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Thread: Common ENFJ Issues

  1. #21
    Junior Member Array Chill's Avatar
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    Jul 2010


    Thank you Domino for your frank view. Whether she thinks I'm emotionally unstable or not I don't know, but she does know I'm an emotional person and she seems to be able to read me quite well as I can her most, if not all, of the time.

    I do constantly wish I could blurt, "Just give it to me!", especially to that ENFJ as she can be quite guarded about certain issues (certain personal details). I can begin my operation into dissecting for details as I do with most others but upon picking up cues that she's awkward with my further probing, I would almost instantly let it go as there is this sense that she would think I've gone overboard.

    Even with the knowledge that most ENFJs are happy for people to want to get to know them, I face this dilemma of whether or not to ask more whenever I get a bit of an uneasy aura from her.

    ENFJs are definitely lovely beings but their guardedness is disconcerting, at least of that friend of mine.

    Nevertheless, with regards to my original predicament, she somehow stepped up on her act when we met two days ago and went as far as willing out details of that particular topic around which there used to be a don't-want-to-go-there zone without my even trying to pick at.

    I was glad and proud of her, though sometimes I think no matter how much an ENFJ can confide in you, there is always an air of mystery to their existence. Well, I don't know, just saying.

  2. #22


    Might I ask an ENFJ question? I really enjoy the company of enfjs and get some very good feedback from them. They can be quite critical, but typically it is criticism that I can use for self improvement. Given enfps can be a bit oblivious about Fe, it really helps to have this very direct input.

    In spite of this, I often feel my ENFJ relationships start with bright smiles and end very quickly in a repulsive fashion-like North and south ends of a magnet. Not badly or drama filled-just a mutual recognition of the other as being very, very outside our understanding.

    On the INFJ thread it was mentioned that to let an INFJ (Or ISFJ) user know you have heard them, you should repeat the message back, question and make sure you understand subleties and avoid issue directives or solutions in an overt Te style, especially if you may have overgeneralized the problem. Also, you should ask them about themselves and allow them to share, as they will not feel it is good to do so unless invited. In turn they will invite you to share, then you mutaully explore a certain depth of interaction based upon how much each of you chooses to share in turn. (I think this is sorta right....)

    How does this transfer to ENFJs? I tried to ask one ENFJ questions and she just talked and talked and talked about herself...but never asked me anything back. Another one kept asking way too much about how I felt and wanted to place me in a group organization so I could be with other people, without ever seeming to want to share herself? (I dont need her to share as I would not want to be invasive, but wasnt sure where to take the convo)

    How do I let an ENFJ know I would like to share, or let them know I am uncomfortable sharing anymore emotionally, without seeming self centered or uncaring?


  3. #23


    You can try to change the subject and typically I think they get the hint.

  4. #24
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    May 2008


    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I'm glad that you guys are doing this. So here's a start: Where do common areas of conflict come up between you and other types? Secondly, in what ways are your actions/behaviours sometimes not understood or misconstrued? Finally, what are any leftover things you have to add to the mix that may or may not be ENFJ issues?

    I do know that while ENFJs are both genuine and personable, many people don't really get to know them. They will even steer conversation away from themselves. I'm guessing it has something to do with not being sure if 1) The other person is really that interested 2) They can handle their intensity 3) They are used to taking that role with other people so it feels unnatural or selfish to talk about their own problems 4) Only a very select core group of people know who they really are and it takes time to build up that kind of trust. Don't know though.
    As far as I'm aware (and this could, of course, be glossing over a more painful reason...) is that I assume the other person isn't really that interested. I frequently hold back to see if the other person is going to pursue it. I understand how it could be perceived by other types as "playing games," but really I just don't trust that they'll a) respond to me in the nonjudgemental and genuinely interested way I'm looking for and b) actually want to know what I'm going to say, and have the patience to hear me out. It's a combination of trust/being self-conscious about talking about myself.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
    Yes, Yes, Yes, & Yes . I dunno, I feel like conversation is an art form that some people (not all) aren't really good at. I have no problem opening up if I felt like the other person really cared.
    Sparrow, this is what I was trying to say. I feel like I set unreasonable expectations for my close friends (although have found a few who meet them..) because I expect them to be fricken therapists in order to "earn" their insight into me :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Chill View Post
    Hi, I'm new.

    I've been wondering these past few days, with all due respect, are ENFJs prone to white lies if they think they may be hurting you? I've approached an ENFJ good friend about her tendency to change a particular topic and avoid giving the whole truth. Although she said she did not mean to and she knew I felt them out (the white lies), she still did it, is now still on the same page and I'm left dumbstruck.

