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  1. #51
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I'm with SillySapienne on this one. Sounds like ESFP or another type. I have had my own share of self-esteem issues over the years, but NEVER EVER NEVER have I been jealous of my friends (or boyfriends for that matter). This does not sound ENFP at all.

    I think SillySapienne hit the nail on the head about the Fi being in play here. Auxiliary Fi mean that I get great / sincere enjoyment when watching those around me experience happiness and success. Furthermore, it would tell me that not being happy for my friends is morally wrong.

    Bad tests, poorly thought out answers, etc. can cause skewing on test results. I'd step back and observe my friend to see if I could deduce what type she is... then if I felt sure she was really an ENFP, I'd give her a figurative whack on the back of the head. Her feelings might get hurt, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sounds like she's being a self-centered insecure person... and NOT a very good friend to you. Sometimes we need to get "whacked on the back of the head" by a friend to realize our own idiocy.
    Thank you!!!!

    MDP, you erred in titling this thread ENFP possessiveness and jealousy with friendships

    Seriously.

    You and she had a romantic relationship, though it may seem/be platonic now, if this chick, is in fact an ENFP, she is VERY MUCH, a.) insecure and b.) still in love/infatuated with you.

    I have NEVER been jealous of anyone, EVER, I think jealousy and envy are disgusting behaviors.

    I will feel sorry for myself, I will go into my shell, and self-destruct, but I would and will NEVER WANT TO HURT ANYONE ELSE, EVER.

    FUCK, I even feel guilty when I'm depressed because this hurts the ones I love, but I can't help it. :sad:

    Also, I CANNOT STAND THOSE WHO INFECT THEIR MISERY ONTO OTHERS, YUCK, YUCK, YUCK, AND DESPICABLE!!!!

    I've NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER been jealous of my friends, nor have I ever been possessive of them.

    I believe that people should do what they want, I HATE FORCE, AND BEING FORCED, so I will never force you to do or be someone or something you're not, or you don't want to.

    I actually started a thread regarding jealousy, I do feel it, strictly in a romantic context, when I feel on shaky ground, that my love is not being reciprocated, that I am dating and loving an asshole, and this fear leads me to be jealous when he is attentive to other people/things, when in my ideal world he'd *want* to spend all his free time with me.

    Here is a caveat, though, and no, I am not getting on some moral high-horse, but those who know me well, understand that I am a "freak" in this regard, that being how little I compare myself to others, I don't get a sense of self worth by measuring myself against others, never have, never will, I get my sense of self-worth from within, of course I want validation, but only from those I love, respect and admire, but, shit, I like being me, as crazy as I am, I've never felt threatened by someone else, never, you do you, I do me.

    I've never understood, firsthand, this rampant tendency amongst human beings, (that being the impulse to constantly compare oneself to others, hierarchically, i.e. she's smarter than me, she has a better body than me, she has more money than me...) I observe it all the time, but I've never felt it firsthand, I dunno, the down-side to this is that I am very self-involved, I score incredibly high in intraspection, I have this almost 28 year relationship with myself, I've got my books, my journals, my thoughts, my art, my pictures, my memories, I dunno, I will help others, when they need and ask for my help, and I love to make others better, just overall, happier, more self-aware, anything at all I can do to contribute positively to their lives, this also gives me immense meaning, helping others.

    Historically, I have had, hmm, bad luck with close girlfriends, I only like to devote my attention to one person at a time, i.e. I prefer one on one human contact, and this has led to many of my friends hating each other and hating on each other, and vying for my time and attention.

    I hate being pulled.

    So, yeah, I've experienced the OPPOSITE of the OP, in that I've NEVER been possessive over anyone nor jealous.

    And, Pitseleh

    You bring up a good point, hahahahhaa, I tend to, hmm, have more rigid standards for whom I would deem to be real ENFPs, in fact, when I joined this site, I thought I never met another ENFP in my entire life, which actually might still be the case, but I know an ENFP when I see one, (on this site), but I am heavily biased, as in, when I took the MBTI, an came out as an ENFP, and read all the different profiles, I was in complete and utter shock, one of the most crazy experiences of my life, taking a 70 something questionnaire and being categorized as an ENFP and for the first time in my life, reading a description that described me to a T.

    I spent my entire life feeling like a freak, I'm also an enneagram 4w5, and reading these profiles regarding, fuck, who I was, and why I do what I do, and my faults, and what I love, and why I live my life, well, it was shocking in the best way possible.

    However, what people NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THIS:

    Very few people actually fully exemplify each of the 16 archetypes, which makes perfect sense, when I took the test, there were maybe 5 questions that I coulda answered either way, but the rest were ridiculously easy for me to answer, like duh, of course, you know?

    God, sorry, I'm twired so I am going all over the place.

