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[NF] Empathy vs. Sympathy

Thalassa

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Don't you all have a thread for this already http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/15249-enfp-s-deep-intense-empathy-gift-curse.html?

It's like there can never be a discussion about anything here without it being dominated by a certain POV. Yall don't ever try to engage or facilitate discussion, never try to ask other people what their processes are, always try to dissect yourselves ad nauseam. There is no dialogue, just a series of people contributing their own monologues, obsessed with their own thoughts and processes and only really trying to talk to other people who process like them who can monologue with them. I don't know how you all think dialogue occurs but it my mind you open up spaces by actively asking and engaging other people to offer input.

This breaks it down better than I can:


That right there is a major component of empathy, in fact it's called empathetic listening. STFU and letting others speak, asking people to share their experiences not asserting the foolishness that was thrown around earlier in this thread. That particular process is called empathetic accuracy, listening to others to make sure your sense of empathy was correct and not some ego-stroke in your head to validate your sense of self and never trying to verify if you were right about what you felt.

Yes, and that's what happens IRL, or in one on one chats...this is an Internet forum where we are debating. I didn't feel like I needed to ask you anything, since you seem pretty darn adept at giving your own monologues. I even mentioned in my last post that empathetic accuracy can only be determined by communicating with the other person.

Do you all ever notice that FJs barely ever participate in such discussions and when they do it tends to be defensively? Why do you think that happens? There certainly are enough thoughtful IxFJs here to make solid contributions. We've had more and more Fe doms show up, but they don't interject much. And other types barely utter a peep. Why do you all think that is or have you not even noticed it (probably the latter)? Do you notice it and think this is no participation because there is no understanding or ability to relate, which is flat out wrong? I have tried to believe this is not an Fi/Fe thing, but maybe it just is and that's a sad thought to me.

That's why I have my doubts about people's supposed powers of empathy. I don't feel like I have empathy coming back from the majority of NFPs on this forum. Maybe you all feel it with each other, but I don't feel it. And if you can only create an empathetic link with people who are like you and process like you then what kind of empathy is that? I can't speak for other people, so I'll contain this to myself. I don't feel particularly like my POV is understood and thank goodness I'm not looking for it to be validated here...I got over that in 2008.

It sounds to me like you don't like NFPs and you have it in your mind that we're selfish or whatever and don't try to understand us, either. It's BS for you to say we can only form an empathetic link with people who are like us ...maybe that's true for some, but not for all.

I do strongly feel that erroneous and incomplete information needs to be addressed because I hate for misinformation to be spread about like it's fact, which is my stake in this discussion. That's why I brought up the concepts of empathetic accuracy and perceived empathy. To me, not including those ingredients is like trying to bake a cake with no flour, eggs, sugar, butter, and milk and then steadily asserting that what you have in the oven is in fact a cake.

Well thank you for your contributions. I believe you were already thanked and praised for earlier ones, at least until we got to this post.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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Hmmmmm... I would say that Fe seems more like a perceiving function than a judging function, because it depends on what the other person shows. It is almost entirely dependant upon an external source. I.E. what we are taught, or shown to be wrong is what Fe looks towards first before actually checking it's own personal opinion. I think this is why they appear so different even though they are both Judging functions in the context of a theory.

It seems that the problem that is trying to be solved here is how each empathize and sympathize when perhaps it might be better to ask 'Why?' they sympathize and empathize, and perhaps the most distinct differences between the two lie there? Just some thoughts. I didn't read the whole thread so I may be pointing out the known.

This being said the internal feelings (Fi) can only come from an 'I' persepective. They are core values and as I have heard feelings have nuances between them that can only be explained very personally and what better pronoun to use, but 'I'? I think of these functions as stages in a development. The Fi-user (the initiator) will spout it's personal beliefs and then the Fe-user (the connector) will try to come with what they have been taught and if what they have been taught corresponds with what the Fi-user said then the connection is made. If the circuit is completed sparks are made.
 

Thalassa

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Hmmmmm... I would say that Fe seems more like a perceiving function than a judging function, because it depends on what the other person shows. It is almost entirely dependant upon an external source. I.E. what we are taught, or shown to be wrong is what Fe looks towards first before actually checking it's own personal opinion. I think this is why they appear so different even though they are both Judging functions in the context of a theory.

