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[INFP] The bittersweet burden of INFP

stringstheory

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I don't know if I agree with you about good vs bad drugs, AT. I lived on a reserve for several years where most people did drugs to cope with pain and depression and insecurity.

...

By medicating emotional pain even with weed (and honestly I don't know anyone taking weed that is not taking it for those reasons)

I just had to point this out, but maybe this is why?

i think I see what you are saying (that the issue is not necessarily the drug, it's WHY it is being used.) and I totally agree, but this is just me merging these two topics so I'm just sort of emotionally going off of what you wrote so :)

i really don't see why some drugs are "bad" when there are plenty of socially acceptable prescription drugs that have the same or similar effects. I see people using the word "numb" to describe how they feel with marijuana but it's interesting to me since I really find that marijuana does the same thing that my prescription mood stabilizers do. In fact, low doses of both work fantastically. Why one makes you "numb" and the other "stable" i don't understand. Especially since I sort of see mental illness as going both ways sometimes. Is it always something that's necessarily wrong with ME and my mind and my processes, or is it that the outside world that's all fucked up too? If so then well, no wonder it's hard to cope with sometimes!! I really resonated with what 21% posted earlier, it's just the pain of being.

I often feel the way the OP described; an overwhelming Fi. I've had similar experiences to all of the examples given in the OP. The worst for me is advertising, especially when I perceive it as really manipulating me emotionally and it get me to go back to a "place" i only truly experienced as a child. My roommate bought me a bottle of water the other day and the brand name was something like "Smiley Springs" or something like that and all these little smiley faces and children playing in a forest stream. I wasn't in a bad mood or anything, but I felt that to a certain degree I saw what they were trying to do and damnit, it was actually working. It got me very emotional and I didn't even know how to respond to that sort of emotion, and so I simply cried. A lot.

The problem I have is when such strong Fi is paralyzing. And it happens often. A recurring theme of discussion between me and my therapist is how utterly immobilized and defeated I feel knowing that there is literally no alternative to living in a world that, on a grand scale, has such utter disregard for my values and the values of many, many others. I can't just hop onto a ship to another planet where I feel more at home...this is it. My only option is to cope. So what I hold out for is when these same strong emotions are inspiring or energizing..like the ones that make me want to make a career out of assisting others. The way I try to see it is that the pain is just waiting to be focused into energy, constructive or destructive.
 

sui generis

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Psychiatrists are just drug pushers themselves in their own way and do not seek cure of the core problem, rather only to cure the symptoms.

That is a strong case against anti-depressants, I think.

If this thread is going to take this derail, I'm getting out of here. :dont: I honestly, scientifically, think the idea that depression could be an adaptation is interesting. But you know what's a strong case FOR antidepressants, for me personally? That I'm not constantly obsessing about killing myself. That I can get out of bed. That I'm not having weepy-ass mood swings every goddamn day. Medication has produced a definite upgrade over EVERYTHING ELSE I'd tried, and I'd tried pretty much everything. :dont: On meds, I'm not numb, I'm certainly not devoid of emotion, but I'm on a more even keel. I'm sick of hearing that psych drugs are unequivocally awful in every instance. :steam:

I understand the desire to experience your life "in the raw", AT, because I was/am the same way. Just... look out for yourself. Make the right choice for you, whatever that might be.
 

nolla

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If this thread is going to take this derail, I'm getting out of here. :dont: I honestly, scientifically, think the idea that depression could be an adaptation is interesting. But you know what's a strong case FOR antidepressants, for me personally? That I'm not constantly obsessing about killing myself. That I can get out of bed. That I'm not having weepy-ass mood swings every goddamn day. Medication has produced a definite upgrade over EVERYTHING ELSE I'd tried, and I'd tried pretty much everything. :dont: On meds, I'm not numb, I'm certainly not devoid of emotion, but I'm on a more even keel. I'm sick of hearing that psych drugs are unequivocally awful in every instance. :steam:

I do see the point of taking something to not harm yourself or others, and I don't criticize the people on meds, but I do criticize the society not getting enough psychologists out there to take care of the real issue behind that depression. I just will not believe that so many people are born with incurable state of mind that they need to be drugged daily to keep in check. There really must be reasons behind it and they must have a real cure.
 

Arclight

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If this thread is going to take this derail, I'm getting out of here. :dont: I honestly, scientifically, think the idea that depression could be an adaptation is interesting. But you know what's a strong case FOR antidepressants, for me personally? That I'm not constantly obsessing about killing myself. That I can get out of bed. That I'm not having weepy-ass mood swings every goddamn day. Medication has produced a definite upgrade over EVERYTHING ELSE I'd tried, and I'd tried pretty much everything. :dont: On meds, I'm not numb, I'm certainly not devoid of emotion, but I'm on a more even keel. I'm sick of hearing that psych drugs are unequivocally awful in every instance. :steam:

I understand the desire to experience your life "in the raw", AT, because I was/am the same way. Just... look out for yourself. Make the right choice for you, whatever that might be.

Good for you!!!

Some people have chemical imbalances and mental issues.

Some people have emotional issues.

2 different cures for 2 different problems.
 