    Yes, Fi is subjective, and internally derived, but I dunno, I am wary when one's Fi values are well, I'll just be honest, My "Fi" is my god, it's been with me my entire life, an inner voice, channeled to and through me, ego-less, quiet, whispering the Truth, even when I don't want to hear it, god dammit!!!



    I would be a saint if I always listened and acted in accordance with my Fi, my Fi is sooooo fucking pure, and it has never failed me, or others, ever, rather, I have failed it, I have ignored it, but it's still there, sadly I am one who is incapable of being delusional.

    Mayhaps that explains my predilection for depression, that combined with the fact that we live in a world where human beings can be so fucking awful, bleh.

    I don't want to go down that path, right now.

    So anyway...


    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    She is the only woman I've been with. I prefer men.

    It was an experience that felt natural so I went with it but I quickly cut it off when she crossed a known boundary of mine.



    So once a lover of an ENFP always a lover to an ENFP?
    Is she a full blown lesbian?

    Ouch, you " quickly cut it off when she crossed a known boundary of mine."

    That would suck, and I know from experience because, back in the day, my ISTP broke my heart TWICE, but the time he really crushed it was when he quickly cut me out of his life, it was like going 100 to 0 in a day's time. Awful, it took me a full year and some change to get over that, I wallowed, gah, don't wanna engage in an Fi-Si loop, right now, wow, he really fucked me up, and guess what, it was his fucking fault, and he knew it, deep deep deep deep down inside he knew it, he was experiencing a horrible depression at the time, and I think he couldn't be with me because he couldn't even be, if that makes sense, so in retrospect, I don't even blame him, though it hurt like hell.




    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I don't think she was. We didn't know each other that well when we dated and she was dating someone else also at the time.

    She confuses me whenever she talks about when we dated. I ended it for very specific reasons which her actions caused. But then later she says it could have worked if I liked girls as much as guys.

    She recently told me she thinks I have the most sex appeal of anyone she knows. She doesn't know why she's so attracted to me but she feels a "pull" towards me.

    I take this stuff with a grain of salt. Her emotions seem to switch so often. I can never fully trust them. Sometimes I wonder if we live the same reality.
    ENTJ friend says that she only does this with me.
    *Slaps you across the fiz-ace and throws you into a cold shower, WAKE UP, MAN,

    Oy, ISTPs can be so dense regarding romantic affairs, it's cute, but annoying as hell.

    THIS CHICK LIKES YOU, A LOT, A WHOLE LOT.

    SHE WANTS YOU BACK.

    A LOT.

    A WHOLE LOT.

    SHE IS INFATUATED WITH YOU.



    LIKE, DUH!!!!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  2. #52
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I dunno, SS...

    I mean, I can see how it's easy to stay sorta infatuated with an ISTP, especially if you have an awesome bond and get nostalgic about that. The fire that you share when you're together...and then the cold when there's a lull. It's the thing that would drive me crazy as well

    But I do think this is more a case of insecurity+ego than real infatuation. ISTPs tend to be good at seeing who's into them, ime. And if she's showing no signs to M then..I'd say there are none. However, I too have been in the situation where I've had to consciously deal with jealousy pangs even though I wasn't in love with the person. And that's *becoz* of that special connection they have, I'd say. I'd say, more than anything, she's afraid to lose her special place in M's heart. And this, I'd speculate, is due to the ISTP tendency to pull away, since they need a lot of space. Though we share that, they go even further in that, and truly live in the moment. If they're in a different mindset when they 'come back' then that in sync feeling we love so much is gone. It comes back, but you never know when. It's draining at times and it can breed insecurity. Add to that other competitors and you have a nervous ENFP trying to reestablish their bond with someone. Doesn't even have to be romantic imo, as long as there's some chemistry and a deep respect for one another, which they've clearly always had. I too had to consciously curb my confirmation mode in those cases, and *trust* nothing had changed becoz you wanna whipe out that insecurity.

    Anycase, that's just my two cents on this. Not enough info to really get a read on it, I'd say.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #53
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    I don't understand her jealousy if she's not in love with you.

    However, she may get jealous when you get more attention out of insecurity. You said she used to be a model - it's possible that her self-esteem weighs much too heavily upon her looks, and without feeling like she's strikingly beautiful - even to the point of wanting to outshine other people - she has no self-esteem about herself otherwise? That's an issue that probably has nothing to do with being ENFP.

    I get jealous. Not necessarily of my friends though. More so in romantic entanglements, in relationships, with crushes, etc.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    One of my closest friends is an ENFP. There is a side of her behavior that puzzles me.

    This ENFP is very beautiful. She was a model for a top agency at one point in her life. She certainly gets a lot of attention. She always has an orbit of admirers around.

    On certain occasions where I'm getting more attention than her (it doesn't happen often) she becomes either withdrawn or possessive. My ENTJ friend even noticed this and asked me about it. It's something that I noticed myself but never said anything about.

