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  1. #31
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    I would have to say that, although I would like to get married..it's the fact that I'd be tied down that would bother me. Sure, I'd love to have that one person with me for the rest of my life, but I wouldn't want to be forced to have them with me for the rest of my life by marriage..hmmm

  2. #32
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichikurosaki View Post
    I would have to say that, although I would like to get married..it's the fact that I'd be tied down that would bother me. Sure, I'd love to have that one person with me for the rest of my life, but I wouldn't want to be forced to have them with me for the rest of my life by marriage..hmmm
    And see, as trepiditious as locking down options would be, my thoughts are if a girl is good enough for me to really, truly feel I want to stay with her for the rest of my life, statistically I will never or darn near not find anyone better in an appreciable amount of time. This may have something to do with insecurities and values, though.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member hilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Hmm... I do relate to not wanting to get married. I don't know if all of these are INFP issues, but I try to summarize anyhow, so you can see if it could be any of these:

    1) My idea about love and trust is that you want to be with someone now and hope for it to be lasting. Not to have to "make a deal" about staying together forever. It is not true if I say I will always love you, "no matter what". I don't see how I could make that promise, and I want to stay true to myself and not make promises I don't know I can keep.

    2) I don't believe in god, so it is morally irrelevant if I get married or not.

    3) I don't want to have any legal issues mixed with love.

    4) I think that weddings are pretty weird situations altogether. I feel uncomfortable talking about my feelings in front of an audience.

    5) I don't believe in "owning" people and I feel like marriage is to claim your ownership over me.

    The only way I could imagine myself "getting married" and enjoying it would be if it was a very private party with the intention to celebrate the fact that we are together now, and no promises would be made and there would be no god or law involved. I would like to have a ring, though.

    I hope I don't sound too harsh... I tried to get all of my prejudices about marriage as clearly stated as possible so that you could have more info than if I was being politically correct with it. Basically the idea is that I don't feel I would get anything out of marriage, but I like the idea of celebrating love.

    Tell me, why do you want so much to get married?

    Wow, this is EXACTLY how I feel. It took almost getting married to figure that out, though...

    To the OP: I am curious also why you want to get married so much? I thought I wanted it once, but I realized it was just bowing to pressure from everyone else (even while I told myself I wasn't because I was doing things differently). When I REALLY looked at the issues I came to the same conclusions as posted above. Not that all INTP must have the same opinions obviously, but if you are very pro-marriage I find that interesting.

    EDIT: Somehow I missed the additional pages discussing your feelings on this so feel free to ignore.

    However I still think Nolla has stolen some of my thoughts.
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  4. #34
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    What does it take for an INFP to change his/her values? You should be rather steadfast in your ways as Fi is at the forefront, but you seem to accept others freely. What experiences have shown you that you need to adjust your values, if this has ever happened at all?
    For me, i am constantly evaluating and re-evaluating my values as new evidence and experiences come in. Values often have the potential to be conflicting, so evaluating them and looking for such inconsistences becomes necessary, especially so when they are important to personal identity. This is a process that people help facilitate, but not force.

    for example my views on marriage. Eventually when i was 18 or 19 I started to question my desire to get married; it might seem strange but once i actually thought about why i simply accepted marriage as something you just do, I realized most of my reasons for going along with that did not have much to do with my own desires to get married. When i evaluated this, i really thought about things like, "what place does marriage have in my ideal life?" "how important is my career to me?" etc.

    Eventually i decided that I would have to be in a position where I would have to find a romantic situation that was otherwise compatible with my goals and other values. Following the traditional ways of marriage and family is not something that appeals to me unless other goals and values are first satisfied. This process took years to get where it did.

    people helped facilitate these thoughts best when i didn't think they had an ulterior motive or trying to promote their beliefs as The Way, just when i thought they were utilizing their experiences/beliefs as a guide to help me wade through my questions. Or, if someone i truly care about is affected by my decisions. That's why, if my reasons for ambivalence about marriage were similar to the OPs boyfriend, her saying something like "I know it doesn't change much, but the one thing it would change is how secure i feel in this relationship and yeah, things wouldn't change otherwise", it would cause me to re-evaluate.
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  5. #35
    Member Dyoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    For me these values that I hold to are about the only thing that's constant about me. Think of an INFP as a rock covered with jelly. Lots of jelly. From afar it looks like a planet made of jelly, and you can poke all you want and even mold it into something. But then you find the rock and it won't move. At all.
    Okay. I think what I need to do is show him that is doesn't really go against his 'rock' core values. He's never said to me 'I'm opposed to marriage on moral grounds,' so hopefully that's not the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Because of the unpredictability of the value changing, I would suggest a little tweaking on the marriage. If all that matters is that you get married, then why not take anything away from the wedding that he disagrees with? Does it need to be in a church? Do you need many quests? Does the promise have to be "until death do us apart" or can it be "until I don't feel the love anymore"?
    That's a good idea, too. I've never really gotten into what I would actually like to do for a marriage - mostly because I have it planned out to great detail, and I'm worried that revealing that I've already planned it when we're not even engaged would make me look sort of crazy. I just want us to go on a vacation/honeymoon where we could elope, then come back and have a small reception afterward with our friends and family. I definitely don't want it to be in a church or have any mention to religions that we don't believe in.

    Or maybe bringing up details would make him feel like I was pushing him into it. I tried showing him a few ring sets on Etsy that I had found that I thought he would like, and he was responsive at first and then seemed to become less so...

