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  1. #121
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Apologies for probing you on this .. Is it you that thinks it's an issue of codependency or have you been told this by another?

    My upbringing wasn't great and pregnent at 15 .. I've been told (once) i was codependent, but now away from the situation, i realise a lot of projection was going on or i'm just an asshole that brings out the worst in people .. If i love someone then i want to spend time with them .. Thats not codependency, that's love but i may be wrong.

    I'll check out the film though, out of interest .. Maybe i could learn something.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  2. #122
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Apologies for probing you on this .. Is it you that thinks it's an issue of codependency or have you been told this by another?
    Hey lady its all good, I don’t think your probing me .

    I think that codependency really is the issue, I pretty much diagnosed myself. He has had a lot of run in's with the law...drugs...past child hood issues, communication issues, etc. etc. I am always there to pick up the pieces, but it got to a point where it was just too much, I need to be cared for to you know! I’ve forgotten about myself and was way to focused on helping him. My own needs were not being met. We are taking a time out from each other for 2 weeks (as of yesterday) to think about everything and figure out what to do....our relationship is extremely turbulent right now and our fights are getting way more intense. Its not all his fault, I’ve been being very reactionary and demanding lately because of all of the resentments we have towards each other. I feel really needy right now It shouldn’t be that way. I used to be calm, confident, creative, and independent...I want to be that healthy me again, and I'm working on it !

    My upbringing wasn't great and pregnent at 15 .. I've been told (once) i was codependent, but now away from the situation, i realise a lot of projection was going on or i'm just an asshole that brings out the worst in people .. If I love someone then I want to spend time with them .. Thats not codependency, that's love but I may be wrong.
    No its not wrong to want to spend time with someone, that is love ! I dont know the whole story between you and your ex so its hard for me to say if your situation was a codependent one or not. Did he have a lot of issues, drugs, addictions, unresolved child hood issues, etc.? If you dont feel comfy talking about here please feel free to PM if you want to talk <3.

    I'll check out the film though, out of interest .. Maybe i could learn something.
    You should! Whenever you get around to it let me know what you think .
    Fe | Ni | Se | Ti ... 3w4 ... Lawful Neutral ... Johari -Nohari

  3. #123
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Last night, Jaye was talking to our mutual ENFJ friend, Taco. He's married to an INFP. He said that sometimes he gets positively giddy and drives her insane. Jaye told him that I went through about 5 or 6 emotional states in the course of a day, and that if I was giddy and making *her* insane, it was because I was agitated about some major issue(s) that I couldn't get rid of or get closure on.

    I've learned that if I'm in a high state like that (usually it mascarades as good humor, only on speed...) it's because I haven't been able to rid myself of excess bad energy. I can get very physical and even pushy (in Taco's case, he said he got "hand-sy"). After a lot of thought, I realized it's my Se trying to right the ship, to push my environment (or the people in it) to create some kind of more tolerable change. I have to be pretty deeply disturbed or miserable to start pushing and pulling.

    When I was a teenager, it showed up as acting out, putting my horns down, or picking fights with people I found antagonistic. I suppose it was a control issue. Provoking the other person to react to me gave me power over them, made *them* feel helpless, like "you wanna tussle? let's tussle". I had no idea until last night what an influence my tertiary Se had over how I get rid of stress.

    Can other ENFJs relate?
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Last night, Jaye was talking to our mutual ENFJ friend, Taco. He's married to an INFP. He said that sometimes he gets positively giddy and drives her insane. Jaye told him that I went through about 5 or 6 emotional states in the course of a day, and that if I was giddy and making *her* insane, it was because I was agitated about some major issue(s) that I couldn't get rid of or get closure on.

    I've learned that if I'm in a high state like that (usually it mascarades as good humor, only on speed...) it's because I haven't been able to rid myself of excess bad energy. I can get very physical and even pushy (in Taco's case, he said he got "hand-sy"). After a lot of thought, I realized it's my Se trying to right the ship, to push my environment (or the people in it) to create some kind of more tolerable change. I have to be pretty deeply disturbed or miserable to start pushing and pulling.

    When I was a teenager, it showed up as acting out, putting my horns down, or picking fights with people I found antagonistic. I suppose it was a control issue. Provoking the other person to react to me gave me power over them, made *them* feel helpless, like "you wanna tussle? let's tussle". I had no idea until last night what an influence my tertiary Se had over how I get rid of stress.

    Can other ENFJs relate?
    Can other ENFJs relate?
    SO much so, my head is spinning..

    When people at work tell me, "no way you are shy or introverted". (Don't be fooled by the E, I really am )Its because they have no idea how nervous the whole place makes me and I am burning off that energy.This is also a defense mechanism to keep most people at bay. Most people enjoy the show, but keep their distance.. which suits me fine.

    The scary thing is.. Your teenage reaction is still my reaction, and I am 41 .. ouch!

    On other news.. Did this person's parents, really call their child Taco??