    Some examples: I never get dressed up or wear makeup that much. People don't recognize me when I do. On my birthday, I decided to pretty it up and sure enough got a lot of attention. ENFP was complimentary toward me then kept mentioning that she thought she didn't look good enough that night.

    Another time, we were both at a bar watching live music at a table when this woman approached and started hitting on me. ENFP reaches over and lays her hand on my thigh in front of the woman. When the woman leaves she goes back to 'normal'

    When she first met my ENTJ friend, she actually physically pushed the ENTJ away from me when we were at a club dancing. We were all drinking but I was shocked that she would do that.

    Me and ENFP dated very briefly about two years ago and streamlined into a close friendship. I know ENFP doesn't like me in that way so I can't understand her behavior.
    1.) Don't think the type has anything to do with this. Possessiveness and jealousy hits everyone.
    2.) Perhaps a little bit more than just a friendship between you two, or at least that's how she might feel, hmm?
    3.) I would suck up and feel "defeated" (it's not the right word, but you get the general idea), at least this girl knows how to express herself. I consider that a strength in her, not a weakness.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I'm with SillySapienne on this one. Sounds like ESFP or another type. I have had my own share of self-esteem issues over the years, but NEVER EVER NEVER have I been jealous of my friends (or boyfriends for that matter). This does not sound ENFP at all.

    I think SillySapienne hit the nail on the head about the Fi being in play here. Auxiliary Fi mean that I get great / sincere enjoyment when watching those around me experience happiness and success. Furthermore, it would tell me that not being happy for my friends is morally wrong.

    Bad tests, poorly thought out answers, etc. can cause skewing on test results. I'd step back and observe my friend to see if I could deduce what type she is... then if I felt sure she was really an ENFP, I'd give her a figurative whack on the back of the head. Her feelings might get hurt, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sounds like she's being a self-centered insecure person... and NOT a very good friend to you. Sometimes we need to get "whacked on the back of the head" by a friend to realize our own idiocy.

    No offense guys, but this kind of thing is a bit ridiculous - saying that she's got to be an ESFP because she's a jealous person. ESFPs have auxillary Fi just like ENFPs too. Fi doesn't give one immunity from jealousy.

    What your Fi tells you may not be what my Fi tells me. For example, I've noticed that what Aleksei's and Sytpg's Fi says seems extremely different than mine on many issues. I've also noticed that this kind of thing that you and SS are insisting - that someone can't be an ENFP because they're jealous, or because they don't like making lists about their perfect man - irritates the hell out of my Fi.

    Just as the nuances of Fe can differ from culture to culture, even from family to family, the nuances of Fi can differ slightly from person to person. All it guarantees are strongly held ethics about SOMETHING, which we derive from our strength in intrapersonal intelligence i.e. self-analysis and empathy. It also makes us fairly passionate and have a driving need for authenticity and individuality.

    There's no law in the rule book that says Fi doesn't get jealous or possessive. Any person can have issues, and it seems to me like this woman has issues based upon her former career as a model, which has made her self-esteem far too dependent upon her looks...which is sad.

  6. #56
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I've also noticed that this kind of thing that you and SS are insisting - that someone can't be an ENFP because they're jealous, or because they don't like making lists about their perfect man - irritates the hell out of my Fi.
    Um, I made a thread about my perfect man, my ideal man, we're idealists, so I iz confuzid by your accusations.

    Also, I admitted that I experience romantic jealousy.

    So, um, yeah...

    *scratches head*

    All it guarantees are strongly held ethics about SOMETHING, which we derive from our strength in intrapersonal intelligence i.e. self-analysis and empathy. It also makes us fairly passionate and have a driving need for authenticity and individuality.
    Please show me where this chick's actions lead us to believe that she is self-aware, empathetic, authentic and individualistic.

    Gah, I will find you posts of MDP's that infer that this chick has got major problems that don't seem to correlate with common ENFP problems.

    Also, I didn't say she was an ESFP, not at all, I said mayhaps she could be, because she seems so attached to her physical appearance.

    My first guess/intuition was that she was an EFJ, to be completely honest.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Um, I made a thread about my perfect man, my ideal man, we're idealists, so I iz confuzid by your accusations.

    Also, I admitted that I experience romantic jealousy.

    So, um, yeah...

    *scratches head*
    Well, I initially replied to Esoteric Wench's post, but you both were suggesting this woman was not ENFP because of her jealous behavior - that is the only point in which my reply involved you, and it was because EWs post was in response to your original posts...and in my reply I also brought up the "deal breaker" lists, because EW presumed there that PrplChknz and I were SFPs rather than NFPs because we thought the deal breaker lists were excesssive and unrealistic.

