[ENFJ] Common ENFJ Issues

[nynesneg]

Do you guys experience Dom-Tert loops? In your case, that would be Fe-Se. What would that look like? I am well-acquainted with INFP Fi-Si loops or INFJ Ni-Ti loops, so I assume each kind has their own variety.

Fidela, I've seen several threads about ENFJ internal loops. We experience some internal perpetual loop sometimes. I've noticed I get in modes analyzing the daylights out of myself, compartmentalizing, and telling myself to do certain things... and it drags me down. (heavily Ni+Ti loop?) To break from this world I have to "do" things externally. So it doesn't seem like an Fe-Se loop.

 

[Arclight]

I was actually thinking about that when I wrote that. I guess what I was thinking was that some people are so forced in how they present themselves that it doesn't seem natural. If you really are who you say you are then you don't have to constantly prove to others that you are what you say you are. That's my philosophy. Many ENFJs are insanely nice and friendly but the ones who are genuinely so aren't doing it just to convince to others that they are "nice" or "friendly". People who do things primarily to prove themselves to others are people who I consider "fake". Basically, I think that people who try too hard are overcompensating for a real or perceived deficit. For example, i have noticed that the so-called "know it alls" in my classes aren't usually the brightest bulb in the class but they talk, talk, and talk to PROVE to people how freaking smart they are...

Oh I see!!.. I think you'll like this motivation poster I made the other day

 

[Unkindloving]

Fidela, I've seen several threads about ENFJ internal loops. We experience some internal perpetual loop sometimes. I've noticed I get in modes analyzing the daylights out of myself, compartmentalizing, and telling myself to do certain things... and it drags me down. (heavily Ni+Ti loop?) To break from this world I have to "do" things eternally. So it doesn't seem like an Fe-Se loop.

Agreed so hard. I've been pimping out the Form of the Inferior threads lately (all of which can be found in the personality matrices subforum). The one for EFJs describes it well.
I was fairly recently paralyzed by the Ni-Ti demons for a while. Se just would not kick in. It was a bitch of a time.
I don't even know what an Fe-Se loop would look like. I'd need examples from personal experience.

 

[Glycerine]

The internal loops are awful. I was in one for a few years, off and on. I think if you have read some of my more negative posts, there is the Ni-Ti loop for you. Paranoia and over-analysis... fun times.

 

[Domino]

Fidelia, in answer to the question you asked me (ages ago) about Fe-Se loops - I have two stress modes -- Fe-Se looping and Ni-Ti looping. Though my Fe-Ni axis is balanced, my primary modus operandi is Fe, and when I'm stressed, my first response is to move. To get up and walk. To physically engage myself. I have to change something, alter it somehow in the broadest sense of the meaning. It could be my body, it could be a project, it could be making my environment less hostile (I've been known to go through the house with a cup of soapy water and a toothbrush scrubbing marks off the walls). I used to constantly change my appearance - hot pink hair, mohawk, going abruptly from waist-length hair to something barely touching my shoulders to a shaved head, wild earrings, clothes as varied as cowboy to cyber punk. I wanted to jar myself, jar the people around me, create a ripple, force us ALL to view me through different eyes. It was the only way to escape the prison. Taking the outside world in hand and making *IT* observe.

EDIT: I've long used my Fe-Se loop to determine who can "take" me and who can't, especially men. It's been a nearly foolproof way of gauging who really sees me for what I am in all of my incarnations. I recall my ISFP friend telling me recently that he'd never seen a more fitting and flattering style on me than a mohawk. He knows me well enough to understand that the style was "me" and not a statement. My ISTP best friend would always react to something new and bold with praise and invested observations. I can trust people like that. I used to like to push boundaries around with my ENTP ex - I'd show up "new" and I'd watch him respond. It was always a visceral moment. It ranged from "unexpected" to "unexpected turn-on".

Summary: No one puts Baby in a corner. Mind my Fe-Se.


If for whatever unfortunate reason I can't exorcise the energy, my Ni-Ti kicks in to tear it apart and attempt to explain why the exorcism didn't occur or wasn't successful, like two doctors arguing over a patient's bed. My Ni starts spidering everything trying to divine the "truth" in the "big picture" from crumbs of data. I get stuck in there like you wouldn't believe.

 

[Glycerine]

It's like dialectic model for me. At one extreme, Ni-Ti makes me go into analysis paralysis where I get trapped inside of myself and go down a dark scary alley with no light at the end. At the other extreme, Fe-Se makes me go into an action intensive mode where I make decisions in the heat of the moment and don't think things through. The end goal is to get anything and everything done. Damn those who lie in my path....they will be bulldozed. It's an interesting mixture of playing the victim and being the aggressor. Through the process of stress, I am trying to get to the mean.

 

[Domino]

It's like dialectic model for me. At one extreme, Ni-Ti makes me go into analysis paralysis where I get trapped inside of myself and go down a dark scary alley with no light at the end. At the other extreme, Fe-Se makes me go into an action intensive mode where I make decisions in the heat of the moment and don't think things through. The end goal is to get anything and everything done. Damn those who lie in my path....they will be bulldozed. It's an interesting mixture of playing the victim and being the aggressor. Through the process of stress, I am trying to get to the mean.