No...I really think they're both judging functions...and therein lies the conflict on this forum.

It seems that the problem that is trying to be solved here is how each empathize and sympathize when perhaps it might be better to ask 'Why?' they sympathize and empathize, and perhaps the most distinct differences between the two lie there? Just some thoughts. I didn't read the whole thread so I may be pointing out the known.

Yeah good point.

This being said the internal feelings (Fi) can only come from an 'I' persepective. They are core values and as I have heard feelings have nuances between them that can only be explained very personally and what better pronoun to use, but 'I'? I think of these functions as stages in a development. The Fi-user (the initiator) will spout it's personal beliefs and then the Fe-user (the connector) will try to come with what they have been taught and if what they have been taught corresponds with what the Fi-user said then the connection is made. If the circuit is completed sparks are made.

I don't know, I've gotten along extremely well with some Fe people IRL, and some of them on here as well. I think personal beliefs vs. what they've been taught is oversimplifying. I'm quite sure more goes into Fe than what it's been taught, and even as an Fi user I know that I was taught some of my values. I do think you have a point though that often people with Fi use "I" because they feel that they can only speak for themselves, and that trying to speak for a group is controlling or wrong or at least inaccurate. That's not always the case though.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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No...I really think they're both judging functions...and therein lies the conflict on this forum.



Yeah good point.



I don't know, I've gotten along extremely well with some Fe people IRL, and some of them on here as well. I think personal beliefs vs. what they've been taught is oversimplifying. I'm quite sure more goes into Fe than what it's been taught, and even as an Fi user I know that I was taught some of my values. I do think you have a point though that often people with Fi use "I" because they feel that they can only speak for themselves, and that trying to speak for a group is controlling or wrong or at least inaccurate. That's not always the case though.

From this description I think it can be seen as a perceiving function:


["The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The “social graces,” such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along."]

When I read this description (I don't know if this is a good description of it or not) it seems difficult for me to see this as a Judging function. The premise this takes seems more of the opposite. I see almost automatic acceptance of anyone, which I suppose is a judgement, but not judging. I would like to understand this function better if anyone is willing to explain it too me.
 

Thalassa

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From this description I think it can be seen as a perceiving function:


["The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The “social graces,” such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along."]

When I read this description (I don't know if this is a good description of it or not) it seems difficult for me to see this as a Judging function. The premise this takes seems more of the opposite. I see almost automatic acceptance of anyone, which I suppose is a judgement, but not judging. I would like to understand this function better if anyone is willing to explain it too me.

Lulz ...Fe is not automatic acceptance of everyone...if anything, it can kick people out of the group for not playing along...Fe has no problem "nudging" or correcting the behavior of others...Fe is not always about conformity, which is unfortunately a trait that can be unfairly assigned to Fe, but depending on how it is used, Fe can be warm and accepting and wonderful, or it can be judgmental, harsh, controlling, and demand conformity.

Fe, like Fi, is a judging function, just like Te is just as much of a judging function as Ti. The prime difference between Fe/Te and Ti/Fi is formulating judgements and standards from primarily external vs. internal criteria.
 
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ReflecTcelfeR

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I do apologize for my ignorance of Fe. I understand that aspect, I believe. I don't really understand what it does when it is healthy.
 

Thalassa

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I do apologize for my ignorance of Fe. I understand that aspect, I believe. I don't really understand what it does when it is healthy.

When it is healthy, it is exactly as you described...warm, polite, self-disclosing (which is one of the reasons I fail to understand why some Fe users don't relate to Fi self-disclosure when done by extroverted Fi users ...) and trying to tune into the needs of others, creating group harmony, thinking of the greatest maximum positive impact for the largest number of people.

Healthy Fe is wonderful. I love it. I love Fe nurturing, and admire people who use Fe well. I even employ shadow Fe...I have a tendency to laugh when others laugh in some social situations, etc...I don't think that just because someone leads with Fi it means that they don't have any Fe at all, and vice versa.

But to put either Fi or Fe up on a pedastal...Fi as all tolerant, easy going, more passive, letting people do basically whatever they want...or Fe as always being nurturing and warm and "nice" is a huge mistake. They both have their dark side.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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When it is healthy, it is exactly as you described...warm, polite, self-disclosing (which is one of the reasons I fail to understand why some Fe users don't relate to Fi self-disclosure when done by extroverted Fi users ...) and trying to tune into the needs of others, creating group harmony, thinking of the greatest maximum positive impact for the largest number of people.

