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  1. #1
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Default Fi creates feelings?

    this theory(revelation?) came in mind when i was thinking about this empathy vs sympathy thing on Fe and Fi.

    this is just an idea so dont quote me on this. Fi creates feelings(by simulating them) based on external perceptions, while Fe reads feelings from external sources and reacts on them based on how he feels about them.

    I got this idea from that other idea of mine that when Fi empathizes it perceives the external world using Ne, like how people are acting and are they going on the normal behavioral patterns and if they arent, Fi would create a feeling that would create this kind of error in patterns. just like Ti would notice error in patterns on some objective things that require logic and try to find a reason for this kind of error.

    i have noticed that i do this kind of thing with my Fi also, but im not totally sure if its just Ti trying to figure out Fe or is it real(or pure) Fi that im using.

    what do you guys think?
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  2. #2
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I dont understand FiSe.

    Also, I dont think feeling functions create emotion as much as process it-both Fe and Fi. However that processing my include amplification or reduction of the emotive content or it may actually produce de novo emotive responses-like a secondary emotive wave-after analysis, once we understand the situation more fully.

    For myself NeFi feels like a giant mirror.

    For me I note that as I allow Fi to have access to external input-allow myself to become more emotional open to others-even slight glances at others will causes ripples of emotion as my Fi tries to map and mirror what it is being fed by Ne? This can be very disconcerting. Ne will be working in concert by connecting everything in front of me with other and to things in the past to complete the mirror map.

    I end up a giant stress/pain amplification device where all of that hurt blooms inside of me. Perceived and amplified by Ne, then mapped by Fi-to produce secondary emotions after that step I think.

    I would suggest part of Fi development is taking that mirrored content, initially defining it as painful or pleseant, then building long term FiSi rule sets based on what is "good"-not painful and "bad"-painful.

    So by the time adulthood is reached pain/not pain has become more gut feelings of wrongness/rightness. I think Ti does something very similar by mirroring external logic and mapping back to a TiSi stored database of known logical facts.

    Hmmmm....

    But that would mean that Fi starts with a blank slate, perceives an object/uprising emotion, then mirrors the object, then may create waves of secondary emotion.

    So Ti would start with a blank slate, perceive an object/idea/input data point, mirror it, and create a wave of secondary thoughts...

    (yeah this is Ne babble.....)

  3. #3
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I would say that Fi creates opinions as emotions are biological in nature.

  4. #4
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    thought...

    Fi and Ti are both inner constructs/patterns. Fi/Ti is both used and built. so it can appear like a mirror, because it both filters and incorporates, which leads to projection of that construct that has been modified to adapt to the newly incorporated information. does that make sense?

    and it's hard to work outside of one's own Fi/Ti, because that is what we depend on to filter information.

    i think there's a thin line between feeling/emotion too... i think Fi almost works in "perceptions"... they're like clouds of emotion/thought/gestalt...

    and in contrast, Fe and Te are the awareness and use of external constructs/patterns?

    where i get into trouble understanding is how an internal function (Ni/Si) is a Perceiving / information gathering function, while the external is Judging / prioritizing / decision-making. it's very obvious to me how Ne reads external information, filtered and decision made by Fi, then typically externalized using Te. but Ne doesn't gather information from inside me, does it? that must be part of Fi. but Fi isn't all internal feelings and thoughts... is it? i'm super confused

  5. #5
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Fi picks up on feelings from the unconscious, what it means to be a human and what is moral. These feelings amount to principles, and the individual Fi-dom interprets these broad feelings into something they can apply to themselves, and maybe the external world. There is basically a model of the world in the Fi-dom's mind, similar to the Ti-dom, but the nature of it is more idealistic and concerned with issues which are heavily subjective.

    As for empathy, as FiNe, I do not need to have any personal experience with a person's plight to understand what they feel to the degree that I can almost feel it myself. In many Fi discussion threads, the idea of extrapolating your own feeling to grasp something you've never felt is often mentioned. Basically, there is a metaphorical application of your own feeling, be it emotional or your feeling-principles. This process obviously involves Fi + Ne. I can't explain a SeFi viewpoint to you, nor a FeNi one (or whatever), but I can relate my own observations.

