I love Alice Miller... I started reading "For Your Own Good", but it was just so saddening.
I haven't read that one yet. I actually avoided the books about narcissistic mothers for quite awhile and a lot of it still is very painful to read. It's that thing where you finally figure out what's been messed up the whole time and you feel amazing relief, but at the same time there is that deep sadness upon accepting the truth. That seems a common thread with DoNMs.
It is really striking to me that part of your healing process has to do with confronting and dealing with her. I just pulled an "INFJ doorslam" on my parents, so it's hard to imagine talking to them -- but for you, talking to your mother, even without her changing is helpful.
I completely understand why you would slam the door. Talking to narcissists really can be an exercise in both futility and going nuts at the same time, I'm sure you know what I mean. I've gone no-contact with a couple of family members on my mother's side (like I said, father was absentee so that side doesn't come into play) but it has sort of been their doing (Meaning, they got mad about something and cut me off expecting me to come crawling with the apology, which won't happen this time).
Talking to my mother can drive me nuts at times because she truly has that skewed, "I'll make it up as I go along so I always come out the innocent one" logic. That seems to go with the territory, doesn't it? I guess over the years I've grown more cemented into what I know to be the truth. I remember neighbors taking care of me as a child, many times I was locked out of the house with my mother nowhere to be found and I'd end up at someone else's place. For years I really thought this was normal and nothing big because my mother acted that way. Then, around 26 or so I realized "No, that is MESSED UP". It's one of those weird things that outsiders can't believe I would ever doubt, they have no idea how good narcissists can be at messing with your head and convincing you that you're just crazy to think something is wrong.
For me, I just needed to tell her my side without letting her invalidate me. It's HARD and most of the time I still feel that instant guilt like I'm doing something wrong but when I get distance, I feel a sense of catharsis having said my peace even if it will never mean anything to her. More and more I'm accepting she is who she is and she will never change, but more and more I'm getting better at not letting her victimize me or convince me I'm screwed up and everything bad is my fault, etc.
I might go no-contact once I'm on my own again, I'm not sure. It will depend on how she acts when I leave (as you know, their tactics change when their 'narcissistic supply' is taken away).
I think it's good you've cut them off, I know that even though we might KNOW they're toxic, they're still our parents and it's excruciating having to do it even if it's for the better in the long run. So I honestly give you a massive pat on the back for doing the right thing for yourself, I know that can be the hardest thing ever for us kids of NPD parents.
It's also very informative to me that your ex-husband and other NPDs blamed/vilified you. My parents did the same thing after I cut them off -- they told ALL our relatives what victims they were, refusing to see their role (and they had just created such an awful, dramatic scene at my wedding
They LOVE vilifying, don't they? I'm not playing innocent, that was one of those learned behaviors I used to perpetrate myself and had to train myself to break out of (Thank you cognitive therapy!). They're amazing at it too. I know I never see it coming and I'm always amazed at the groundwork they lay ahead of time. My ex had a habit of staying very quiet and making sure his friends and family knew very little about our relationship. Not just keeping our choices as a couple private and all that, but he rarely shared ANYTHING like normal people do. So by the end, he was pretty much free to paint me as whatever he wanted to.
You know what blew my mind the most? He would be on the phone with me during the divorce and the new girlfriend would be in the background coughing and stuff. I knew he had me on speaker phone. He'd blatantly LIE to me about something I did, like "How about we talk about that time you punched me?" and I was like "What the hell are you talking about?". Meanwhile, he KNEW the girlfriend would be thinking "He wouldn't confront her directly if it was a lie", you know what I mean? It made me want to scream because he knew damn well that so much of someone's belief depends on perception. That kind of stuff killed me and I just stopped taking his calls. Naturally, he used this to say I was purposely being difficult for no reason, slowing down the divorce because I was bitter, etc. There is no way to win with someone who behaves that way.
It's like it does not matter to them that they KNOW you can see right through their lies, all that matters is that the ones they're trying to rally on their side DON'T know. It's so twisted and sick, but they seem to think nothing of it. That lack of a conscience.
I know I personally tend to give so much detail when it's not even needed because I've always been so desperate to be understood and believed. I am extremely aware of owning up to everything I do and pushing myself to discern the truth in any given situation. Living with narcissists is so psychologically toxic it's unreal. With my mother, if I say "I know I raised my voice and I'm sorry about that", it's as good as admitting whatever exaggerated story she has with "Yes, you were ABUSIVE to me and you SCREAMED at me and you're OUT OF CONTROL" and all that.
So if any of this sounds familiar, you are not alone!! Not by miles.
Keep me posted on this process; I'd like to figure this one out as well. I'm not "good at making friends" perhaps because I'm not really sure what that looks like? Can you keep me posted -- I think that comparing notes as we go along for this one will be helpful.
Definitely. I'm still learning. I've met a bunch of new people through my current boyfriend and they constantly amaze me. Still, they're so giving and considerate that it honestly throws me. It actually makes me nervous and scared sometimes, which sounds so odd but you might understand why. I've never been used to anyone being kind to me unless they were trying to get something from me, control me, or manipulate me that I find it very hard to 'fit in' with people who aren't like that.
Getting kind of choked up talking about this actually, it's something I want to figure out in the worst way. I really want to break the cycle of toxic relationships and fear that everyone just wants to take a chunk out of me and dump me off the moment I express that I too have needs, wants, dreams, etc. You can probably relate. It's a hard road!
Whatever I figure out, I'll be glad to share!
I married into a VERY healthy family, and it's striking the way that everyone is able to express their emotions freely, without fear of recourse. Even as a daughter-in-law, I can too. And it's astonishing. I'm realizing that I'm entitled to be treated with respect, to be in an environment where I feel supported, to believe in myself, and to make mistakes without fear of being lacerated.
This is wonderful and so encouraging. I can almost feel how good that feels just by reading your words. I'm so glad you've found a safe and supportive environment, and that you finally have room to be recognized and appreciated. That's the best outcome any of us children with narcissistic parents could work toward. That gives me much hope!
It really is one of those situations where it's so hard to make the phoenix rise from the ashes but it's never impossible. It has really helped connecting with other children who have grown up this way, especially since I know how painful it can be to share. It helps so much though.
Thank you so much for sharing with me.
Maybe I should just start a new thread in the psychology or relationship section for all children of narcissistic parents? Maybe refer them to this thread for starters?