    Please show me where this chick's actions lead us to believe that she is self-aware, empathetic, authentic and individualistic.

    Gah, I will find you posts of MDP's that infer that this chick has got major problems that don't seem to correlate with common ENFP problems.
    All I know is that she has some problems which I am not sure would disqualify her from being an ENFP.

    Also, I didn't say she was an ESFP, not at all, I said mayhaps she could be, because she seems so attached to her physical appearance.
    EW said ESFP.

    My first guess/intuition was that she was an EFJ, to be completely honest.
    Well, MDP keeps insisting she's ENFP...

  8. #58
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    I'm not a chick.

    I don't get jealousy - but I suck at relationships, so folks can have problems no matter what they are (MBTI) wise or not. Jealousy, though? I've seen it in all sorts of different people. Folks you wouldn't expect it to have...So, that's the way it goes.

  9. #59
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    One of my closest friends is an ENFP. There is a side of her behavior that puzzles me.

    This ENFP is very beautiful. She was a model for a top agency at one point in her life. She certainly gets a lot of attention. She always has an orbit of admirers around.

    On certain occasions where I'm getting more attention than her (it doesn't happen often) she becomes either withdrawn or possessive.
    My ENTJ friend even noticed this and asked me about it. It's something that I noticed myself but never said anything about.

    Some examples: I never get dressed up or wear makeup that much. People don't recognize me when I do. On my birthday, I decided to pretty it up and sure enough got a lot of attention. ENFP was complimentary toward me then kept mentioning that she thought she didn't look good enough that night.

    Another time, we were both at a bar watching live music at a table when this woman approached and started hitting on me. ENFP reaches over and lays her hand on my thigh in front of the woman. When the woman leaves she goes back to 'normal'

    When she first met my ENTJ friend, she actually physically pushed the ENTJ away from me when we were at a club dancing. We were all drinking but I was shocked that she would do that.

    Me and ENFP dated very briefly about two years ago and streamlined into a close friendship. I know ENFP doesn't like me in that way so I can't understand her behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post

    I know if I mentioned anything to her about it her feelings would be hurt and she wouldn't see that she does this.
    The above characteristics show a LACK OF SELF-AWARENESS.

    EXTREME PETTINESS.

    SELFISHNESS TO THE POINT WHERE SHE WANTS TO BE THE BEST, THE FAVORITE, THE PRETTIEST, SHE WANTS TO BE THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE, SHE WANTS TO ATTRACT AND CONSUME ATTENTION AT THE COST OF BEING FLAGRANTLY RUDE, DISRESPECTFUL, IMMATURE, AND NASTY.

    Marm,

    Do you honestly NOT see how this is very un-Fi like!?!?!?

    You yourself laid out a general template that all Fi users share, and I fully agree with you, and this chick seems to lack those definitive qualities that resonate within Fi users.

    Am I wrong, here?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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  10. #60
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    I dunno, SS...

    I mean, I can see how it's easy to stay sorta infatuated with an ISTP, especially if you have an awesome bond and get nostalgic about that. The fire that you share when you're together...and then the cold when there's a lull. It's the thing that would drive me crazy as well

    But I do think this is more a case of insecurity+ego than real infatuation.
    I dont think I've ever met an ISTP but considering that combination of functions they would be pretty easy going individuals not given to social anxieties or other anxieties too much I dont think.

    So they could have really strong self-definitions and not much need for validation from others, as a result that can be a pretty charismatic, magnaminous and attractive sort of person. I've known people like that and their company can be pretty addictive and hard to compensate for if its gone. It's an "effect" which marketing men and celebs try to create for themselves or their brands and products to make sure people keep coming back for more.

    The second bit, I'm not sure if how you label it is important, I mean would infatuation play out the same as insecurity and ego? Would it look the same to an onlooker? Is it experienced the same way? Then it might as well be the same thing or the label is unimportant.

    I've got to say that I've experienced from time to time jealousy of people who to all appearences have their own style, following and a pronounced "character", mainly when I was younger and I think I've matured and moved through that whole identity phase, although it still can happen or more often I experience other people experiencing it in relation to myself or others.

    To give a work example I've known people in organisations who worked in the same rank, they where colleagues but not equals, not in terms of talent or motivation, an opportunity for promotion comes up and two people go for it, for one of them its life and death stuff, they couldnt bare to be subordinate to the other and dont necessarily like being subordinate to the people they are already but the other doesnt care so much. The other guy is the more talented on really. Doesnt get the promotion. Life goes on but the guy who gets the job, the senior, is not aggrieved that despite the promotion they dont feel any "better" than the other person or dont feel "better" enough. It can be simple things like command of language or ease of interaction.

    That example I think reflects a wider thing about social dynamics in groups, people who are friends play out similar dilemmas in their heads when peoples popularity or focus changes and I think its pretty understandable.

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