Healthy Fe is wonderful. I love it. I love Fe nurturing, and admire people who use Fe well. I even employ shadow Fe...I have a tendency to laugh when others laugh in some social situations, etc...I don't think that just because someone leads with Fi it means that they don't have any Fe at all, and vice versa.

But to put either Fi or Fe up on a pedastal...Fi as all tolerant, easy going, more passive, letting people do basically whatever they want...or Fe as always being nurturing and warm and "nice" is a huge mistake. They both have their dark side.

To Fe-users: How do you use Fe effectively? I'm using this thread and a thread I made to understand my Tertiary function better. What does an unhealthy Fi dominant user look like? One of my closer friends is one and I was wondering what signs to look for in him.
 

skylights

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Don't you all have a thread for this already http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/15249-enfp-s-deep-intense-empathy-gift-curse.html?

It's like there can never be a discussion about anything here without it being dominated by a certain POV. Yall don't ever try to engage or facilitate discussion, never try to ask other people what their processes are, always try to dissect yourselves ad nauseam. There is no dialogue, just a series of people contributing their own monologues, obsessed with their own thoughts and processes and only really trying to talk to other people who process like them who can monologue with them. I don't know how you all think dialogue occurs but it my mind you open up spaces by actively asking and engaging other people to offer input.

[...]

That right there is a major component of empathy, in fact it's called empathetic listening. STFU and letting others speak, asking people to share their experiences not asserting the foolishness that was thrown around earlier in this thread. That particular process is called empathetic accuracy, listening to others to make sure your sense of empathy was correct and not some ego-stroke in your head to validate your sense of self and never trying to verify if you were right about what you felt.

edit -- upon review, it's a little annoying that i ended up talking about myself in a response to a post that expresses frustration about NFPs talking about themselves.:laugh:
but it really is an attempt to show how an NFP could completely empathize and not show it. and as for Fe empathizing, this is very much getting into semantics. i think most humans do both empathize and sympathize to a large extent...

proteanmix, you make a good argument for Fe empathizing, but those are such detailed definitions that they almost seem arbitrary to me. overall i thought the point of the empathy/sympathy split was to be a useful generalization, not an exclusive thing. it seems to me that both F functions both empathize and sympathize in a variety of ways, and sometimes those two concepts are not even distinguishable.

i don't think it was anyone's intention to slight you or your type by not taking up your point of view and discussing it in greater depth.


initial post ~~~

hey proteanmix, i just want to say i'm sorry if it seems like NFPs are dominating. i guess i can't speak for everyone, but at least personally, i love hearing from NFJs.

i think the way i have felt, is that an online forum is somewhere where it is okay to ramble on about oneself if one feels like it -- and that really is how ENFPs learn best about ourselves -- sometimes we have to get things out to put them all in sensical order. and we do so very easily get off-topic, because it doesn't really seem all that off-topic to us. it seems related and worthwhile. i also am, very honestly, excited to speak with so many others of my own type, because i really don't know many in real life.

i think that something important is that NFPs seem to have a tendency to show empathy a bit differently than NFJs (and SFJs), which i have learned from being very close with an ENFJ and ESFJ irl. S/NFJs seem a bit more interested in guiding conversation and making things flow smoothly. but to me, baring my soul to another is a show of empathy as well, and the one that comes most naturally. here is me, here is everything i have to offer, here is my open trust and my willingness to share everything with you, if it can be of good to you. it's true that sometimes i can get caught up trying to sort out myself, but i figure that the most i have to give anyone is my self, or at least from my self - after all, what other point of relation do i have? if i do not feel psychologically healthy, then i worry that my interactions with others may be more harmful than beneficial to them. so i see it as important to understand myself too, and to try to cultivate the best self i can have, both for my sake and so that i can be sure that i will continue to contribute to others' lives in a positive way... even if that does take a little self-dissecting -- and a psychology board would seem, to me, a very appropriate place to do this. i don't simply monologue on my own because i do look to others for their opinion and suggestions, and want to offer the same for them -- hence my presence here.