    Now, I'm torn between putting up with those white lies (don't know how much longer I can be patient) pretending that I did not catch them, and calling her out on them for the second time, which seems like a dreadful thing for me to do. Granted, the first time was a difficult decision, but I'm grateful she responded well and even said toward the end, "I'm glad we talked".
    Chill, this is me as well. Given the ENFJ warmth and "love for humanity", we are uber-conscientious about not hurting anyone's feelings, under any conditions, ever, no matter what, times infinity. Lying makes us anxious because it means we're not being genuine, and that's a prime no-no and it decreases self-esteem. It feels like a betrayal of ourselves to not be being genuine. So the white lies are usually because we just don't know how to hurt someone, and you're right that calling us out on it would probably just result in a tearful pleading on our knees for your forgiveness and continued trust and friendship, way out of proportion to the actual effects of the lie :P.

    My ex-boyfriend found a way to deal with this; he noticed when I was trying to say something without saying it, and pointed out that whatever I had to say was okay, because there was not a disingenuous bone in my body and he trusted me to not be trying to hurt him . It turns out that I was telling my lies to blow him off because I just didn't know how to request time for myself...I recognized the need for it, but felt bad telling people I couldn't be around them because I had prioritized the other demands on my time, and they lost the tug of war for my precious few hours. Now that I had been reassured it was even better to be honest since it meant being true to myself, and that's a kind of genuineness, I just started telling him I didn't want to hang out. Twenty one years it took to be able to say "I just don't feel like it today" instead of "I can't" or "I wish I could". But I DID IT!!! Of course, he was an INTP, so he was all the more content with not socializing :P

    The best thing you can say is "I hear/see/am feeling that you don't feel like you can tell me something. Whatever it is, I won't be offended/hurt/judgemental because I'll be glad to have helped you to be happy. And that's what I'm really here for.
    Last edited by *poke*; 08-04-2010 at 11:55 PM. Reason: remove smiley

  6. #26
    Senior Member Array Sparrow's Avatar
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    May 2010


    ^ It feels pointless to share personal things that matter if there's no response back right!
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

  7. #27
    Junior Member Array Chill's Avatar
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    Jul 2010


    Ah thank you *poke*!

    I saw rays of lights after reading your post. I guess with ENFJs I'll have to be more sensitive of their fear about hurting others in order to better provide adequate assurance for them to say it as it is.

    I'm genuinely happy that you have overcome that hurdle *poke*, and also that you have found the precious ones who have met your unreasonable expectations. I'm sure you love them to bits =).

    Speaking of which, does that mean ENFJs in general are very aware of the people in their circle and are constantly on the lookout for those who do meet their expectations of a valuable confidant?

  8. #28


    Moved to the ENFJ issue thread as I think we are having some communication issues that span types and functions....

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Don't you all have a thread for this already

    It's like there can never be a discussion about anything here without it being dominated by a certain POV. Yall don't ever try to engage or facilitate discussion, never try to ask other people what their processes are, always try to dissect yourselves ad nauseam. There is no dialogue, just a series of people contributing their own monologues, obsessed with their own thoughts and processes and only really trying to talk to other people who process like them who can monologue with them. I don't know how you all think dialogue occurs but it my mind you open up spaces by actively asking and engaging other people to offer input.

    This breaks it down better than I can:

    That right there is a major component of empathy, in fact it's called empathetic listening. STFU and letting others speak, asking people to share their experiences not asserting the foolishness that was thrown around earlier in this thread. That particular process is called empathetic accuracy, listening to others to make sure your sense of empathy was correct and not some ego-stroke in your head to validate your sense of self and never trying to verify if you were right about what you felt.

    Do you all ever notice that FJs barely ever participate in such discussions and when they do it tends to be defensively? Why do you think that happens? There certainly are enough thoughtful IxFJs here to make solid contributions. We've had more and more Fe doms show up, but they don't interject much. And other types barely utter a peep. Why do you all think that is or have you not even noticed it (probably the latter)? Do you notice it and think this is no participation because there is no understanding or ability to relate, which is flat out wrong? I have tried to believe this is not an Fi/Fe thing, but maybe it just is and that's a sad thought to me.

    That's why I have my doubts about people's supposed powers of empathy. I don't feel like I have empathy coming back from the majority of NFPs on this forum. Maybe you all feel it with each other, but I don't feel it. And if you can only create an empathetic link with people who are like you and process like you then what kind of empathy is that? I can't speak for other people, so I'll contain this to myself. I don't feel particularly like my POV is understood and thank goodness I'm not looking for it to be validated here...I got over that in 2008.

