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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    Have I ever told you how much I love you?
    I love you too!

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    hey proteanmix, i just want to say i'm sorry if it seems like NFPs are dominating. i guess i can't speak for everyone, but at least personally, i love hearing from NFJs.

    i think the way i have felt, is that an online forum is somewhere where it is okay to ramble on about oneself if one feels like it -- and that really is how ENFPs learn best about ourselves -- sometimes we have to get things out to put them all in sensical order. and we do so very easily get off-topic, because it doesn't really seem all that off-topic to us. it seems related and worthwhile. i also am, very honestly, excited to speak with so many others of my own type, because i really don't know many in real life.

    i think that something very important is that NFPs generally show empathy very differently than NFJs (and SFJs), which i have learned from being very close with an ENFJ (and ESFJ) irl. S/NFJs seem very interested in tending to the other, in being nurturing and fostering discussion and sharing as you mentioned, and i am familiar with how wonderful that can be, having experienced it firsthand as well as slowly and clumsily attempting to cultivate that ability in myself. but to me, baring my soul to another is a show of empathy as well, and the one that comes most naturally. here is me, here is everything i have to offer, here is my open trust and my willingness to share everything with you, if it can be of good to you. it's true that sometimes i can get caught up trying to sort out myself, but i figure that the most i have to give anyone is my self, or at least from my self - after all, what other point of relation do i have? if i do not feel psychologically healthy, then i worry that my interactions with others may be more harmful than beneficial to them. so i see it as important to understand myself too, and to try to cultivate the best self i can have, both for my sake and so that i can be sure that i will continue to contribute to others' lives in a positive way... even if that does take a little self-dissecting -- and a psychology board would seem, to me, a very appropriate place to do this. i don't simply monologue on my own because i do look to others for their opinion and suggestions, and want to offer the same for them -- hence my presence here.

    as a relative newcomer i don't really understand the full of what's gone on in the past regarding Fe/Fi, and while reading the old threads is interesting and enlightening, the point of the forum, in my understanding, is to talk things out with others. i do think the nature of Fi - or F with P - leads it to being more self-centered, and the nature of Fe - or F with J - to be more other-centered. but the point of either Feeling function is connection with and love for others -- so please don't read NFP introspection to be a lack of empathy or a lack of respect for and/or interest in you, or what you have to say. the truth is very much, in fact, the opposite. when i post a long self-analysis on here, it's like what i was saying before -- i share what i can of myself and i figure that anyone can relate to whatever they would like. i almost feel like it's assuming of me to try to direct anyone to which points i'd like them to relate with, or to ask them questions that might feel probing -- but exposing myself demonstrates my trust and allows anyone to connect at will. i think this is the more passive style of NFP versus the more active style of NFJ... and NFP not wanting to impose can read as lack of interest. i do read and think about NFJ posts and am genuinely interested in what everyone of every type has to say (i'm always off reading in the other types' areas because a different POV is so interesting and valuable), but my seeming lack of encouragement is really a reluctance to direct anyone in how or when to express themself. i don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, and i figure that if someone has an opinion they want to express, they will express that. to me empathetic listening is letting you speak when you want to, trying to relate with you, and accepting you as you are. my own style is less facilitator and more confidante, because i generally don't have a particular goal in mind when i speak with others, besides understanding and connection. this is not at all to say that NFJs do direct, or impose, or even come to a conversation with a particular goal in mind; it's simply that your style seems generally much more active than mine -- but i do feel like we're trying to ultimately achieve the same goal, which is connection with others and self-understanding... exactly what the MBTI was created for.

    finally -- thank you for pointing out that you're feeling this way. i would not have realized otherwise -- admittedly a lack of awareness on my part. i'll personally try to keep my mind more other-oriented in the future, while surfing the boards, and i hope that any NFJs reading this -- or any type, for that matter -- will take away from this that as a representative NFP, i love hearing from every type and wholeheartedly encourage everyone to express themselves as they please on the NF boards. i may not always respond directly, but that never means your posts have gone unappreciated.
    Nah. It seems to me that you think you might be coming off as inconsiderate to NFJs but to me, you are very considerate in your posts and that you are coming from a standpoint of pure curiosity rather having an axe to grind with NFJs. One think to note though that I have noticed about your posts is that you seem to be trying to divide the behavior cleanly into NFPs and NFJs when in reality, much of it can actually be very fuzzy. Overall, I enjoy reading your posts! Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to downplay Protean's potential perspective.