We are as one.

 

[Domino]

Yes, anyone who can get me calm or cut through the static is A+ in my book. I live in a high state, even when I'm totally quiet and saying nothing. One of my ENTP friends told me once that I was like a coiled spring (he was being complimentary, but it made me wonder about myself). Just today, my sister was describing me to someone as a brilliant, moody, creative person. (Oh YOU ) She's by far the more level-headed, or shall I say, less excitable, of the two of us.

I liked having my INTJ bff around because he had a way of reflecting my plan of action mode back to me with clarifications attached. We'd bounce that stuff off one another in a sort of rapid fire way. I guess I knew deep down that if I couldn't think through something to my satisfaction that he would find my mistakes or create a plan I would be at ease with. It's nice to know someone you don't have to always consult with to depend on.

I find all sorts of types to be calming. My ENFP sister for example. I don't know how I ever would have navigated the real world without her. My ENTJ bff helped me to not be afraid of my own body. My ESFP bff grounds me and acts as a very badly needed comforting presence when I can't calm myself in the physical realm.

My Se is weak. It acts on me *to* act, but I need help channeling it, which I've learned on my own, developing it. My Ni is extremely strong and causes me to be up in the air all the time. It's something I'm ashamed of sometimes. I feel like this unreachable, immaterial, volatile thing - like a souped-up 427 dropped into a Ford Escort.

 

[Moiety]

The day I can convince my ENFJ that I'm ever right is the day I die happy.

 

[Domino]

hahhaa, good luck with that, Moiety.

 

[Moiety]

hahhaa, good luck with that, Moiety.

You can say that again. It's probably the one person in the whole world which I feel completely incapable of making any progress with. There is just no chance of having a normal conversation for long.

 

[Domino]

You can say that again. It's probably the one person in the whole world which I feel completely incapable of making any progress with. There is just no chance of having a normal conversation for long.

That sounds troublesome. And rather exhausting.

 

[Mondo]

You can say that again. It's probably the one person in the whole world which I feel completely incapable of making any progress with. There is just no chance of having a normal conversation for long.

I'd have thought the ENFJ's "super Fe" would have allowed for some decent normal conversations...guess not.

 

[Moiety]

That sounds troublesome. And rather exhausting.

Yeah. And I think it shaped a lot of my personality. On one hand she is one of the most giving individuals I know and always wants to help other people. At home she can be overbearing and you can imagine how that would being even worse with an FP. And the same time I know she means well and I'd just like to make her see I care (even though we just...disagree completely on so many things).

 

[Mondo]

Yeah. And I think it shaped a lot of my personality. On one hand she is one of the most giving individuals I know and always wants to help other people. At home she can be overbearing and you can imagine how that would being even worse with an FP. And the same time I know she means well and I'd just like to make her see I care (even though we just...disagree completely on so many things).

Fe/Fi conflicts are often some of the most...er...passionate.
Fe is even more overbearing than Te. (At least outside of the workplace..)

 

[Moiety]

I'd have thought the ENFJ's "super Fe" would have allowed for some decent normal conversations...guess not.

Her Fe is different towards me as her son. Always making sure I didn't forget anything and that I'm not screwing my own life up. But she isn't much for the "opening up" kind of conversation or for sure relaxing and cracking a few jokes.

 

[Domino]

Mondo - (first post from you - I'm slow on the draw) Not if you're dealing with highly defensive Fe/Ni. That can pretty much shut everything down or funnel it into a joke.

Moiety - how this person *is* at home seems to be the more important factor as *you* have to live with it, not the outside world.

 

[Moiety]

Not if you're dealing with highly defensive Fe/Ni. That can pretty much shut everything down or funnel it into a joke.

Oh yeah, she is very defensive.

 

[Mondo]

Her Fe is different towards me as her son. Always making sure I didn't forget anything and that I'm not screwing my own life up. But she isn't much for the "opening up" kind of conversation or for sure relaxing and cracking a few jokes.

Probably the motherly instinct then. Oh well..maybe you could get her to open up but I'm guessing you've tried that many times.

 

[Domino]

Oh yeah, she is very defensive.

Then a factor of trust is missing (not blaming anyone here, just saying). Either she has a history of having something to defend or perhaps she needs a primer in how to interpret and respond to your "opening up" questions? What is it exactly that you wish to deeply connect on?

Sometimes my ENFP sister will shell me with questions (out of concern) and I'll automatically back up and ball up. Sometimes she'll say "XYZ needs to get done" and I respond "not this second/minute" for whatever reason (time constraints, late hour, present occupation, etc), and she'll say (mistified) "I didn't mean right NOW". I can't tell you how many of those little exchanges we've had and I've known her for 33 years. lol Sometimes she pushes me to open up, and I have a visceral repulsion to it - not because it's her, because I trust her with my life and would talk to her about most anything, but because I'm not ready.

It's difficult to get us to talk when we absolutely do NOT want to talk. The only other intuitive type I've met who's THAT evasive are INFJs. NFPS, even the introverted ones, might be amazed by just how on the surface they can live while much NFJs CANNOT. I'm submerged 98% of the time. I can't survive on the surface, not without a lot of help.