he doesn't acknowledge any of the pain you were carrying for him as a friend or any of the ways you offered to sustain the friendship. Its a pity that he cannot see that. I'm sorry, Silk. It sounds like you were a very good friend to him, if that is any comfort. What a shame he couldn't understand your message or feelings properly. He is probably going to feel your absence.

i felt very much the same when reading through this thread. it read as a (subconscious, of course) framing of himself as the victim, which is essentially a call for you to pay attention to him, without any recognition of your feelings or your own internal health. it's not fair to you because you've been offering of yourself generously the whole time. it may in fact be quite good for him for you to cut him off, now that he's gotten to this point. perhaps it will help for him to understand what he's missing - not in a cruel way, but in a genuine way. it sounds like he's leaning on you for support without acknowledging how much you are giving or trying to contribute back.

Additional emotional stress is not what I need. I do have to step right back for now. I have done all I could to reassure this person of my continued friendship, I guess for now it's up to him how he takes that.

i've actually been through a very similar situation lately. i would stay up late talking to a friend of mine who has been going through some emotional turbulence and what i thought was a period of finding herself - she started doing drugs, going home with random people, fell desperately in love with a guy she wouldn't tell, etc. she would talk about how she was unhappy and wanted to change... i would spend a lot of time thinking about her situations and working through the psychology of it with her, and we would talk about behavioral things she could do. and then she would text me saying she was drunk and making out with three guys. or message me saying she was hungover and needed help. it just got to the point where i was losing sleep to help her and carrying her emotional needs with me, but she kept returning to the same place again and again and then looking to me.

i recently told her that i really just can't talk about it with her anymore. she got upset and i felt pretty bad about it, and sometimes she still will try to discuss things with me. but at least i feel like i'm not being an enabler to her behavior, and we still are friends and talk about other stuff. plus i'm not emotionally or physically run down from it.

good luck with your situation too. it sounds to me like you did everything you could for him and at this point just need to take care of yourself.


ps -- jedi mind trick? i thought that was FeNi?

 

[deadgirlrunning]

I can't stand it when people constantly unload like you're their personal shrink or something! My cousin used to be like that; always telling me how depressed she was over and over and over again. She really didn't want to listen to a word I had to say and got annoyed with me for being happy! Now her life has improved and she's probably happier than me, but I still keep my distance. We were really close for the longest time, but I think our friendship has had a negative effect on me.

 

[SilkRoad]

i felt very much the same when reading through this thread. it read as a (subconscious, of course) framing of himself as the victim, which is essentially a call for you to pay attention to him, without any recognition of your feelings or your own internal health. it's not fair to you because you've been offering of yourself generously the whole time. it may in fact be quite good for him for you to cut him off, now that he's gotten to this point. perhaps it will help for him to understand what he's missing - not in a cruel way, but in a genuine way. it sounds like he's leaning on you for support without acknowledging how much you are giving or trying to contribute back.

...

i recently told her that i really just can't talk about it with her anymore. she got upset and i felt pretty bad about it, and sometimes she still will try to discuss things with me. but at least i feel like i'm not being an enabler to her behavior, and we still are friends and talk about other stuff. plus i'm not emotionally or physically run down from it.

good luck with your situation too. it sounds to me like you did everything you could for him and at this point just need to take care of yourself.

Thanks for your input, Skylights (and everyone). Yes, I pretty much agree with your assessment. I've often had the feeling that he unloads on me about things he feels guilty or uncertain about, but then it's almost like he feels refreshed and goes back to those behaviours. It's not fair on me and it's not helping him either - which is basically what I told him.

The sad thing is, when I first knew him I was attracted to him on both a friendship basis and potentially more because he seemed so confident and fun and funny - not the first qualities I would see in myself. I'm starting to think more and more that it's just a facade - I do think that's how a lot of people who don't know him well see him, and all they see of the confusion is that he seems a bit scattered or can't settle down or whatever. I actually do fear for him, it seems almost as though he may be depressed or something. On the other hand, it may just be that he's too self-centered and has too many options etc... I was somewhat heartened that he said "I have a lot to work on and I haven't been the best with personal relationships," but the thing about "I thought friendship was about sharing thoughts and feelings, I guess not", that kind of hurt me. Does he really think that because he unloads on me, that makes it a true friendship? It's a very childish and selfish perspective.

I hope he starts to sort himself out and stand on his own two feet. I do want to at least signal to him occasionally that I am still his friend. I am preparing to move in a week and am clearing out lots of stuff and found a few things he would really like, I think. I'm going to leave them with a mutual friend for him. Just a little gesture like that. I may leave it a while before I actively get in touch, though. I would like to think that even if we avoid re-hashing his problems and confusions, we'd still have a few things to talk about (as you mentioned with your friend above).

I think in general though I do have a fundamental problem with forming what seems to be a close relationship with someone because they open up to me and vent about their problems...then realising a bit too late that that's all the friendship/relationship is really about and they're kind of being a user and I'm kind of being an enabler. Maybe it's discerning where the pattern is going and what the friendship is based on? I could never become a person who cuts someone off when they start sharing about their hopes and fears. That IS an important part of friendship to me. On the other hand, I don't want friendships where I'm just a therapist.

 

[prplchknz]

kick them in the balls whenever they start complaining that way they'll associate pain when they bitch to you.

 

[SilkRoad]

kick them in the balls whenever they start complaining that way they'll associate pain when they bitch to you.

that seems like a rather un-INFP solution!!

 

[prplchknz]

that seems like a rather un-INFP solution!!

dude, all i know is it would probably work. might end the friendship, but i just know its better to be friendless than it is to have a friend who does nothing but bitch.or they might complain more, but just kick them again and harder

 

[SilkRoad]

dude, all i know is it would probably work. might end the friendship, but i just know its better to be friendless than it is to have a friend who does nothing but bitch.or they might complain more, but just kick them again and harder

Indeed ,it might work. I don't really see it happening though but I guess it could be a metaphor for tough love...another thing I'm not good at.

 

[prplchknz]

you just need to grow some balls. is all

 

[SilkRoad]

you just need to grow some balls. is all

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