  3. #73
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    One think to note though that I have noticed about your posts is that you seem to be trying to divide the behavior cleanly into NFPs and NFJs when in reality, much of it can actually be very fuzzy.
    Yeah, reading the 4 Common xNFx Issues threads, you can see overlaps. Was thinking of doing a Common NF Issues thread to try and map the issues but my P wouldn't let me after the initial burst of enthusiasm
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

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  4. #74
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    Nah. It seems to me that you think you might be coming off as inconsiderate to NFJs but to me, you are very considerate in your posts and that you are coming from a standpoint of pure curiosity rather having an axe to grind with NFJs. One think to note though that I have noticed about your posts is that you seem to be trying to divide the behavior cleanly into NFPs and NFJs when in reality, much of it can actually be very fuzzy. Overall, I enjoy reading your posts! Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to downplay Protean's potential perspective.
    haha well that's good to hear

    huh, about me seeming divisive, excellent point. i think because i see EVERYTHING as being fuzzy, i really like to play categorization. Te, i guess? it makes my brain hurt less if i can put things in relative places to understand them - but it's more like a hobby than anything, because in my mind, i never make things exclusive (eg, "Fe = sympathizing" meaning Fe can never do anything but sympathize)... more like that squiggly equals sign, you know? "Fe is approximately sympathizing", lol. i just think it makes things easier for me to grasp/remember amidst the Ne chaos if i simplify, hence the seeming affection for black-and-whiteness. i guess i assumed it was the same for everyone - i never really even thought about it like that. seriously thank you for pointing this out, it'll be useful to be aware of that potential appearance in the future.

    and yes, for sure, all F types seem to empathize and sympathize regularly. plus some situations call for one or the other more, and most healthy F types seem to recognize that. oh lord i should edit my previous post to note this stuff lol

    i wasn't trying to like... divide camps or anything O_o; actually it's almost funny to me it could be taken that way because that's so completely not my personality. i can't even manage to stay annoyed at anyone irl for more than a couple hours, much less would i want to cause a turf war on a web forum... apparently the ENFP chameleon strikes again

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    haha well that's good to hear

    huh, about me seeming divisive, excellent point. i think because i see EVERYTHING as being fuzzy, i really like to play categorization. Te, i guess? it makes my brain hurt less if i can put things in relative places to understand them - but it's more like a hobby than anything, because in my mind, i never make things exclusive (eg, "Fe = sympathizing" meaning Fe can never do anything but sympathize)... more like that squiggly equals sign, you know? "Fe is approximately sympathizing", lol. i just think it makes things easier for me to grasp/remember amidst the Ne chaos if i simplify, hence the seeming affection for black-and-whiteness. i guess i assumed it was the same for everyone - i never really even thought about it like that. seriously thank you for pointing this out, it'll be useful to be aware of that potential appearance in the future.

    and yes, for sure, all F types seem to empathize and sympathize regularly. plus some situations call for one or the other more, and most healthy F types seem to recognize that. oh lord i should edit my previous post to note this stuff lol

    i wasn't trying to like... divide camps or anything O_o; actually it's almost funny to me it could be taken that way because that's so completely against what i am. i can't even manage to stay annoyed at anyone irl for more than a couple hours, much less would i want to cause a turf war on a web forum...
    It's all good. It didn't seem like you were purposely dividing camps or anything and I would definitely not hold it against you... you seem rather chill. I think almost all of us (including me) tend to that on this site since it's about categorizing people....

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    It's all good. It didn't seem like you were purposely dividing camps or anything and I would definitely not hold it against you... you seem rather chill. I think almost all of us (including me) tend to that on this site since it's about categorizing people....
    lol exactly

  7. #77
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    haha well that's good to hear

    huh, about me seeming divisive, excellent point. i think because i see EVERYTHING as being fuzzy, i really like to play categorization. Te, i guess? it makes my brain hurt less if i can put things in relative places to understand them - but it's more like a hobby than anything, because in my mind, i never make things exclusive (eg, "Fe = sympathizing" meaning Fe can never do anything but sympathize)... more like that squiggly equals sign, you know? "Fe is approximately sympathizing", lol. i just think it makes things easier for me to grasp/remember amidst the Ne chaos if i simplify, hence the seeming affection for black-and-whiteness. i guess i assumed it was the same for everyone - i never really even thought about it like that. seriously thank you for pointing this out, it'll be useful to be aware of that potential appearance in the future.
    Sjylights might I say your mind is beautiful???

    Te is our "relief function". Now lots of ENFPs do every logical jobs such as engineering and science and upper corporate management, so make no mistake that we can use Te very logically to very good aims.

    But we aslo use Te to "play". I come up with new ideas everyday, new connections, new views everyday and spew them out endlessly all over the poor forum. It is all PLAY! I feel a sense of childlike wonder when I do this..."ohhh, look at this neat new pattern I found...isnt it cool?" and want to share and toss it back and forth with other people...but it can look really serious on the surface. But the whole time I know it can never be totally correct...as I am missing data..

    When I get SERIOUS, and really need to solve a people problem, well that's when I recognize that the neat little boxes I play with really cant fully describe the person in front of me...I have to use Fi.

    Te/Ti needs facts...precision...logic? Fi and Fe are different in that they can take in really complex situations-like a human being in a social enviornment and do massively complex, very fuzzy analysis to find the real answer. It gets really muddy, really fuzzy, really complex, but I'd suggest that is why Fe/Fi evolved.

    I'd also suggest that Fe and Fi are what allow us to move past all of our inherent limitations (the FeTi/FiTe communication barriers) as the feeling functions strive for some sort of empathic/sympathetic connection-thus can consciously or subconsciously ignore all of the weirdness and just keep on truckin.

  8. #78
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    Empathy is the capacity to understand, project yourself in the same position and truly feel the situation of the other.

    Sympathy is evoked when one doesn't presume to truly understand, but just feel bad/sorry for the "victim"
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