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  1. #21
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Interesting. I'm a fairly "active" listener when talking to people, but I think it has a different from an FJ doing the same thing. Still, I definitely agree it's a social skill that can be learned.

    I also find the advice thing to be interesting... what kind of interpersonal advice do you give? I think that INFPs often avoid direct advice (unless someone is doing something that really goes against their values) and spend more time trying to tease out the decision the other person has really already made (on some level). Often we end up telling people to listen to their feelings and values. I think that's why we are sometimes described as "harmonizing clarifiers" (even though that phrase makes me roll my eyes).

    Of course, it's different if giving advice about something technical and something outside the interpersonal/values realm. So what kind of advice do you end up giving?


    The sometimes being unaware of your emotional state is also interesting. For me, my emotional state is like a barometer or sensor that I use to orient myself throughout my day. When it changes, I'm usually aware of it and its additional feedback in a situation. Emotions often represent a whole series of subconscious value judgments; while they may not be correct, they usually aren't meaning-free. When I'm ill, I usually find it throws me off track, because I have to keep ascribing the exhausted/depressed to the right source... it's like my internal compass is out of whack.

    In what situations do you find yourself unaware of your emotional state? I do find if I'm around others it can be hard to know exactly how much your emotions are being affected by the emotional state of others.


    As far as the last item (more flexible internally, less externally)... I think the only way that's true for me is I'll often resist changing my mind in the moment because I want a chance to mull over new data by myself. Still, even though I'm reasonably laid back externally, I'm far more stubborn and judgmental than I come across.



    I could totally be off base on some of items, although I tried to draw mostly from what INFPs and INFJs have said about themselves (or one another). If other INFPs find themselves identifying with a lot of the INFJ items, then I need to update accordingly.

    Still, any list that includes external behaviors isn't going to work for everyone, since the types are about mental perspectives and preferences.
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernKross
    Yeah some of that INFJ stuff I relate to but I figure its because, like you, I'm a so/sp, which can seem a little like Fe at times. I think the difference is that INFJs genuinely feel a social connection when they are doing the sorts of things you mentioned, where for us (if you are like me) its more... feigned (?), perhaps... as an act of politeness. I totally do it for the sake of the other person because I know I don't react 'as I should' in conversation, which can seem rude.

    Plus, I'm very openly opinionated where other INFPs tend to hold back - so there some ways in which I also don't fit the mold.
    This may be it as Southern Kross mentioned, the SO difference. Seymour, reading your post, I relate a lot to that. I think when I read 'general traits' about INFPs, I don't relate because it is not specific/detailed enough. And in comparison, it makes us sound less desirable/efficient in the social sense compared to INFJs and it pokes at my SO instinct variant. I have a desire to be motivating, slightly aggressive and good at social interaction.

    As an SO, I am a bit of a mother hen. I get to know my group of friends extremely well and I am always looking out for them. I give them a lot of space to experience and learn on their own as that is what I do. I actually hate it when my Fe friends 'command' me to do something as if I don't know better. I am a huge believer in being autonomous and self-responsible and self-knowledgeable. I do see what you are saying now that I am thinking more about this. However, if one of my friends is doing something stupid, I will immediately try to help, even if it's not part of my strong values. Maybe it's just from experience and I foresee that it won't go well and she really does not need this.

    When they don't listen, I can get a little nasty, roll my eyes, be snarky about it for a little bit. But compared to my Fe friends, I am more accommodating and sensitive to their emotions unless I have a strong opinion. Then I can be mean/bordering on nasty when I have had enough. Then I get the surprised 'why are you so mean!' Well, I gave you all warnings way before more than once.

    So, yes, I agree about this advice giving difference. I just don't like the one-liner descriptions as it is vague and it allowed me too much room to imagine what you meant by it. Hahaha. That's what happened; ignore me. I hate it when INFPs are described as timid, wishy washy, ineffective, vague ...

    I think the detachment while interacting with people as the difference between NFP and NFJ is very true. Even when I give off a warm/sweet aura, I am slightly detached. I am sort of observing others as if from the other end of a glass wall, not a thick one but there is this separation. Whatever they say, if it's not interesting for my 'data', I don't bring it to the other side of the glass. It is irrelevant to me, it may be true to them in some way, but it has absolutely nothing to me so I keep it in a different batch than from information and emotions that I 'absorb'. Whereas Fe is totally in the moment with that person, without that glass and not threatened by the closeness of all the information.