as a relative newcomer i don't really understand the full of what's gone on in the past regarding Fe/Fi, and while reading the old threads is interesting and enlightening, the point of the forum, in my understanding, is to talk things out with others. i do think the nature of Fi - or F with P - leads it to being a bit more self-centered and outwardly passive, and the nature of Fe - or F with J - to be a bit more other-centered and outwardly active. but the point of either Feeling function is connection with and love for others -- so please don't read NFP introspection to be a lack of empathy or a lack of respect for and/or interest in you, or what you have to say. the truth is very much, in fact, the opposite. when i post a long self-analysis on here, it's like what i was saying before -- i share what i can of myself and i figure that anyone can relate to whatever they would like. i almost feel like it's assuming of me to try to direct anyone to which points i'd like them to relate with, or to ask them questions that might feel probing -- but exposing myself demonstrates my trust and allows anyone to connect at will. it's a very passive style of conversation. i do read and think about NFJ posts and am genuinely interested in what everyone of every type has to say (i'm always off reading in the other types' areas because a different POV is so interesting and valuable), but i do feel a reluctance to suggest to others how or when to express themself. i don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, and i figure that if someone has an opinion they want to express, they will express that. to me empathetic listening is letting you speak when you want to, trying to relate with you, and accepting you as you are. my own style is less facilitator and more confidante, because i generally don't have a particular goal in mind when i speak with others, besides understanding and connection. in general, the NFJs i know seem a bit more actively guiding conversation than NFPs -- but i feel like we're trying to ultimately achieve the same goal, which is connection with others and self-understanding.

and i feel like it's good that you pointed out that you're feeling this way. i would not have realized otherwise -- admittedly a lack of awareness on my part. i'll personally try to keep my mind more other-oriented in the future, while surfing the boards, and i hope that any NFJs reading this -- or any type, for that matter -- will take away from this that as an NFP, i love hearing from every type and wholeheartedly encourage everyone to express themselves as they please on the NF boards. i may not always respond directly, but that never means your posts have gone unappreciated.
 
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Glycerine

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No...I really think they're both judging functions...and therein lies the conflict on this forum.



Yeah good point.



I don't know, I've gotten along extremely well with some Fe people IRL, and some of them on here as well. I think personal beliefs vs. what they've been taught is oversimplifying. I'm quite sure more goes into Fe than what it's been taught, and even as an Fi user I know that I was taught some of my values. I do think you have a point though that often people with Fi use "I" because they feel that they can only speak for themselves, and that trying to speak for a group is controlling or wrong or at least inaccurate. That's not always the case though.
Have I ever told you how much I love you? ;)
 
G

Glycerine

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hey proteanmix, i just want to say i'm sorry if it seems like NFPs are dominating. i guess i can't speak for everyone, but at least personally, i love hearing from NFJs.

i think the way i have felt, is that an online forum is somewhere where it is okay to ramble on about oneself if one feels like it -- and that really is how ENFPs learn best about ourselves -- sometimes we have to get things out to put them all in sensical order. and we do so very easily get off-topic, because it doesn't really seem all that off-topic to us. it seems related and worthwhile. i also am, very honestly, excited to speak with so many others of my own type, because i really don't know many in real life.

i think that something very important is that NFPs generally show empathy very differently than NFJs (and SFJs), which i have learned from being very close with an ENFJ (and ESFJ) irl. S/NFJs seem very interested in tending to the other, in being nurturing and fostering discussion and sharing as you mentioned, and i am familiar with how wonderful that can be, having experienced it firsthand as well as slowly and clumsily attempting to cultivate that ability in myself. but to me, baring my soul to another is a show of empathy as well, and the one that comes most naturally. here is me, here is everything i have to offer, here is my open trust and my willingness to share everything with you, if it can be of good to you. it's true that sometimes i can get caught up trying to sort out myself, but i figure that the most i have to give anyone is my self, or at least from my self - after all, what other point of relation do i have? if i do not feel psychologically healthy, then i worry that my interactions with others may be more harmful than beneficial to them. so i see it as important to understand myself too, and to try to cultivate the best self i can have, both for my sake and so that i can be sure that i will continue to contribute to others' lives in a positive way... even if that does take a little self-dissecting -- and a psychology board would seem, to me, a very appropriate place to do this. i don't simply monologue on my own because i do look to others for their opinion and suggestions, and want to offer the same for them -- hence my presence here.