  5. #125
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Aye, it's still in me to react that way. I've just gotten a whole lot better at controlling it.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  6. #126
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
    Hey lady its all good, I don’t think your probing me .

    I think that codependency really is the issue, I pretty much diagnosed myself. He has had a lot of run in's with the law...drugs...past child hood issues, communication issues, etc. etc. I am always there to pick up the pieces, but it got to a point where it was just too much, I need to be cared for to you know! I’ve forgotten about myself and was way to focused on helping him. My own needs were not being met. We are taking a time out from each other for 2 weeks (as of yesterday) to think about everything and figure out what to do....our relationship is extremely turbulent right now and our fights are getting way more intense. Its not all his fault, I’ve been being very reactionary and demanding lately because of all of the resentments we have towards each other. I feel really needy right now It shouldn’t be that way. I used to be calm, confident, creative, and independent...I want to be that healthy me again, and I'm working on it !
    Have a I'm going to say it .. Discard it or use it, entirely up to you.
    Firstly you are brave for admitting there is an issue, remember you are not your parents, let them make their mistakes and learn from it. You spent your life being conditioned, attaching labels to yourself and it's hard to admit we are not perfect, lol. Strip the layers away and ask 'who am i'? Bloody hard i found. Sometimes when we want the best for the people we love, we actually cause more pain because ultimately we can be there for the other, but they need to be there for themselves and i know it's cliche but the saying 'If you love them, let them go ...... It's true, it hurts like fucking hell but that person needs to be alone to heal. We can try with the best of intentions but when we put a band aid on anothers wound, even though completed in a loving and tender manner, it's their body who has to go through the motions to heal that wound.

    I'm going to shut up now, lol.

    You'll know what the right thing is to do .. Even if your head and heart differs in opinion

    No its not wrong to want to spend time with someone, that is love ! I dont know the whole story between you and your ex so its hard for me to say if your situation was a codependent one or not. Did he have a lot of issues, drugs, addictions, unresolved child hood issues, etc.? If you dont feel comfy talking about here please feel free to PM if you want to talk <3.
    Thank you so much for the offer. It's done and in the past. I'm learning from it.

    You should! Whenever you get around to it let me know what you think .
    It's in my favourites, i will get round to watching it eventually. Recommendation for you Awareness by Anthony de Mello (Similar to E.Tolle's Power Of Now, but i felt it was humanised, also comical in places) I found this book to have a nice perspective on relationships for it mentions something on the lines of 'What's more important, your happiness or that of a relationship'. I originally chose relationship but later realised if i am not happy in myself, how the hell can i be happy in a relationship, i'm going to make the poor bugger miserable and myself at some point.

    Anyway, that's it. I hope you find what you need to find in yourself. You seem like a strong woman
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  7. #127
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    My biggest problem? I get too stressed out over people, and how I appear to them. When my groups fall apart, when friends don't pay enough attention to me, when I feel so alone in the universe that nobody gets me...sometimes these things take up a great amount of my mental bandwidth. Worry. It's pointless. At least on an intellectual level I realize that. Getting to the point where I can chillax, and let the world fall apart around me. Who cares? I wasn't in control of any of those things to begin with.
    Love is the point.

  8. #128
    Member bronson's Avatar
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    The constant 'how am I appearing to others?' question is a vain and exhausting obsession that will never die, even if I'd like it to.

    I think we can be pretty confusing to friends/others due to the intermittent divergence into an Ni state. Most of the time we're so smooth and out there socially, the life of the party, friend to everyone etc - but that one odd day when all I can do is sit in my room alone philosophising or writing or something; people just don't seem to get it, they're like 'what's wrong with you, snap out of it!' But its like NO i need to have this sacred time let me be! (Anyone else get that?)

    Definitely got some control issues, trying to let go - but yeah like I said, controlling my appearance/presentation is jus too automatic and unavoidable.

    And controlling/maintaining social situations - well its just nice; who wants to let things get awkward or nasty? Not me

  9. #129
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronson View Post
    And controlling/maintaining social situations - well its just nice; who wants to let things get awkward or nasty? Not me
    Spoken like a benevolent dictator!

    The problem with this outlook is that it is inherently one-sided; things are "awkward" only when the ENFJ defines them as such. This is not a problem at all when things are going well. An example I used in another thread was the ENFJ hosting a party - ENFJs are adept at making sure everything is running smoothly. However, when something which the ENFJ considers disharmonious occurs, i.e. when something happens why may jeopardise whatever the ENFJ defines as "stable" in that context, such as the party's "atmosphere", one can be on the end of a tongue-lashing.

