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  1. #61
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    @SS: Yes you are. We may strive not to be that 'petty' but it doesn't mean we succeed. That we don't fall prey occasionally to those immature feelings that make us act or feel a certain way, especially when we're fearing something and are not paying attention to how we're impacting others *becoz* of that fear. Even worse when we try to deny said fear is even present.

    It may be our aspiration to not fall prey to such emotions and yes, we are capable of rising above them, but that doesn't make us immune to them, which is why we need to be vigilant to be able to rise above them. Everyone can become distracted or consumed by fear though and that would cause us to just like anyone else become a victim of this behavior.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    The above characteristics show a LACK OF SELF-AWARENESS.

    Wait, just for myself...Let me get this right - Lack of self-awareness equals non-ENFpness...and also all this:

    EXTREME PETTINESS.

    SELFISHNESS TO THE POINT WHERE SHE WANTS TO BE THE BEST, THE FAVORITE, THE PRETTIEST, SHE WANTS TO BE THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE, SHE WANTS TO ATTRACT AND CONSUME ATTENTION AT THE COST OF BEING FLAGRANTLY RUDE, DISRESPECTFUL, IMMATURE, AND NASTY.
    I can be all those, and all the opposites too. I have a lot of faults. Definately strive to be better when I realize I'm failing at being the person I'd like to be, but I dont know in good faith I could say those weren't ENFP traits or much less.....

    Shit - I forgot my point. But yeah. You get it.

  3. #63
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    I dunno, SS...

    I mean, I can see how it's easy to stay sorta infatuated with an ISTP, especially if you have an awesome bond and get nostalgic about that. The fire that you share when you're together...and then the cold when there's a lull. It's the thing that would drive me crazy as well

    But I do think this is more a case of insecurity+ego than real infatuation. ISTPs tend to be good at seeing who's into them, ime. And if she's showing no signs to M then..I'd say there are none. However, I too have been in the situation where I've had to consciously deal with jealousy pangs even though I wasn't in love with the person. And that's *becoz* of that special connection they have, I'd say. I'd say, more than anything, she's afraid to lose her special place in M's heart. And this, I'd speculate, is due to the ISTP tendency to pull away, since they need a lot of space. Though we share that, they go even further in that, and truly live in the moment. If they're in a different mindset when they 'come back' then that in sync feeling we love so much is gone. It comes back, but you never know when. It's draining at times and it can breed insecurity. Add to that other competitors and you have a nervous ENFP trying to reestablish their bond with someone. Doesn't even have to be romantic imo, as long as there's some chemistry and a deep respect for one another, which they've clearly always had. I too had to consciously curb my confirmation mode in those cases, and *trust* nothing had changed becoz you wanna whipe out that insecurity.

    Anycase, that's just my two cents on this. Not enough info to really get a read on it, I'd say.
    Once again, I have some heavy duty experience regarding this, once an ISTP lets you in, respects you as a person, and then falls in love with you, that bond is damn near impossible to break.

    What I love(ed) so much about my ISTP was how much he loved *me*, how well we got along, I can't even tell you, to this day, he's the greatest friend I've ever had.

    He's a bit emotionally immature, though. :sad:

    Anyhow, when an ISTP loves you, there ain't no questioning it, s/he fucking LOVES YOU.

    And the best part of all is that they will only be with you if they can not only tolerate your presence, but thoroughly enjoy it.

    I courted him for three years, and he was always behind, and it was frustrating as hell, (we had an incredibly volatile relationship when we were young adults), but, when I left Boulder, he got some time to think, and when he thought about it, thought about me, the more he thought, the more he realized just how in love he was with me.

    Honestly, I've never been loved so purely, intensely, and authentically by anyone else before, he fell in love with me not for my looks, far fucking from, he fell in love with me for who I am, and he and I would do that whilst together, shoot the shit and discover things about life and each other.

    I digress.

    Even though he and I are not together anymore, (my decision, it's complicated), he still loves me, and he will always love me as I, too will always love him.

    He's got my back, and I got his.

    I dunno, nothing ever is going to change that.

    The ISTP needs his/her space they need to think, they need to be alone, and can be alone for astounding chunks of time, seriously, but when one finds a worthy mate, they find that being in this special person's company is pleasurable and preferable to being alone.

