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  1. #51
    Member Fenekk's Avatar
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    Ugh. It kind of bothers me that so many people are like this with me. It's not that I hate helping people - rather, I like it, and I can offer good advice. It's just... sometimes it really gets to be too much. And, I can talk to you about your problems; I can suggest things that you could do, but I can't fix them for you. What's worse is that INFPs seem to be really bad about coming to me for help. You'd think they wouldn't...

    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    It also gets pretty frustrating when someone comes to you with the same problem over and over again and don't even try to fix it. At some point, you've gotta say.. "You know what? I've said my piece. There's nothing more that I can say. Wake me up when things change."
    This. Actually, this is what the aforementioned INFPs do. -_- One of them is always talking to me about his relationship problems, which is awkward to begin with, and even more awkward because he is my brother's girlfriend's best friend... So his relationship problems are often directly related to my brother, because his best friend gets upset or something and takes it out on him, I suppose... I don't know how many times I've had to tell him not to beat himself up for something he didn't do.
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  2. #52
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I hope he starts to sort himself out and stand on his own two feet. I do want to at least signal to him occasionally that I am still his friend. I am preparing to move in a week and am clearing out lots of stuff and found a few things he would really like, I think. I'm going to leave them with a mutual friend for him. Just a little gesture like that. I may leave it a while before I actively get in touch, though. I would like to think that even if we avoid re-hashing his problems and confusions, we'd still have a few things to talk about (as you mentioned with your friend above).
    yeah, this sounds good. it's sweet of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onceajoan View Post
    This story was helpful when I read it a few years ago. I often pull it out my drawer and read it when I feel I'm being pulled into this kind of relationship. Maybe you'll find it helpful too.

    The Bridge - A Metaphor
    hey, that's pretty cool. the ending does seem a little harsh for me too but it makes sense metaphorically. thanks for sharing it.

  3. #53
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    while i wasn't quite as bad as your friend or others with whom i've had this problem (at least i really hope not...), i have been there and i have to say i feel it extends a bit beyond the realm of lacking personal responsibility. especially if you're depressed and spiraling downward it can be really hard to think clearly enough to make your own decisions, much less good ones, and it makes passing your decisions onto other who you perceive to be more capable/healthy a very tempting option. Being in a bad state of mind really does things to you, and i think in this kind of situation lacking personal responsibility can be one of those things.

    i think part of the problem i have with being direct when people do this to me is because this is how i experienced it myself; while it drags me down and wears me out emotionally, i can't help but project my understanding of being in their shoes onto them knowing that the only thing that's truly going to get them out of this is themselves. ime doing that all alone hard enough, realizing that i've dragged so many others with me along the way makes it even harder.
    Hm...I guess there are so many possible extremes and permutations with these types of situations. I totally hear you about the depressed/spiralling downwards thing. If it is really that bad and someone seems to be throwing you a lifeline, you could easily feel totally reliant on them. It could be the wrong approach but it could very easily happen and it's not so much that you're just refusing to be responsible, or whatever. It's a situation where you're actually not well.

    Both with the SP friend I've discussed and just in general, I've been thinking more about people who don't seem to be depressed...at least long-term...but who seem to be in unconscious patterns of using others as their sounding board or as some kind of unburdening/relief mechanism, but then they go back to all the bad choices and the things they never said they'd do.

    I know it can be so easy to see another person's situation clearly (or think you do) and not your own. But it just makes me want to say, don't you see what you're doing...would you just stop dumping ineffectually on me, stand up, be a man, take control of your own life, take the bad with the good, stop choosing to be miserable and to repeat the same old negative patterns which seem to be making you miserable...
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  4. #54
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    The simpliest answers are sometimes the best. Here's my take.

    - Most people really, really want to be understood.
    - People who are willing to understand you are rare.
    - People cling to those who understand them, because of this.

    Lots of these people don't seem to understand that this process comes to us like breathing comes to others. To them its something rare and magical. To an INFJ its just how people are.

    We're the ones baffled when others don't "get" it.

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  5. #55
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words of Ivory View Post
    The simpliest answers are sometimes the best. Here's my take.

    - Most people really, really want to be understood.
    - People who are willing to understand you are rare.
    - People cling to those who understand them, because of this.

    Lots of these people don't seem to understand that this process comes to us like breathing comes to others. To them its something rare and magical. To an INFJ its just how people are.

