• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[ENFP] Common ENFP issues

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Vamp said:
Like marmalade.sunrise I embarrass people who have very "mean" outlooks: weak people are stupid, certain people "deserve" certain misfortunes. Generally, those who perpetuate ignorance. If dropping trou on them embarrasses them so be it.
hah yes ma'am :yes:

It's hard to filter out the questions from all the other thoughts you provoke while writing such a long reply. It boggles the mind and it leaves me confused as to what i coherently wanna reply to. Best way to ask? Just ask straight out, that way I will only have one thought at once, or at least the thoughts you provoke will all have something to do with that question :D

lol i totallyyy agree with this, my (Fe dom) mom used to describe it as "selective listening"... it's not really intentional, there are just certain things that pop out as more significant or things the question reminds you of that seem very important to talk about. i'd like to be able to answer the question from every angle, but there's not really time for that, so i choose the response that seems most important to me, even if it's not quite on topic. i guess it's a bit self-centered, but the intention is connecting at a deep level of significance.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Finishing things.

Went to Massage therapy school, didn't get my certificate.

Went to uni, accrued over 150 units, have yet to get my BA or BS

Had at least four different majors.

I never finish anything.

:sad:
 

Vamp

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
579
MBTI Type
ENFP
Went to Massage therapy school, didn't get my certificate.

OMG! So did I! :D

The last thing my admissions counselor said to me is, "That's crazy, that's like buying a new car and not driving it" which I had also done earlier in the year.
But seriously, prior to that I was enrolled in a 4 year and dropped out. I'm not starting anymore education until I get my life together. And figure out how to finish things.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
5,517
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
953
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
This has been an interesting exercise. I need to get much better at making Te style questions. That's important for other writing I am doing anyway. Any ideas at how a non-Te user can learn to develop that skill? Ni-Ti becomes really bad when I'm writing essays too. Ni rabbit trails and Ti doesn't want to leave anything out and has to find the perfect structure to accommodate it all. Then Ni comes up with more information that hadn't been considered and the whole thing just seems too big to do properly.

I was able to help an INFJ friend/workmate with this a few years back. I'll focus on the essay writing. The same reasoning applies to questions and interpersonal interactions.

I'll assume that you understand the Fe style of writing already: you make a sequence of arguments, but the arguments are designed around principles of fairness, of what is right and wrong, with an eye toward persuading your listener to adopt a particular perspective on an issue.

The Te style, as I described to my friend, is "fact fact fact fact fact". If it's about how you feel, it's not a fact. If it's about how someone else feels, it's not a fact. If it's your opinion on a matter, it's not a fact. If it's a complaint, it's not a fact.

You probably have one particular message you want to send. You could probably say that message in a single sentence, but a single sentence isn't persuasive enough.

Write out that sentence.

You need to add more sentences in order to make your case convincing. The Te way of doing this is by demonstrating that the facts on the ground prove your case. In general, you can do this by starting with "the way things are now", and describe how things are working currently. Then you can describe the problems with how things work. Then you describe how solve those problems, in a step-by-step kind of way.

So use 2-3 sentences to describe the current situation. Use another 2-3 to identify problems to be solved. If there are really 3 dozen problems, just cover 2-3 of the BIG ones. The other problems can wait. Finally, spend most of your time explaining how to solve the problems. I usually provide 3 to 5 solutions, ranging from trivially easy "i.e., it's not a bug, it's a feature!", to very complex and expensive "redesign our over process." The middle-tier solutions are the "real" ones, where we focus on particular things to change that would solve the problem. Each "solution" should have at least a qualitative "cost/benefit" analysis, making it clear what the trade-offs are.