    I do strongly feel that erroneous and incomplete information needs to be addressed because I hate for misinformation to be spread about like it's fact, which is my stake in this discussion. That's why I brought up the concepts of empathetic accuracy and perceived empathy. To me, not including those ingredients is like trying to bake a cake with no flour, eggs, sugar, butter, and milk and then steadily asserting that what you have in the oven is in fact a cake.
    Hey Pro,

    Actually the new thread is an exploration of FiSi and how it can form a simulations internally which give rise to projected emotional content. Skylight and myself dovetailed and Ne hopped the topic a bit. It was glad to see skylight concur as I have thrown this out there a few times and not gotten a lot of uptake, so it is cool to see skylight "see" what I see.

    In my first post notice I didnt claim "empathy". I know claiming the term bothers you so I avoided doing so. I did suggest "sympathy" but did so in a fashion that was open for reinterpretation.

    All I can say is what I feel internally and recognize that every individual around me will take any given word and interpret through their own lens, thus recognizing your sensitivity on the issue I choose to not give my experience a name.

    Dialogues vs monologues:

    The "I" monologues was discussed in the INFJ common issues thread in appears to be a linguistic an Fi user I speak of myself and assume it serves as an unspoken request for you to speak of yourself. It turns out this is not the case with Fe. An Fe users waits to have permission to share. (Can you look at my Q on the ENFJ common issue thread? How do I do this with ENFJs? What linguistic pattern needs to be employed?)

    This is totally a Te/Fi : Fe/Ti communications breakdown. It is buried deeply in how we communicate, the words we use, the way we say them. How we project our own expectations into the world around us. We are not selfish. It is hurtful to say we when we are thinking and communicating as our minds are designed to do so. We can learn to adapt to the needs of others but request you also do so as well.

    Dissecting each other:
    To be honest, esoteric, marm and skylights are like finding heaven for they really do share my perception. Thus I dont feel alone anymore. So yes, I seek to share my understanding of the world with them. It really has been awesome as of late.

    Hysterically I actually find my self endlessly dissecting other types. Last year it was the poor ENTPs....(Sorry guys), this year I have been dissecting the INTJs. ENFPs dissection occurs as well

    Validating Pro:
    I think you are awesome. I love your opinion. You teach me a lot...but recognize it is a passive listening process...I hear you...I learn....I change my behavior...but I never repeat what you have taught me back to you? Thus you feel like I was not listening? Should I have told you I was listening and then questioned for more and more refinement? i am not being sarcastic in anyway or mean in anyway.

  9. #29


    empathic accuracy.....

    So Pro this ties into a question I asked the INFJs...

    If given a generic moral/ethical situation, do you need to understand the context to make a decision or could you solve the problem using "person A", "person B", and "person C"? The INFJs said they needed context....This is much like INTJs need context to solve a logical problem.

    I think this is a Te/Fe combined with Ni need.

    It is clear that enfps fuck up when we try and talk about how Fe users "feel" and, although I have never done this, I see complaints about how Fi users will try and tell others how they are feeling in a presumptious way.

    My ENTP asked "How can you know what another Fi user feels is accurate?" I thought and then I told her, "It doesnt matter." Seems like a real fucked up answer. How could my misunderstanding of their feeling not matter? I kinda get what they are going through, I kinda know how they is close enough to affirm their feelings, help them calibrate their own reaction, help them not feel alone.....then we get down to business. Funny....almost like their is an unacknowledged understanding that I will never, ever, ever exactly feel what they feel, but will feel close...thus no need to go back and forth and gather more and more data, to "match my light on the wall to their light on the wall" . That isnt a needed step?

    I "empathically listen" during problem solving by asserting a Te solution or idea....then waiting for another enfp to assert another Te solution or idea...with each round of this we remold our understanding of the starting problem...which to you is perceived as endless monologues.

    Can you outline how you would like a conversation to proceed to best communicate to an enfj?

    Teach us how it is to best approach an ENFJ and meet their needs in the convo?

    Can you change your own understanding of how we communicate with one another will we eternally, morally be in the wrong for communicating in the way our minds are designed to communicate? Is it okay for me and the enfps to talk in our own linguistic manner between each other, or do you really feel we should modify everything we do in our one on one convos?

    As for FJs not contributing...I am delighted to understand and hear their thoughts. I love to hear what they think...but I think Fjs have to learn that they dont always have to wait for someone to request their is okay to contribute without prompting...

    Just as I learn I should ask questions to invite communication...FJs also must learn that it is okay to self prompt their own contribution....

  10. #30


    Orobas, I think in general, NJs need context. Ni seems to insanely context-based and holistic when it comes problem-solving.

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