    Because of my SO, I come across as very sweet, good and I get called Sweetie/Honey all the freaking time even by those who are under 10 years older. It is 50% sweet and 50% patronizing in my view. I do get snobby too. I smile and laugh a lot a lot.

  2. #22
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mochajava View Post
    Wait, what? I feel like I always get burned for giving too much sympathy... people mistake it for pity? The "do unto others" thing is so complicated when you put it through the MBTI lens.

    @sulfit - can you direct me to some forums abount INFJs and socializing/connecting that you mentioned?
    Here are links to Personality Cafe and INFJ specific forum:
    PersonalityCafe
    Infjs Forums
    I have also lurked a bit on ENTP and INTJ specific forums. If you use key words of arrogant and critical in respect to INFJs you will find a few threads addressing these issues. I was trying to find a thread for you posted by a woman who was trying to salvage a relationship with her friend (another Fe user) where the issue of bossiness was glaring, but I saw it two months ago and could not remember enough key words to locate it. I have read of 3 separate instances of younger INFJs being excluded from social groups for being too "arrogant". Here are a few threads that mention the coldness or bossy attitude:
    [INFJ] emotionally cold - PersonalityCafe
    [INFJ] are people overly critical of INFJs? - PersonalityCafe
    When/Why others hate the INFJ - PersonalityCafe

    It is not that INFJ don't feel sympathetic, some just don't vocalize it. They feel it but just don't openly talk about it. Instead they proceed to give instructions to others in a manner ranging from calm and neutral to rather agitated and pushy. Sometimes this leads people to think that they do not care and are not sympathetic.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Anamalech's Avatar
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    INFJ INFP

    Ni Fi
    Fe Ne
    Ti Si
    Se Te

    Difference? A shitload. They don't share any functions.

  4. #24
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    I just read up on these Fi/Fe, Ti/Te, Si/Se, Ni/Ne things, and now I feel more INFP than ever >.>
    But in the description on this board I'm Fi and Ti together, hardly Fe or Te. When I read it on wikipedia I got a different feel to it; Fi and Te it is.

  5. #25
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    This may be it as Southern Kross mentioned, the SO difference. Seymour, reading your post, I relate a lot to that. I think when I read 'general traits' about INFPs, I don't relate because it is not specific/detailed enough. And in comparison, it makes us sound less desirable/efficient in the social sense compared to INFJs and it pokes at my SO instinct variant. I have a desire to be motivating, slightly aggressive and good at social interaction.

    [...]
    So, yes, I agree about this advice giving difference. I just don't like the one-liner descriptions as it is vague and it allowed me too much room to imagine what you meant by it. Hahaha. That's what happened; ignore me. I hate it when INFPs are described as timid, wishy washy, ineffective, vague ...

    I think we can sometimes appear as all those things (timid, etc) but that's pretty much never all we are. Can be amused to see the shocked looks when one of us transform into either the immovable object or the passionate crusader suddenly.

    Sorry there was so little detail as to be misleading. Thanks a lot for responding and clarifying. I do think that's interesting about the SO instinctual variant likely being a factor. I do sometimes wish I had a little more of the social/group-oriented nature at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    It is not that INFJ don't feel sympathetic, some just don't vocalize it. They feel it but just don't openly talk about it. Instead they proceed to give instructions to others in a manner ranging from calm and neutral to rather agitated and pushy. Sometimes this leads people to think that they do not care and are not sympathetic.
    That's the impression I get, too. (Both them caring and coming across as harsher than they feel.) Maybe we should get them "I relentlessly nudge/critique/advise because I care" t-shirts or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by angell_m View Post
    I just read up on these Fi/Fe, Ti/Te, Si/Se, Ni/Ne things, and now I feel more INFP than ever >.>
    I definitely think the functions are what give the types their flavor (and define them, too, clearly). That's one issue I have with Kiersey—without the functions an INFP is just a disorganized/information-gathering/decision-avoidant INFJ. I think the functions help explain INFP vs INFJ quirks much better and also can help one be more prepared to the areas where there can be misunderstandings.