    We're the ones baffled when others don't "get" it.
    I wonder if I have given some people the impression that what I really, really want and love is for them to unload on me all day long. I may possibly have given some mixed messages in that regard - like, if they say "sorry if I'm being depressing" (though not everyone bothers to do that) and I say "it's perfectly fine, really happy to help, don't worry at all" etc.

    However, anyone who knows me halfway well - and if you're unloading on me, you should - should know that I also like going to gigs, having a drink, having a fun/interesting conversation etc. So even if I may have sent some mixed messages, I'm not sure it's really an excuse for them to think that all I want out of life is for people to dump on me all day. They're seeing what they want to see, I guess...
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  6. #56
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    I think you might be misjudging their perception, and not taking something into consideration.

    Obviously they know that you're not just an "unload" person. The reality is that they probably don't know anyone else capable of it, the part of the thinking process that they can't necessarily find in themselves. That means they become dependent on you to fulfill it.

    It's not that they're "seeing what they want to see", it's that you're probably one of the few people they know that have any ability to figure out this stuff for them. No matter their type, a person always wants answers and resolution.

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  7. #57
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words of Ivory View Post
    I think you might be misjudging their perception, and not taking something into consideration.

    Obviously they know that you're not just an "unload" person. The reality is that they probably don't know anyone else capable of it, the part of the thinking process that they can't necessarily find in themselves. That means they become dependent on you to fulfill it.

    It's not that they're "seeing what they want to see", it's that you're probably one of the few people they know that have any ability to figure out this stuff for them. No matter their type, a person always wants answers and resolution.
    Yes, I take your meaning. A lot of it is probably about miscommunication, especially if you're talking about an NF and an SP or whatever. I haven't been open enough about communicating that I'm getting overloaded and frustrated with their problems and the endless circles they seem to be going in. They haven't wondered, or at least asked, how I feel about being the go-to for this kind of thing.

    I hear you when you say "a person always wants answers and resolution." I certainly feel that way. But when a person does not seem to be helping themselves, and when they seem positively determined to remain in situations of uncertainty and unhappiness, when that could change if they were just willing to commit a little bit and stick with things that are a little bit difficult - what then? Do they really want answers and resolution, or as some others have suggested on this thread, do they just want enabling and hand-holding and justification for poor behaviour?

    I'm probably going in circles myself at this point - sorry
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  8. #58
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    INFJs are intricately interested in the emotions and feelings behind a situation and how to best deal with those emotions to find an eventual resolution.

    Other types? Not so much. You can't expect them to deal with and process the information you give them the same you do, frustrating as it may be.

    Honestly? No, they probably don't want answers. They just want to let out their frustration and feelings to someone who can actually understand them. You desire to see them conquer their problems is getting the better of you.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    They haven't wondered, or at least asked, how I feel about being the go-to for this kind of thing.
    You do this sort of thing so easily, with so little outward thought, that they're probably not even aware that there's a problem. INFJs often spend so much time immersed in other people's feelings and emotions that they end up forgetting to share their own.

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  9. #59
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words of Ivory View Post
    You desire to see them conquer their problems is getting the better of you.
    I guess maybe it is. Because, if I haven't already made it clear, the problem isn't so much that people unload on me. I do invite that, to a certain extent, or I consider it part of being a good friend.

    In the case of a few of my best friends and one in particular, we've unloaded a lot on each other over several years. And there have been times when it's frustrating or overwhelming or you feel like the other person isn't making progress - yes. But ultimately, both of us have benefited, and we have made steps and changes in our lives, and the unloading to each other has helped with that.

    So I guess it's those situations where someone keeps unloading, and then they don't act in harmony with what they say they're going to do...or they end up back at square one and don't seem to see any problem with that...yeah, that has caused me to burn out on the whole situation.
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  10. #60
    Ruler of the Stars Asterion's Avatar
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    I find it okay until they start crying. Then I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to do. Particularly if I don't know them well. I'm currently trying to learn how to avoid strange broken people, without hurting their feelings or feeling like an asshole. One trick I have been taught is to make one word responses only. Funnily enough it was an ISTJ who taught me that. But sadly that goes against who I am and I find myself greeting such people and talking to them anyway. I have a similar problem with people loving me, the affection is nice, but it's hard to let them know it will never be reciprocated. I have a lot to learn I think...
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