just hanging in limbo
Do any INFPs relate to this?
My INFP sister sucks at arguing in person (like her points/evidence is not logical, sometimes she doesn't even have any evidence), but she is okay when she writes them out like in an essay or something.
"Avoid getting too preoccupied thinking about what you’re going to do, to actually do it."
— Rachel Wolchin
sense and nonsense
Yah, I used to have a similar problem. I've gotten much better at articulating myself, but I tend not to get into arguments/debates because pondering over the course of a few weeks allows me to come to more solid conclusions. By the time I get there, just knowing my thoughts on the topic is satisfying and I don't bother sharing what I came up with. This makes people outside of my family think I'm less judgmental than I am.
Originally Posted by Smilephantomhive
I still do better in writing alone than in real time speech or text. My thoughts as they're occurring are often too shallow to signify much and or my points any justice. Something about laying the words out on a document makes them clearer and easier to organize.
no great skills
Yes, I relate. My thought process tends to be very non-linear and organizing ideas takes a lot more mental effort than generating them. If I’m going to make a structured argument, I need to write down what I think before organizing my ideas into a structure, or at the very least have plenty of time to work it out in my head.
Originally Posted by Smilephantomhive
I can also relate to seeming irrational or like I have little to no evidence for what I think, if I haven’t prepared to speak about it ahead of time. Sometimes it’s because once I’ve picked up on a pattern, the specific examples fade into the background of my mind a bit as I focus more on the pattern itself. If it’s been a while since I’ve thought about something, I can talk about my conclusion but I might struggle to immediately recall the specifics that led me to it. (I’m not sure if this is a common INFP problem, though -- it could just be that I have an unusually crappy memory). I’ve also jumped to conclusions based on a few occurrences and, upon further inspection, realized I didn’t have enough evidence and failed to look at all the ways in which my conclusion didn’t match reality. (I think this occurs mostly when I'm in a FiSi loop. I've also heard this is common among Ne-inferior people.) I then have to take a closer look at the evidence and redraw my conclusions accordingly.
On the other hand, if I’m just expressing a thought or opinion but not really trying to make an organized, evidence-based argument, I usually don't have much trouble explaining myself in person. Speaking to someone directly actually encourages me to get to the point, but when writing I'm more tempted to over-elaborate and sometimes end up obscuring the main thing I'm trying to say.
“If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.” - Hermann Hesse
I can sort of relate to it. I've always had a tough time expressing myself accurately because I assumed that the thought processes that went into my conclusions would be easy to follow and replicate. I also tend to forget them so reproducing them for someone else tends to be quite difficult =D
Originally Posted by Smilephantomhive
Since I became active in politics and stuff like that I've learned to structure my thoughts and express myself in a way that other people can actually follow. I'm much much better at arguing in person now. Being an INFP brings some great advantages to the table as well that anyone who tries to improve their debating skills will most definitely notice.
I've heard a lot that INFPs sometimes have a problem communicating a certain issue or explaining something in a conversation. I don't think I have this problem, however, whenever I try to write something down and give a good argument, teachers don't seem to like / understand (?) my line of thinking. It seems to me that I prefer structures of thinking that do not align with what is objectively looked for by the teacher, and thus they usually prefer students with a clearer structure and more obvious thoughts. When I was younger I thought I was bad at writing because of this, but now I'm starting to question that. Maybe I'm just misunderstood in writing and overcomplicate my arguments.
I don't really find myself retreating that often.
Originally Posted by fidelia
I solve all of my problems internally. I don't mean that in a selfish way either, but I know personally that nothing and no one is going to solve a problem I'm having. So I go through processes inside and I come to a decision. Sometimes it will take a minute or weeks. Sometimes it's the littlest thing too like do I buy this now or do I buy this later. So there is a process but I come to it individually. I hardly ever reach out to anyone for advice as to what I can do about my own problems I'm having with something.
I guess it's like multitasking? I'll process and do just that -- play games or design. Listen to music. But I'm doing the processing and the hobby at the same time. They kind of go hand in hand especially if I'm being creative.
Tear down? I'm not sure what you're asking, but I find it hard to start from scratch about a lot of things. I'm better at it now because I'm more in the realm of life is too short if I hold on to everything I felt before forever then my whole life will be taken up by the same issue. In short I've taught myself to get over it because people are who they are.
I would love for people to check I'm on me, but no one tends to do that. I'm always the friend or relative that just jumps up to say hi and ask how someone is doing. It makes me feel like I bother people to be honest so now Ive cut way back and force myself to get into a habit of not asking.
I'm nit always upset about it either. At first I used to be really upset that no one checked up on me like I would then, but now I just say you're probably annoying them so don't reach out to them. It's hard though and thr closer I am to peoole the more it's a struggle.
Originally Posted by nightlymajor
I've been told by a friend that I contradict myself and it does offend me.
I think I just try to cover all all areas or several areas which just happen to be outside of the norm.
I look at myself in Fandom for years and years now and it's like I always get caught up in a discussion where I'm trying to get a point across that isn't thr norm and people are just like there is no place for you. I try to cover all areas while voicing my own opinion and it's still not the right thing to do.
The more eccentric and diverse your opinions are, the more society isn't going to like you which is ironic because in a school setting everyone is trying to enforce students to think outside the box and be individual... until someone is and then it's like yeah okay, interesting, who's next?
Just don't stop being who you are. Some people want that. To mold others into something else or something of the norm so they can put a cookie cutter label on you. Pride yourself in your individual thoughts and your ability to be vocal about them.
Sometimes people have the differing thoughts but fall back and fall to the norm to be accepted.
sorry, just a newbie catching up with old gold. have to agree with everything here though I am an E, not INFP. At least, the INFp has the comfort of staying true to their values even at the expense of becoming unpopular. Sometimes, the need for social connections and the temptations of chasing excitement makes your E cousins choose the path of expediency. I wish I had the courage to be a values-driven leader like INFP.
When you are joyous, look deep into your heart and you shall find it is only that which has given you sorrow that is giving you joy.
When you are sorrowful look again in your heart, and you shall see that in truth you are weeping for that which has been your delight.
-Kahlil Gibran in The Prophet
I experience this, too. The question that always derails what I'm saying is when someone says "Well can you give me an example?" Umm. I don't remember? I don't know how to explain to people that I can hold onto the summary of what happened without remembering the actual details and that it isn't just me making stuff up. It's frustrating. I need for people to just let me talk it out until I get what it is out in whatever form it's encoded in my memory as.
Originally Posted by lumi
do you identify emotion as part of your identity or a by-product?
My friend keeps talking about how emotions play such a key role in her everyday decision. I know Fi is not emotion (vice versa) but being at peace with her emotions mean a lot to her.
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