Abstract Thinker

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If you are a daily weed smoker and you lay off that.. Be prepared for a few things.

Not daily any more. I "waked and baked" all through my twenties and most of my thirties, but it got to be too much "work" to stay focused as my career path gave me more responsibilities. And I'm very good at what I do. :) Now it's just a now-and-then treat. Ah, Mother Weed. :wubbie:

The Nightmares. ... They are vivid, intense and very emotional. In my case, rather Intuitive.

Okay, here's something else I've kept to myself all these years: When I weened myself off of Crystal Meth three years ago, I had recurring dreams about it. In my dreams... I would be going to get it. I would be lighting the pipe. I would see that little puddle of goo forming in the bowl, and that little wisp of devilish vapor forming. I would be cutting a line. But I never actually got to DO the drug. I would always wake up first... frustrated, but happy I was off the stuff. I sincerely think those dreams were part of my healing and recovery. Haven't touched it since.

And just last night, I had a similar dream about Crack. Except this time I was given the chance to do it. Those lovely rox were RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, and I said NO. And I left the trap house, and I promptly woke up, sobbing. God it haunts me, but again, I believe that's part of the healing. Man, that's a hard one to kick, but I'm doing it. It's been a year, this past July 4th. God what an awful night that was, July 4th, 2009. I will NEVER admit what I did that night, but suffice it to say, it woke me up. :cry:

Hey you Psych Pros out there: is that meaningful (the dreams)? Documented? Or am I the only one?

Go find a counselor or a Psychologist .. Psychiatrists are just drug pushers themselves in their own way and do not seek cure of the core problem, rather only to cure the symptoms.

I was at GWU emergency room for a panic attack I couldn't "walk off" last weekend, and they gave me a ten-day supply of Klonopin. I've been off them for a while, but why fight it? They are magic. And they're already gone. :cry:

Heck, it took two Attivans and a Valium just to bring me back. The good news is that they did an EKG and checked my lungs, and they said I'm healthy as a horse. :) Nothin like those Hillbilly/Cherokee genes. I'm lucky that way. Physically tough. :workout: So... NOW is the time to quit smoking cigarettes, right? BEFORE it's too late. :shock:

Anyway, I'm gonna see a Psychiatrist they referred me to, to get Klonnies, Chantix (to quit smoking), and maybe even Lexapro (anti-depressant + anti-anxiety in one pill), and THEN I'm gonna ask for a Psychologist. I hate to intrude (like all INFPs), but that's what they are there for, right? And I've learned on this forum that therapists are as turned on by helping people as I am by making video and music with my Mac. Duh. :doh: So I'm gonna do it.
 

runvardh

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Dreams come from your subconscious and even research has shown that it is some sort of mental defrag process.
 

Abstract Thinker

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Dreams come from your subconscious and even research has shown that it is some sort of mental defrag process.

I hope that means what I think it does... that I am recovering from that awful addiction. :cry: After all, I did say NO to the rox in my dream, which I NEVER did IRL. At least not yet -- haven't had the chance. Haven't put myself in that predicament.

Anyway, thanks, runvardh. You rock. :hug:
 

musicnerd93

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Meds do more harm than good, IMO. I've seen people put on meds for things like ADHD and depression and really all it seems to do is make them more depressed. Really sad. :cry: Things like depression need to be confronted by talking about what's bothering you and trying to help. But, that's just my opinion.

Abstract Thinker- If Steven Tyler from Aerosmith can drop heroin and never go back to it, then I'm sure with great strength and dedication, you will be able to overcome your addictions as well. :) We're rooting for you. Keep the faith, man!
 

Abstract Thinker

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Meds do more harm than good, IMO. I've seen people put on meds for things like ADHD and depression and really all it seems to do is make them more depressed. Really sad. :cry: Things like depression need to be confronted by talking about what's bothering you and trying to help. But, that's just my opinion.

Abstract Thinker- If Steven Tyler from Aerosmith can drop heroin and never go back to it, then I'm sure with great strength and dedication, you will be able to overcome your addictions as well. :) We're rooting for you. Keep the faith, man!

Nothin but love for ya, my brand new friend. Thanks. :wubbie:
 

runvardh

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I hope that means what I think it does... that I am recovering from that awful addiction. :cry: After all, I did say NO to the rox in my dream, which I NEVER did IRL. At least not yet -- haven't had the chance. Haven't put myself in that predicament.

Anyway, thanks, runvardh. You rock. :hug:

In reality, whether or not you're recovering would require deeper self-analysis. The dreams just mean it's on your mind whether or not you think about out consciously.
 

Abstract Thinker

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In reality, whether or not you're recovering would require deeper self-analysis. The dreams just mean it's on your mind whether or not you think about out consciously.

Oh, I'm recovering. If I wasn't, I would probably not have a job or a computer to post on this board with.

And of course I'm thinking about it... consciously and subconsciously. It's just so powerful. I think about it every day, but less often than I did a year ago. It used to be constant, and completely distracting.

