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  1. #11
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i think that i didnt explain my view properly, and i forgot to mention that i meant Fi working on other peoples feelings in empathic way. i meant like that with nfp the Ne would gather information by looking at patterns in peoples behavior(this might be quite unconscious tho) and Fi would kind of like work as some computer trying to simulate different kind of feelings that would match on the abnormalities on the patterns(like figuring out what kind of feeling would cause this kind of abnormality on these normal patterns) that Ne detects. And when it has figured out what kind of feeling would cause this type of change in patterns, it would decide that this simulated feeling(created inside of the Fi users head) is the right one, therefore thinking that the persons feels this particular way and this way being empathetic(kind of like mirroring the other persons feelings, but technically doing a different thing). and while simulating this emotion that the other person must be feeling. Fi user would feel this emotion that was simulated for the other person himself because the feeling would be coming from inside of him, unlike Fe user who would only see this emotion on another person.

    this whole simulating thing and trying out different emotions that fits on the abnormalities on patterns would be unconscious also and only the right answer would come to conscious. and naturally with better Fi you would get more accurate results on this simulation and with better Ne you would get more accurate perception giving the Fi better ground to work on this simulation
    I agree with all of this. It is very preicse....but I think you are missing how important a role Si plays. Ne is connecting...and Fi forming a simulation,...but how is the simulation judged for accuracy? How do we know that the Ne connections have given us an accurate Fi simulation? Id suggest by looking in an FiSi library of historical instances, that is continually refined over time as we make more and more Fi models of our world.

    I think Fi and Ti are similar in that, only by using them, developing a historical Si dataset, can you trust the judgments/models/mirrors/principles they offer up.

  2. #12
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i meant like that with nfp the Ne would gather information by looking at patterns in peoples behavior(this might be quite unconscious tho) and Fi would kind of like work as some computer trying to simulate different kind of feelings that would match on the abnormalities on the patterns(like figuring out what kind of feeling would cause this kind of abnormality on these normal patterns) that Ne detects.
    all of what you wrote makes sense, INTP. i just wanted to point out this part in particular because i think it's what makes FNPs pretty good "lie detectors" - we're good at telling when someone's internal state is either not matching their external state or is just off in some way. i wonder if this is true for SFPs and NFJs too? i would think Se and Ni could potentially play similar roles, and Fe could pick up the same clues externally that Ne picks up or that Fi simulates internally.

    actually, i wonder if part of what happens is that Fi simulates something based off Ne that doesn't match up to Si (previous experience with this person or someone in a similar situation) or Ne (sometimes you get the feeling that contradictory patterns are coming in at once) - and that's what tips us off. either your body language isn't matching up with what you're trying to express or some pattern contradiction like that, or, even if you're pretty consistent, the way you're behaving now doesn't match how you or other people have in the past in similar situations. you shouldn't normally be sweaty and fidgety - the room is not hot - but you are. or you wouldn't normally be radiating frustration or fear, but you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Id suggest by looking in an FiSi library of historical instances, that is continually refined over time as we make more and more Fi models of our world.

    I think Fi and Ti are similar in that, only by using them, developing a historical Si dataset, can you trust the judgments/models/mirrors/principles they offer up.
    agreed as usual, i think you just live in my brain and are a step ahead of me

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