    Hahahahaa, my ISTP is pretty anti-social, if it's not business or school related and he's hanging out with you, he likes you, period.

    I guess my point is this, once that bond is built and *felt* by the ISTP it is never broken, the romance might go away, but that bond is eternal.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  4. #64
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    . (wow this kind of breakdown is really revealing about my own behavior. but all of this i'm talking about, in the moment, is completely and totally subconscious.)
    That sorta in the moment, revelation? I totally get that many times I post here. I think by posting we are actually sorting of thinking out loud, Te-ing the problem-which allows us to Ne connect back into our own history based on the problem in front of us. But yeah, it is like all of these ideas are crystallizing out of nowhere, totally on the fly, in the moment when I post sometimes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    ah common, most women care about looks to some extent.
    I am actually anti looks. Hysterically it really IS one of my Fi values. I get REALLY pissed if I am told I have to dress up or fix my hair or put on make-up. I think growing up I would watch my mom spend hours doing this and it really grated on me having to societal expectations by falsifying my appearance. I also saw men date her for how she looked NOT who she was-and use her accordingly then discard her. If she had been more plain, I think the types of men she attracted would have differed...perhaps men who would have appreciated her for her internal qualities rather than be overwhelmed by external beauty.

    So I decided never to wear makeup as I wanted to be the same person in the morning as I was when I went to bed, the night before. Sometimes I do like pretty things, and every now and then I like to wear little shiny things becuase I like how they sparkle, but mostly I am very neutral and wish I could wear uniforms. I am very uncomfortable being told I am attractive. In high school, I was voted the most attractive girl in my senior class of about 100 people. I was so angry as I wanted to be recognized for my intelligence, my hard work, my talents...a face is just an external shell I was born with. There is no value in it. It is nothing. If I could remold my external apperance to match my internal self...well I dont know what that would be...but it would be the real me.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I could just be oblivious but I don't see the love thing. I mean. She's one of my best friends. The romantic stuff ended two years ago. When I'm 70 I'm going to know where she lives and what she's doing. You know? I told her that. That she was that type of friend to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    yeah... i feel like the basic reasons i love(d) someone never really go away, even if the relationship isn't right... :blushing: and i tend to hang on to mental intimacy.
    I think enfps have an odd thing we do with those we care for. I think we store a mental version of them inside of us using FiSi. Kinda of an image we can reflect back upon and connect with-even if those relationships are not quite the same as they used to be....So even if things change....we still have that internal representation to hold onto. But maybe sometimes we mix up what is the current reality with the stored internal representation and our past nostolgia for brief moments, even when we understand what the reality of the situation is.

    If she is this close to you, that she most certainly loves you as a part of her, a very good friend, even if not being "in love" with her. But perhaps she is still "in love" a bit with that which was you a year or two ago. So it slips out now and then, even though she knows it is the current reality.

    (tehehehehe, my ISTP ex would be asking if I had just suffered a head injury after all of that ^^^)

  5. #65
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Orobas, I drank waaaaay too much coffee today, and hence can't seem to fall asleep, that plus I'm uber excited about my upcoming vacation!

    Anyhoo, I just briefly perused your post and this stuck out to me...

    a face is just an external shell I was born with. There is no value in it. It is nothing. If I could remold my external apperance to match my internal self...well I dont know what that would be...but it would be the real me.
    A face is so reflective of the inner self, especially the eyes.

    I look in the mirror and I see me, I look at photographs of me, and I see/remember what exactly I was feeling.

    So, I dunno, I think someone's face, especially in motion, tells a lot, and more often than not accurately radiates what's hidden within.



    So, I am puzzled by your statement, what exactly do you mean?

    Do you not think that your face reflects the inner you?

    Also, I'm such a hippie, generally, I hate getting all dolled up, it can be fun sometimes, like wearing a costume, but I prefer functionality and comfort, and when I care enough, I will wear clothes that express my personal style.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #66
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Thank you!!!!

    MDP, you erred in titling this thread ENFP possessiveness and jealousy with friendships

    Seriously.