as a relative newcomer i don't really understand the full of what's gone on in the past regarding Fe/Fi, and while reading the old threads is interesting and enlightening, the point of the forum, in my understanding, is to talk things out with others. i do think the nature of Fi - or F with P - leads it to being more self-centered, and the nature of Fe - or F with J - to be more other-centered. but the point of either Feeling function is connection with and love for others -- so please don't read NFP introspection to be a lack of empathy or a lack of respect for and/or interest in you, or what you have to say. the truth is very much, in fact, the opposite. when i post a long self-analysis on here, it's like what i was saying before -- i share what i can of myself and i figure that anyone can relate to whatever they would like. i almost feel like it's assuming of me to try to direct anyone to which points i'd like them to relate with, or to ask them questions that might feel probing -- but exposing myself demonstrates my trust and allows anyone to connect at will. i think this is the more passive style of NFP versus the more active style of NFJ... and NFP not wanting to impose can read as lack of interest. i do read and think about NFJ posts and am genuinely interested in what everyone of every type has to say (i'm always off reading in the other types' areas because a different POV is so interesting and valuable), but my seeming lack of encouragement is really a reluctance to direct anyone in how or when to express themself. i don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, and i figure that if someone has an opinion they want to express, they will express that. to me empathetic listening is letting you speak when you want to, trying to relate with you, and accepting you as you are. my own style is less facilitator and more confidante, because i generally don't have a particular goal in mind when i speak with others, besides understanding and connection. this is not at all to say that NFJs do direct, or impose, or even come to a conversation with a particular goal in mind; it's simply that your style seems generally much more active than mine -- but i do feel like we're trying to ultimately achieve the same goal, which is connection with others and self-understanding... exactly what the MBTI was created for.

finally -- thank you for pointing out that you're feeling this way. i would not have realized otherwise -- admittedly a lack of awareness on my part. i'll personally try to keep my mind more other-oriented in the future, while surfing the boards, and i hope that any NFJs reading this -- or any type, for that matter -- will take away from this that as a representative NFP, i love hearing from every type and wholeheartedly encourage everyone to express themselves as they please on the NF boards. i may not always respond directly, but that never means your posts have gone unappreciated.
Nah. It seems to me that you think you might be coming off as inconsiderate to NFJs but to me, you are very considerate in your posts and that you are coming from a standpoint of pure curiosity rather having an axe to grind with NFJs. :D One think to note though that I have noticed about your posts is that you seem to be trying to divide the behavior cleanly into NFPs and NFJs when in reality, much of it can actually be very fuzzy. Overall, I enjoy reading your posts! Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to downplay Protean's potential perspective. :doh:
 

William K

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One think to note though that I have noticed about your posts is that you seem to be trying to divide the behavior cleanly into NFPs and NFJs when in reality, much of it can actually be very fuzzy.

Yeah, reading the 4 Common xNFx Issues threads, you can see overlaps. Was thinking of doing a Common NF Issues thread to try and map the issues but my P wouldn't let me after the initial burst of enthusiasm :D
 

skylights

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Nah. It seems to me that you think you might be coming off as inconsiderate to NFJs but to me, you are very considerate in your posts and that you are coming from a standpoint of pure curiosity rather having an axe to grind with NFJs. :D One think to note though that I have noticed about your posts is that you seem to be trying to divide the behavior cleanly into NFPs and NFJs when in reality, much of it can actually be very fuzzy. Overall, I enjoy reading your posts! Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to downplay Protean's potential perspective. :doh:

haha well that's good to hear :)

huh, about me seeming divisive, excellent point. i think because i see EVERYTHING as being fuzzy, i really like to play categorization. Te, i guess? it makes my brain hurt less if i can put things in relative places to understand them - but it's more like a hobby than anything, because in my mind, i never make things exclusive (eg, "Fe = sympathizing" meaning Fe can never do anything but sympathize)... more like that squiggly equals sign, you know? "Fe is approximately sympathizing", lol. i just think it makes things easier for me to grasp/remember amidst the Ne chaos if i simplify, hence the seeming affection for black-and-whiteness. i guess i assumed it was the same for everyone - i never really even thought about it like that. seriously thank you for pointing this out, it'll be useful to be aware of that potential appearance in the future. :yes:

and yes, for sure, all F types seem to empathize and sympathize regularly. plus some situations call for one or the other more, and most healthy F types seem to recognize that. oh lord i should edit my previous post to note this stuff lol

i wasn't trying to like... divide camps or anything o_O; actually it's almost funny to me it could be taken that way because that's so completely not my personality. i can't even manage to stay annoyed at anyone irl for more than a couple hours, much less would i want to cause a turf war on a web forum... apparently the ENFP chameleon strikes again :doh:
 