    Difficulties also seem to arise regarding rules and procedure. ENFJs often seem to be right when they talk about rules and procedures: if we do x in good time, then we avoid y and z which is a good thing for everyone. You can't really argue with it, but it's all about how this viewpoint is implemented. To an INFP, ENFJs just seem to spend far too much time worrying over the minutiae of everyday life. The lack of flexibility can result in the very common "There is no other way but mine" stance, which is deeply unattractive in all senses of the word. Some examples of these concerns might be:

    • thinking about what to have for dinner before you've even had lunch
    • getting really annoyed if the cap is left off the toothpaste, or some of the block of cheese you grated was left out after dinner
    • buying more milk because you thought that, the other day, the milk looked like it could run out if someone used a lot so you bought another bottle just to be on the safe side even though it'll probably be okay
    • thinking about perhaps wanting to go on holiday 18 months from now, maybe, so...better start making a savings plan immediately, just in case
    • worrying that everyone else is having a better time than you are/is more successful than you are/has done more/better/cooler things than you have
    • not always perceiving that other people are taking you for a ride


    This sort of thing can be good and bad from my INFP perspective.

    It's great to have people around who think about these things! I'm a typical INFP and I am (literally) too busy thinking about abstract concepts to even attempt to remember that I have to feed myself from time to time, or go to the shops, or pick up that think that you told me about the other day but I forgot because I was too busy thinking about how I relate to the world.

    I imagine ENFJs consider this pretty pointless because there is no perceptible application of these thoughts to life and, well, it's all a bit silly isn't it, all this book-reading and daydreaming? However, counterpointed against my INFPness, ENFJ "goodness" can quickly become ENFJ "badness" if "too much individuality" is on show. Being a flouncy, moody daydreamer with few concrete plans, my capricious nature can be the ENFJ's antithesis. I get the feeling that ENFJs would like to say "Can you just stop being so emotional about everything so that we can all have a lovely time?" The deeper message I perceive at times is something akin to: "Can you just stop being so emotional about everything because people associate you with me and if you're being all weird and moody people might link us together in their minds and that'll reflect badly on me!"

    Frankly, I think ENFJs give other people too much credit. Then again, I'm terribly cynical. I think this is why INFP & ENFJ relationships, be they friendly or romantic, can be quite effective.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  10. #130
    Member bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    The problem with this outlook is that it is inherently one-sided; things are "awkward" only when the ENFJ defines them as such.
    Sure this is true, everybody's comfort level in each social situation is relative to that person and their social functions. However I would suggest the ENFJ as particularly sensative to the more implicit happenings in every social environment than other types and therefore we make the rules... joking! But, yes, perhaps we have concerns that others would never have noticed, and ultimately our mechanisms of social control may be selfishly motivated to appease our hyper-sensative comfort levels in each social situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    To an INFP, ENFJs just seem to spend far too much time worrying over the minutiae of everyday life. The lack of flexibility can result in the very common "There is no other way but mine" stance, which is deeply unattractive in all senses of the word. Some examples of these concerns might be:

    thinking about what to have for dinner before you've even had lunch
    getting really annoyed if the cap is left off the toothpaste, or some of the block of cheese you grated was left out after dinner
    buying more milk because you thought that, the other day, the milk looked like it could run out if someone used a lot so you bought another bottle just to be on the safe side even though it'll probably be okay
    thinking about perhaps wanting to go on holiday 18 months from now, maybe, so...better start making a savings plan immediately, just in case
    worrying that everyone else is having a better time than you are/is more successful than you are/has done more/better/cooler things than you have
    not always perceiving that other people are taking you for a ride

    This sort of thing can be good and bad from my INFP perspective.

    It's great to have people around who think about these things!
    Can't blame us for being a little anal retentive at times right?
    I think that our busy-ness attending to all this supposedly ridiculous details really comes from a good place, which is our want for everybody (the whole variety of different types of people we come into contact with) to feel comfortable and attended to in every way. Its just unfortunate that we make you more lax guys feel uncomfortable in doing so ... what can ya do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    I'm a typical INFP and I am (literally) too busy thinking about abstract concepts to even attempt to remember that I have to feed myself from time to time, or go to the shops, or pick up that think that you told me about the other day but I forgot because I was too busy thinking about how I relate to the world.

    I imagine ENFJs consider this pretty pointless because there is no perceptible application of these thoughts to life and, well, it's all a bit silly isn't it, all this book-reading and daydreaming? However, counterpointed against my INFPness, ENFJ "goodness" can quickly become ENFJ "badness" if "too much individuality" is on show. Being a flouncy, moody daydreamer with few concrete plans, my capricious nature can be the ENFJ's antithesis.
    Hmm, not so sure about this. I spend a great deal of my time day-dreaming also; we ENFJ folk aren't quite as concrete and practical as you make out - I think you're looking for an ESFJ there.
    I spend ridiculously long hours lost in philosophy, poetry and creative writing late into the night (such as right now - its 2am in Melbourne). But when I go back into my active life, with people all about me, there is less time for this much loved dreamy dillydallying.
    Nevertheless, it seems the INFP's find us a little over-bearing by the sound of it? Well, this may be the case from your perspective, however, compared to a whole host of other types we're extremely diplomatic and polite, well I am, and when 'maintaining a social situation' I would very rarely subject anyone to a 'good tongue lashing' (maybe), but would be far more discreet in turning conversation etc.

    Mannn sometimes I feel like such a fool talking about these things so overtly! Its great

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