    You and she had a romantic relationship, though it may seem/be platonic now, if this chick, is in fact an ENFP, she is VERY MUCH, a.) insecure and b.) still in love/infatuated with you.

    I have NEVER been jealous of anyone, EVER, I think jealousy and envy are disgusting behaviors.

    I will feel sorry for myself, I will go into my shell, and self-destruct, but I would and will NEVER WANT TO HURT ANYONE ELSE, EVER.

    FUCK, I even feel guilty when I'm depressed because this hurts the ones I love, but I can't help it. :sad:

    Also, I CANNOT STAND THOSE WHO INFECT THEIR MISERY ONTO OTHERS, YUCK, YUCK, YUCK, AND DESPICABLE!!!!

    I've NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER been jealous of my friends, nor have I ever been possessive of them.

    I believe that people should do what they want, I HATE FORCE, AND BEING FORCED, so I will never force you to do or be someone or something you're not, or you don't want to.

    I actually started a thread regarding jealousy, I do feel it, strictly in a romantic context, when I feel on shaky ground, that my love is not being reciprocated, that I am dating and loving an asshole, and this fear leads me to be jealous when he is attentive to other people/things, when in my ideal world he'd *want* to spend all his free time with me.

    Here is a caveat, though, and no, I am not getting on some moral high-horse, but those who know me well, understand that I am a "freak" in this regard, that being how little I compare myself to others, I don't get a sense of self worth by measuring myself against others, never have, never will, I get my sense of self-worth from within, of course I want validation, but only from those I love, respect and admire, but, shit, I like being me, as crazy as I am, I've never felt threatened by someone else, never, you do you, I do me.

    I've never understood, firsthand, this rampant tendency amongst human beings, (that being the impulse to constantly compare oneself to others, hierarchically, i.e. she's smarter than me, she has a better body than me, she has more money than me...) I observe it all the time, but I've never felt it firsthand, I dunno, the down-side to this is that I am very self-involved, I score incredibly high in intraspection, I have this almost 28 year relationship with myself, I've got my books, my journals, my thoughts, my art, my pictures, my memories, I dunno, I will help others, when they need and ask for my help, and I love to make others better, just overall, happier, more self-aware, anything at all I can do to contribute positively to their lives, this also gives me immense meaning, helping others.

    Historically, I have had, hmm, bad luck with close girlfriends, I only like to devote my attention to one person at a time, i.e. I prefer one on one human contact, and this has led to many of my friends hating each other and hating on each other, and vying for my time and attention.

    I hate being pulled.

    So, yeah, I've experienced the OPPOSITE of the OP, in that I've NEVER been possessive over anyone nor jealous.

    And, Pitseleh

    You bring up a good point, hahahahhaa, I tend to, hmm, have more rigid standards for whom I would deem to be real ENFPs, in fact, when I joined this site, I thought I never met another ENFP in my entire life, which actually might still be the case, but I know an ENFP when I see one, (on this site), but I am heavily biased, as in, when I took the MBTI, an came out as an ENFP, and read all the different profiles, I was in complete and utter shock, one of the most crazy experiences of my life, taking a 70 something questionnaire and being categorized as an ENFP and for the first time in my life, reading a description that described me to a T.

    I spent my entire life feeling like a freak, I'm also an enneagram 4w5, and reading these profiles regarding, fuck, who I was, and why I do what I do, and my faults, and what I love, and why I live my life, well, it was shocking in the best way possible.

    However, what people NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THIS:

    Very few people actually fully exemplify each of the 16 archetypes, which makes perfect sense, when I took the test, there were maybe 5 questions that I coulda answered either way, but the rest were ridiculously easy for me to answer, like duh, of course, you know?

    God, sorry, I'm twired so I am going all over the place.

    Yes, Fi is subjective, and internally derived, but I dunno, I am wary when one's Fi values are well, I'll just be honest, My "Fi" is my god, it's been with me my entire life, an inner voice, channeled to and through me, ego-less, quiet, whispering the Truth, even when I don't want to hear it, god dammit!!!



    I would be a saint if I always listened and acted in accordance with my Fi, my Fi is sooooo fucking pure, and it has never failed me, or others, ever, rather, I have failed it, I have ignored it, but it's still there, sadly I am one who is incapable of being delusional.