    I personally still do identify more with Ti than Te, but that may be a personal quirk/development-issue/blind-spot/whatever. Might be an effect of clashing with so many Te-doms during my childhood or something.

  6. #26
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Which type likes INTP's more? JK. Carry on.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  7. #27
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    ^ Speaking for myself I'd love to meet an INTP seriously. You guys sound like cool peeps.

    On the whole INFJ - INFP difference. I unfortunately can't say as I haven't met an INFJ before. Wait I take that back I think my Aunt is an INFJ from talking with her and stuff. I noticed INF (Our pillow talk into the night about all these events in the world etc. Career choices so on and so on. She really understood me in my quest for the "right" career. Sensed some Fe in her in regards to whenever I sought advice.

    Cool people .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  8. #28
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Sorry there was so little detail as to be misleading. Thanks a lot for responding and clarifying. I do think that's interesting about the SO instinctual variant likely being a factor. I do sometimes wish I had a little more of the social/group-oriented nature at times.
    Speaking for myself, SO doesn't make me any better at social interaction, it just makes me care more about what people think of me.

    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Which type likes INTP's more? JK. Carry on.
    I love INTP's almost to the point of fetishism. Why aren't there more of you guys?!?!

    Haha anyway. After reading the differences of INFP's and INFJ's I can see a LOT of differences. Holy crap! It's hard to believe personalities that are dominant in three of the same preferences can be so different from eachother!

    Very interesting...

  10. #30

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    Oooh... look at all those cute little emoticons over there on the posting screen...

    Sorry, this is only my second post ever. I had even forgotten my password.

    However, I'm delurking because this thread is really bugging me (even more than many others). You see...

    Over and over, it's mentioned how INFJ's give advice to an annoying degree. But I'm an INFJ, and I almost never do.

    One example. My daughter had a really difficult college decision to make this spring. She'd researched her two top options, researched the field she wanted to go into, visited both universities more than once, and even discussed the two possibilities with graduate schools to see what the long term holds. I listened to her, discussed all the options and aspects, drove her to the universities so she wouldn't be tired, etc. - just really tried to be there for her. The listening part is the most important one for me - for both of us, really.

    However, I didn't give her any advice until it came down to the wire. It's her choice. She knows herself best, knows what she loves, and what she'll react to. She knows all the practical details too. I'm not in her head; how can I give advice? Even the advice I did give was more of an "If... then..." scenario. She could take it or leave it.

    She got so much advice from NFPs, though (both E and I) - weekly, even daily from some relatives and people she knows from work - none of whom had listened to even a fraction of what I listened to. Some of them hadn't listened at all. She (an ISFJ) felt like they didn't respect her. :steam:

    I did mention to my INFP husband that she was getting really annoyed at all the advice - including his.

    When he and I discussed this (we're great at really long discussions), he said that NFPs are so aware of other people's emotions that they have to give advice in order to fix the other people so that the NFP can relax. Which means that, if you're a caring FJ on the receiving end of this, you have to pretend to be "fixed" so that the NFP can relax.

    Whereas, I feel like I used my J, not to give her advice, but to make myself give her the space to make her own decision in. Would my spring have been better if I had "cut short" her angst about her decision by giving her lots of advice? It was an angsty spring - for both of us.

    If I'd done that, the spring would have been "easier" in some sense, I suppose. As difficult as it was at times, and as much as I would have liked to wave a magic wand and make it easier for her, I wouldn't go back and do anything different. She needed to work through it herself. I learned so much about her from listening to the way she thought through it and her feelings about all sorts of issues involved. I think she felt cared for by the way I listened (at least I hope that came across!).

    No, it goes even further than that. I had a difficult time figuring out which would be best because I really understood everything going into her indecision. Those who came up with with easy answers was only looking at a few aspects of the decision - not at the whole of what she cared about and experienced.

    I almost never give advice, even when asked, because I feel that life is too complex for me to really be able to understand from my point of view. But INFJ's are supposed to easily (even annoyingly) give advice - so what type does that make me?!

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