    From my observation, Fe understands how people feel, because it is very intune with a consensus, and it is easily adapted to its setting, which means a Fe-dom appears to almost absorb the other person's feeling as their own. I have a feeling Ni allows a shift in perspective when a Feeling seems foreign, so that they can also grasp that which they have no direct experience with (or something like that).

    With sensors, I notice they do best with situations in which they've had direct experience, which is why I think they have less of a reputation for being empaths, which the NFs often get tagged with. This does not mean they are not able to be empathetic. Rather, I find they take a more realistic view, which puts people's emotions in a proper light, where an NF can fall into the trap of over-empathizing & validating a feeling or emotion with an over-imaginative explanation, or getting so caught up in analyzing the meaning that no action is taken to comfort. SFs also may be better at catching details and putting two and two together from that, where NFs may rely too heavily on iNtuition and draw false conclusions. However, relying on experience (either your own or what has been related to you), has its limitations also, which is why both approaches have their strengths & flaws.

    If anyone jumps on me about this view, well, I think it's their own insecurity about what good qualities are .
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  6. #6
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    i think that i didnt explain my view properly, and i forgot to mention that i meant Fi working on other peoples feelings in empathic way. i meant like that with nfp the Ne would gather information by looking at patterns in peoples behavior(this might be quite unconscious tho) and Fi would kind of like work as some computer trying to simulate different kind of feelings that would match on the abnormalities on the patterns(like figuring out what kind of feeling would cause this kind of abnormality on these normal patterns) that Ne detects. And when it has figured out what kind of feeling would cause this type of change in patterns, it would decide that this simulated feeling(created inside of the Fi users head) is the right one, therefore thinking that the persons feels this particular way and this way being empathetic(kind of like mirroring the other persons feelings, but technically doing a different thing). and while simulating this emotion that the other person must be feeling. Fi user would feel this emotion that was simulated for the other person himself because the feeling would be coming from inside of him, unlike Fe user who would only see this emotion on another person.

    this whole simulating thing and trying out different emotions that fits on the abnormalities on patterns would be unconscious also and only the right answer would come to conscious. and naturally with better Fi you would get more accurate results on this simulation and with better Ne you would get more accurate perception giving the Fi better ground to work on this simulation
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #7
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    From my observation, Fe understands how people feel, because it is very intune with a consensus, and it is easily adapted to its setting, which means a Fe-dom appears to almost absorb the other person's feeling as their own. I have a feeling Ni allows a shift in perspective when a Feeling seems foreign, so that they can also grasp that which they have no direct experience with (or something like that).
    For me, this is EXACTLY what FeNi does. I have a bad tendency to make people think that we are completely on the same page because I have the ability to grasp other's values that I could care less about or may completely oppose my own. As a result, people mistake my understanding as mutual agreement on a given topic.

  8. #8
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    For me, this is EXACTLY what FeNi does. I have a bad tendency to make people think that we are completely on the same page because I have the ability to grasp other's values that may completely oppose my own. As a result, people mistake my understanding as mutual agreement on a given topic.
    I have had the same issue in the past. I can totally see where someone is coming from and why they would think that. I can be all "uh-huh... yeah... I can see that..." which all means "I understand" but can be misread as "I agree." I've learned to be more careful about how I give active feedback.

  9. #9
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I have had the same issue in the past. I can totally see where someone is coming from and why they would think that. I can be all "uh-huh... yeah... I can see that..." which all means "I understand" but can be misread as "I agree." I've learned to be more careful about how I give active feedback.
    How do you combat that?

  10. #10
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    How do you combat that?
    Just be more practical and stray more towards "I see where you are coming from" and "I can understand that." Even go so far to throw in "Well, I'm not sure personally, but I can see how X Y and Z can make sense..." or whatever. It's true it can take the person out of the moment a little (which isn't ideal) but it beats them assuming you agree with them 100% in the long run.

    For me, I think Fi leads to wanting to be in harmony with the other person. That's useful for understanding where someone else is coming from so it's not all bad. I just have to keep being honest and remind myself that passively misleading the other person is bad (or even allowing them to mislead themselves).

    The same dynamic holds true for romantic relationships. Took me a while to figure out how to avoid leading the other person on and that BOTH people had to be into the relationship for it to work.

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