    Mayhaps that explains my predilection for depression, that combined with the fact that we live in a world where human beings can be so fucking awful, bleh.

    I don't want to go down that path, right now.

    So anyway...



    Is she a full blown lesbian?

    Ouch, you " quickly cut it off when she crossed a known boundary of mine."

    That would suck, and I know from experience because, back in the day, my ISTP broke my heart TWICE, but the time he really crushed it was when he quickly cut me out of his life, it was like going 100 to 0 in a day's time. Awful, it took me a full year and some change to get over that, I wallowed, gah, don't wanna engage in an Fi-Si loop, right now, wow, he really fucked me up, and guess what, it was his fucking fault, and he knew it, deep deep deep deep down inside he knew it, he was experiencing a horrible depression at the time, and I think he couldn't be with me because he couldn't even be, if that makes sense, so in retrospect, I don't even blame him, though it hurt like hell.






    *Slaps you across the fiz-ace and throws you into a cold shower, WAKE UP, MAN,

    Oy, ISTPs can be so dense regarding romantic affairs, it's cute, but annoying as hell.

    THIS CHICK LIKES YOU, A LOT, A WHOLE LOT.

    SHE WANTS YOU BACK.

    A LOT.

    A WHOLE LOT.

    SHE IS INFATUATED WITH YOU.



    LIKE, DUH!!!!
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Ladies and gentlemen, in case you haven't met, let me introduce you to Fi.

    SillySapienne, as an aside, I smiled when i read your post because your passion is so Fi. It was very beautiful with almost a childlike innocence to it.

    I also saw that it sometimes defines things so clearly as right/wrong and correct/incorrect that it sometimes can be a blunt tool.

    Nonetheless, I found it very moving.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  7. #67
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    A face is so reflective of the inner self, especially the eyes.

    I look in the mirror and I see me, I look at photographs of me, and I see/remember what exactly I was feeling.

    So, I dunno, I think someone's face, especially in motion, tells a lot, and more often than not accurately radiates what's hidden within.



    So, I am puzzled by your statement, what exactly do you mean?

    Do you not think that your face reflects the inner you?
    When I was very small I always would imagine myself in third person. I had long straight red hair, and big bright green eyes. I recall being about 7 when it occurred to me that my internal image was NOT me. It was so weird. I would look in the mirror and not recognize who I saw there.

    I am terribly unphotogenic. Typically I look a bit dazed or even emotionless-even drunk. I think I tend to keep my feelings very hidden, and fake smiles for pictures always end up looking a bit odd. I hate my own photos. i dont feel at all like the person in the photos and am often very taken by surprise by my own reflection.

    Bet in others, I agree very much that by the briefest of glances I can identify volumes of emotional information. To make eye contact with another for more than a few seconds can actually overwhelm me with emotional content, if I have relaxed my Te guard. But I think this is my own weirdness and not an enfp thing at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    @SS: Yes you are. We may strive not to be that 'petty' but it doesn't mean we succeed. That we don't fall prey occasionally to those immature feelings that make us act or feel a certain way, especially when we're fearing something and are not paying attention to how we're impacting others *becoz* of that fear. Even worse when we try to deny said fear is even present.

    It may be our aspiration to not fall prey to such emotions and yes, we are capable of rising above them, but that doesn't make us immune to them, which is why we need to be vigilant to be able to rise above them. Everyone can become distracted or consumed by fear though and that would cause us to just like anyone else become a victim of this behavior.
    SS do you ever feel these little bits peek out, but dismiss them? I most certainly do feel the *twinge*, then emotionally dismiss very quickly.

    To be honest, I use so much Te that I can map out exactly how to hurt someone else-I have done so in the past, when they hurt me greatly. But Fi is like a giant spider web, simplistic, and hard to define. It entraps me and will NOT let me hurt them. I can prepare a map-but Fi is like a invisible angel that wraps around me and says No...we will not go take that path. That path IS evil.

    It has always done so, even when very I was very small. When I get these little twinges of envy or possesivness-like satine mentions-it nudges back and makes me think about how my emotions/desires/negative energy will result in hurt for others. It forces contemplation.