Now I just wake up every day and say "not today." And then I string those days together, and it's been over a year of those days. Eventually I'll stop dreaming about it, and even thinking about it, just like I have stopped dreaming and thinking about meth. This one's gonna take longer though. It's just that powerful.

I almost caved in this weekend for some reason, but this forum was a large part of why I didn't. And I feel even stronger now.
 

Fidelia

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Just checked back in here again. First of all, AT, I want to say that I'm so glad that you didn't end up giving in to that addiction again. This is one of the reasons that I like this forum. We as humans are all designed to impact and be impacted by those around us. Many people find themselves feeling isolated and alone and without enough support system at various points in their lives. An online community is one way that you can get some support, especially if you are new somewhere, and the potential for our shared experiences and help to impact each other positively is huge.

You asked what I thought about therapy and meds vs therapy alone. I know some people who have needed medication because they lack the will to keep going. Life just seems like too big of a struggle. In that case, I think sometimes there is a use for something to help dull those emotions enough that they can start regaining perspective.

Just as our brains and body numbs us out temporarily when something bad happens (after a sudden death of someone close to us, an accident etc), numbing medication is meant to be temporary. I think it's possible that some people have a chemical imbalance that's causing problems and in those cases I guess medication is useful. However, for most people suffering from depression, it is caused by being in an impossible situation. Like a physical injury, that kind of stuff needs active treatment and then time to recover.

The literature seems to indicate that depression often takes the same amount of time to recover from whether people are on meds enough. There are enough downsides to many meds that I would be reluctant to take them unless it was absolutely necessary.

Probably what is more therapeutic are activities that will help re-energize you and help you see the world from another perspective (exercise etc), exposure to uplifting or useful thoughts (reading), looking back at what brought you to that impossible situation in the first case to try to address the root cause, and building a support system of people around you.

Are there some things that you've said were fine in the past, but that are impacting you more seriously than you thought? Those might be worth talking about to someone so that they can be laid to rest and don't follow you into your future.
 

Abstract Thinker

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So what is your creative outlet, Abstract Thinker?

I used to write and produce music, and my ex-wife sang for me. I also mixed and mastered a bunch of music for other musicians - I could have easily made a career out of that. I'm quite good at it. Audio production just comes easy to me. I worked in a recording studio on and off from 1983 to 2000, but all of my music was done in our home studio. If you've seen pix of Halla's, it was a lot like that.

One note of pride: I produced a House Track for a British musician in 2001. He flew over to the States and stayed with us while I arranged, mixed, and mastered his track. He wrote it, mind you... I just brought it to fruition and made it sound good. Most musicians cannot do that. That's what a Producer is. When it was finished, we sent the master over to Abbey Road in London where they had planned to re-master it for vinyl. Well, they called us and told us that mine was the first master they had ever received that they didn't have to touch.

I celebrated by getting high, and staying that way for a week or so. I guess you're getting the picture of how I handled my musical successes.

Incidentally, it ended up selling several hundred thousand copies and was featured on many mix CDs by some of the world's biggest DJs. I didn't get royalties, but I was paid pretty well for the production.

Anyway, I published a couple House tracks of my own and sold a lot of vinyl, but not enough to quit my day job at the studio. We were working on an album, performed some great live shows, and had the beginnings of industry interest.

So I got high even more to celebrate. See the pattern? What an asshole I was.

Truth is, I let the drugs ruin my life-long dream, and I let them ruin my marriage. I blame no one but myself.

That failure will be my biggest regret. It broke my heart, and I just can't do it any more, although Halla is helping me to maybe believe I can. I really do love that guy. We're all lucky to have him here.

So, to answer your question... no creative outlet. It all went up in smoke.

---

In case anyone's interested, here's a link to some of our music: Tech23 Music

This isn't the vinyl stuff. This is the album we never finished. It's all at least ten years old, and some of it's even older. It's certainly not for everybody, but a lot of people liked it.
 

runvardh

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You may want to work your way back into having a creative outlet and trying not to celebrate using substances as there are many other ways.

That said, I'm still working on that myself, only with out the drug worries.
 

Abstract Thinker

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You may want to work your way back into having a creative outlet and trying not to celebrate using substances as there are many other ways.

That said, I'm still working on that myself, only with out the drug worries.

I sincerely wish you luck.

It might be too late for me. I can live with it though. I have a great job and a lot of people who love me. And believe it or not, I have my health.
 

Abstract Thinker

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Are there some things that you've said were fine in the past, but that are impacting you more seriously than you thought? Those might be worth talking about to someone so that they can be laid to rest and don't follow you into your future.

Yes, I'm sure you're right. As I said earlier, I am seeking a therapist for the first time in my life.

Funny, as much as I appreciate all the support and well wishes I've received, (in this thread and in private), I'm really starting to feel embarrassed about all this attention.

I started off musing about my INFP-ness, and I'm now realizing just how unhealthy I really am.

I'm not complaining though. Please don't see it that way. Maybe this thread, and the way I've felt the last few days, are the mystical reason I joined this forum, which happens to be my first social network ever.

I've never even talked about this stuff except to the people who were there when it happened.

If nothing else, maybe some of our younger members will read this story, take it to heart, and avoid the mistakes I made.
 
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