    Quote Originally Posted by hilo View Post
    To the OP: I am curious also why you want to get married so much? I thought I wanted it once, but I realized it was just bowing to pressure from everyone else (even while I told myself I wasn't because I was doing things differently). When I REALLY looked at the issues I came to the same conclusions as posted above. Not that all INTP must have the same opinions obviously, but if you are very pro-marriage I find that interesting.
    Would it be more common for an INTJ to want to be married than INTP? Some tests I take said I was INTJ instead. Or maybe I'm just unusual. *sigh* I guess it has just always seemed like the logical 'next step' in a relationship. Even Seven of Nine got married, right...? haha.

  6. #36
    Senior Member hilo's Avatar
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    Would it be more common for an INTJ to want to be married than INTP? Some tests I take said I was INTJ instead. Or maybe I'm just unusual. *sigh* I guess it has just always seemed like the logical 'next step' in a relationship. Even Seven of Nine got married, right...? haha.
    Not necessarily, though I think the way you talk about planning things out and really seeing it as a necessary future condition reminds me of INTJ more than INTP. On the other hand, you have also raised reasons which are for better or worse external (even mentioning Seven of Nine above - this seems more like an an appeal to what everyone else does, not what is "right" with you) and not internally motivated. Of course I suspect even for INTJ types that these internalized convictions ultimately root elsewhere, but I am not one so it is hard to say.

    Perhaps I should not push you on this, but have you considered how you would feel if you were dumped into a world where marriage was extremely uncommon? Imagine if you had to go around to everyone and explain what a husband was, what marriage was, and why you did it. (For the purposes of this exploration, imagine the legal advantages are available without marriage). Would you still feel it was the natural next step?
    I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
    - Umberto Eco

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    Ti = Ne (41.3) > Si (31.2) ~ Ni (31.1) ~ Te (30.1) > Se (24.1) >> Fe (21) & Fi (20.1)

  7. #37
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    I think nolla mentioned some very good points.

    "I´ll feel more adult", "People will see me as more adult", "It is on my checklist of things I want to have done before I´m 30" and "I´ll feel more secure" are not reasons that will convice a typical INFP, I´m afraid. These reasons have little to do with your relationship (because somebody hypersensitive might read into it that you like the thought of getting married rather than wanting to marry HIM, specifically) and a lot with what you want for yourself and how you feel about yourself. An INFP might wonder where he fits into all this.

    For the sake of clarity: I´m not saying you´re being selfish or that you don´t love your boyfriend or that this has to be the reason he hesitates. And it might be a cultural thing (where I live being unmarried in your late twenties or early thirties is quite normal and so is living together unmarried at any age), but it caught my attention when I read your posts.

    There is no guarantee that carrying a ring will make you feel better about yourself (more mature, more accomplished, more respected). If it really is this important to you and there are no strings attached for him (and he might think that strings are what marriage is all about) you might eventually get him to agree because he loves you and he wants to see you happy. You said that marriage is yet another level of emotional commitment. This is the one argument you mentioned that might get through to a feeler! So you might want to try that angle (without making it sound like you´re putting a gun to his head while holding some handcuffs in the other hand ;-)

    The differences you are experiencing seem to be more about personal values than about type and the NF-NT combination can work wonderfully. Good luck!
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyoni View Post
    He's never said to me 'I'm opposed to marriage on moral grounds,' so hopefully that's not the case.
    Even if he is, he might not be against all aspects of marriage. If you can make him think about what he is against in it, then you will get somewhere. It is quite possible that he just feels "something" about it that he doesn't like, and you should try to get him to be more specific. Personally I analyze my attitudes and divide them to pieces and try to see what it is about. When I am confronted with something I haven't thought about, I might get a feeling of disagreement, but I might not know immediately what it is about, so I have to focus on it and see what it is. Remember that with INFPs it won't be clear in a minute. I think he will have to consider it for some time.

    How to tell him to do this might be tricky, as he obviously needs to be motivated finding out, and if he is forced into it, he won't take it seriously.

  9. #39

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    I've been married to an INTJ for 14 years now. I was 26 and she was 24. I got married because I wanted to get married. It's as simple as that.

    Here's on thing you have to consider. Women marry the right person. Men marry at the right time.

    I've seen this across all MBTI types. A committed relationship whether it's marriage or something else has a schedule. Sometimes we want to get our life together first. Maybe we want to travel and see what's out there. It's different from guy to guy but a committed relationship only happens after other things happen first.

    However, marriage like any long term relationships is work. You can't change people and you can't assume he will change. Unless he's demonstrated a history of self-motivated change, what you get now will be what you get for the rest of your life including all the problems that come the way he is now. If he's emotional, withdrawn and avoid dealing with issues, that's probably not going to change. Can you live with that?

    Do you have similar values because interests will change? My wife and I don't like similar movies or books anymore. However, the things that are important to me (our kids, family, growth, change, etc) are important to her so we've always grown in the same direction.

    I guess my question is how do you know he's the right guy? Marriage is work. You can't coast. Love is a terrible reason to get married. Because day-to-day living with another person isn't going to magically be easy just because you love them. Love isn't a relationships skill. The three biggest reasons for break in order are money, sex and kids. If you have money issues then loving someone more isn't going to solve that issue. Communication, learning to compromise, figuring out how to find balance, learning to delay gratification are relationship skills. How good are either of you at those things?

    Also, INFPs learn by experiencing. So unless your INFP has been in another long term committed relationship before you, he's not going to understand the work involved and won't be able to find the balance inside himself to deal with that.

    Every INFP I know personally has been divorced at least once. I haven't because I didn't marry my first love. I made all the long-term relationship mistakes with that one so I didn't make them when I got married. Has he made all his long-term relationships mistakes yet or are you willing to be the test case?
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