    But maybe these twinges are shadow functions peeking out showing the more negative aspect as shadows have a tendency to do..... if so, if you have an exceptionally stonrg and well developed Fi, perhaps you quench them internally before they ever consciously emerge...? I dunno, just a guess...

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    I have NEVER been jealous of anyone, EVER, I think jealousy and envy are disgusting behaviors.

    I will feel sorry for myself, I will go into my shell, and self-destruct, but I would and will NEVER WANT TO HURT ANYONE ELSE, EVER.

    FUCK, I even feel guilty when I'm depressed because this hurts the ones I love, but I can't help it. :sad:

    Also, I CANNOT STAND THOSE WHO INFECT THEIR MISERY ONTO OTHERS, YUCK, YUCK, YUCK, AND DESPICABLE!!!!

    I've NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER been jealous of my friends, nor have I ever been possessive of them.

    I believe that people should do what they want, I HATE FORCE, AND BEING FORCED, so I will never force you to do or be someone or something you're not, or you don't want to.


    Very few people actually fully exemplify each of the 16 archetypes, which makes perfect sense, when I took the test, there were maybe 5 questions that I coulda answered either way, but the rest were ridiculously easy for me to answer, like duh, of course, you know?
    I am going to start an Fi thread suing your quote!!!

  8. #68
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    SS do you ever feel these little bits peek out, but dismiss them? I most certainly do feel the *twinge*, then emotionally dismiss very quickly.

    ...When I get these little twinges of envy or possesivness-like satine mentions-it nudges back and makes me think about how my emotions/desires/negative energy will result in hurt for others. It forces contemplation.

    But maybe these twinges are shadow functions peeking out showing the more negative aspect as shadows have a tendency to do..... if so, if you have an exceptionally strong and well developed Fi, perhaps you quench them internally before they ever consciously emerge...? I dunno, just a guess...
    Orobas and Satine have a good point about it's not that ENFPs don't experience Id emotions. It's just that my Fi kicks in and tells me it's wrong of me to feel that way and I cast these feelings aside.

    But, I also think that there is a certain detachment that comes with being an ENFP due to our dominant Ne. Sometimes I feel like I'm floating above the flotsam and jetsam of the human interactions around me...including my own. It's like I can see everything that everyone is doing, and understand their motivations for behaving in the way they do... And I can do this without getting personally emotionally involved. <-- I think this is Ne (supported by Fi which tends to focus on personal relationships) at it's finest, btw.

    So when I'm in full Ne mode, I can oftentimes detach from my Fi and stay focused on observing and taking in information. In this way, I can often quell undesirable Id feelings such as jealousy, before they surface.

    [This experience might be easy to confuse with Te, but I think they are very different. Ne is about soaking in information without value judgments. Te is about making decisions based on that information... and coming up with an action plan... bullet pointed and numbered, of course. ]

    So I would say that of course ENFPs are susceptible to the same human foibles to which we all are subject. But it's also true that they have a unique ability to not let these feelings drive their behavior...
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    But, I also think that there is a certain detachment that comes with being an ENFP due to our dominant Ne. Sometimes I feel like I'm floating above the flotsam and jetsam of the human interactions around me...including my own. It's like I can see everything that everyone is doing, and understand their motivations for behaving in the way they do... And I can do this without getting personally emotionally involved. <-- I think this is Ne (supported by Fi which tends to focus on personal relationships) at it's finest, btw.

    So when I'm in full Ne mode, I can oftentimes detach from my Fi and stay focused on observing and taking in information. In this way, I can often quell undesirable Id feelings such as jealousy, before they surface.
    yeah, this is a great description...but this ability to see every perspective..for me it makes it very hard to externalize my Fi judgments onto other people. I very strongly know what is right and wrong for me, but I can almost always see why and what leads people to do what they do...thus I cant help but not pass judgment on them with Fi. It is almost like one of my Fi values is something like "It isnt my place to judge others, as I dont know their story" ? But yeah, I dunno...

  10. #70
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    When my braincells start to work again, I will add more to this thread, in particular replying to satine, esoteric wench and orobas.



    this thread, for selfish reasons, is money.



    as in, a lot of insightful commentary regarding Fi.

    must

    sl
    e

    ep
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

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