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Glycerine

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haha well that's good to hear :)

huh, about me seeming divisive, excellent point. i think because i see EVERYTHING as being fuzzy, i really like to play categorization. Te, i guess? it makes my brain hurt less if i can put things in relative places to understand them - but it's more like a hobby than anything, because in my mind, i never make things exclusive (eg, "Fe = sympathizing" meaning Fe can never do anything but sympathize)... more like that squiggly equals sign, you know? "Fe is approximately sympathizing", lol. i just think it makes things easier for me to grasp/remember amidst the Ne chaos if i simplify, hence the seeming affection for black-and-whiteness. i guess i assumed it was the same for everyone - i never really even thought about it like that. seriously thank you for pointing this out, it'll be useful to be aware of that potential appearance in the future. :yes:

and yes, for sure, all F types seem to empathize and sympathize regularly. plus some situations call for one or the other more, and most healthy F types seem to recognize that. oh lord i should edit my previous post to note this stuff lol

i wasn't trying to like... divide camps or anything o_O; actually it's almost funny to me it could be taken that way because that's so completely against what i am. i can't even manage to stay annoyed at anyone irl for more than a couple hours, much less would i want to cause a turf war on a web forum...
It's all good. It didn't seem like you were purposely dividing camps or anything and I would definitely not hold it against you... you seem rather chill. I think almost all of us (including me) tend to that on this site since it's about categorizing people.... :)
 

skylights

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It's all good. It didn't seem like you were purposely dividing camps or anything and I would definitely not hold it against you... you seem rather chill. I think almost all of us (including me) tend to that on this site since it's about categorizing people.... :)

lol exactly
 

sculpting

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haha well that's good to hear :)

huh, about me seeming divisive, excellent point. i think because i see EVERYTHING as being fuzzy, i really like to play categorization. Te, i guess? it makes my brain hurt less if i can put things in relative places to understand them - but it's more like a hobby than anything, because in my mind, i never make things exclusive (eg, "Fe = sympathizing" meaning Fe can never do anything but sympathize)... more like that squiggly equals sign, you know? "Fe is approximately sympathizing", lol. i just think it makes things easier for me to grasp/remember amidst the Ne chaos if i simplify, hence the seeming affection for black-and-whiteness. i guess i assumed it was the same for everyone - i never really even thought about it like that. seriously thank you for pointing this out, it'll be useful to be aware of that potential appearance in the future. :yes:

Sjylights might I say your mind is beautiful??? :)

Te is our "relief function". Now lots of ENFPs do every logical jobs such as engineering and science and upper corporate management, so make no mistake that we can use Te very logically to very good aims.

But we aslo use Te to "play". I come up with new ideas everyday, new connections, new views everyday and spew them out endlessly all over the poor forum. It is all PLAY! I feel a sense of childlike wonder when I do this..."ohhh, look at this neat new pattern I found...isnt it cool?" and want to share and toss it back and forth with other people...but it can look really serious on the surface. But the whole time I know it can never be totally correct...as I am missing data..

When I get SERIOUS, and really need to solve a people problem, well that's when I recognize that the neat little boxes I play with really cant fully describe the person in front of me...I have to use Fi.

Te/Ti needs facts...precision...logic? Fi and Fe are different in that they can take in really complex situations-like a human being in a social enviornment and do massively complex, very fuzzy analysis to find the real answer. It gets really muddy, really fuzzy, really complex, but I'd suggest that is why Fe/Fi evolved.

I'd also suggest that Fe and Fi are what allow us to move past all of our inherent limitations (the FeTi/FiTe communication barriers) as the feeling functions strive for some sort of empathic/sympathetic connection-thus can consciously or subconsciously ignore all of the weirdness and just keep on truckin.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Empathy is the capacity to understand, project yourself in the same position and truly feel the situation of the other.

Sympathy is evoked when one doesn't presume to truly understand, but just feel bad/sorry for the "victim"
 
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