I fully understand the Ti need for one's logic to be "complete," where Ni sees all these possibilities, and Ti keeps on delving deeper and deeper into the logic, finding flaws and correcting nitpicks, thus leaving you stuck even before you begin writing. That's why I limit the sentences, above. If you are spending too much time describing the problem, you are not being complete: you are being pedantic. It's OK to leave out lots of "important details", because if you're really doing "Te-style", you're having a conversation where others will ask for more detail if they need it - you're writing a communication intended to describe/argue/persuade, and not a reference manual.

Finally, check your arguments for subjectivity and logical fallacies. Usually, when I'm in a debate with an Fe-style person, the initial part starts off very reasonably, and we both understand each other. But after a period of time, it becomes clear that the Fe person is using very different assumptions and arguments than I am, when dealing with the matters upon which we disagree. For the most part, I am puzzled until I realize that they aren't using logic to persuade me, but rather fallacies such as argument by authority, loaded questions, post hoc ergo propter hoc, innuendo, straw man arguments, and so on.

[Please note that I'm not implying that Fe reasoning is illogical or lacks merit. Actually all reasoning is illogical - logic is merely a tool that is useful to evaluate certain kinds of statements.]
 

angelhair45

New member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
307
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
“The most precious gift we can offer others is our presence.
When mindfulness embraces those we love, they will bloom like flowers.
” - Thich Nhat Hanh

I think it's interesting that some of the ENFPs on this thread have expressed that they just can't scale walls of text. I've seen other ENFPs comment on other threads that they usually read only the first sentence of a post before responding to it.

I assume that most people know that ENFPs and ENTPs are notorious for being easily distracted… in fact, several of my ENFP and ENTP friends are on medicine for Adult ADD. But what’s really interesting to me is how ENFPs/ENTPs self-regulate the amount of information they take in. I think that Ne Doms (i.e., ENFPs and ENTPs) have a harder time shutting off outside distractions than most other types… which means they are prone to throttle information… like skipping over walls of text that might demand their consideration.

This is one of the reasons I need alone time on a regular basis. It’s like I can’t shut off my Ne which is, in conjunction with my Fi, constantly reading the emotional tenor of the people around me. And sometimes I can’t bear this constant stream of information. The only way I seem to be able to stop it, is to be alone.

I first became aware of the benefits of throttling incoming information when I was in graduate school. I and my cohorts were assigned as many as 10-15 books per week. This was in addition to the academic journals in our field we had to scrutinize. Such a reading schedule was nearly impossible to keep up with, regardless of personality type.

I, like my classmates, was overwhelmed by the workload. I was a full-time Ph.D. student, a part-time graduate teaching assistant, a freelance writer (to supplement my income), and a wife with typical spousal responsibilities. To survive, I had to learn some real-politick-grad-student survival skills, which included being able to skim a book, quickly determine its salient points, and then speak thoughtfully and articulately on these in graduate seminar.

I was brilliant at this. Really. It played to all my ENFP skills. In fact, my skills became so renowned that my fellow graduate students started a betting pool on whether or not I would get publicly praised by my more curmudgeonly professors for books I hadn’t read. I enjoyed the attention immensely. And, for the first time I became aware of (and started to formally cultivate) my gift of the gab.

I was surprised to find that I could speak more articulately if I hadn’t read the assigned reading material thoroughly. < I ask you to re-read this statement because I think this is the heart of the matter.

In other words, it was because I hadn’t read the assignment in its entirety, I was able to better pontificate on the salient points. By skimming the reading, I prevented myself from being distracted by all the intellectual permutations that I could see so easily with my Ne. These endless possibilities were overwhelming… and the idea of having to sort all this extra information derived from a more thorough treatment of the reading was daunting.

Grad school was long ago, but I still throttle incoming information by a variety of methods. For example, I will take a few days off to reflect before posting to a thread on this very forum. Or, I might skim a thread, at first skipping walls of text, until I’m able to come back to the thread when my Ne isn’t overly stimulated. And, when my Ne is overstimulated and I’m under stress, I still rely on my ability to speak and write well. This is why it’s sometimes way easier for me to post something on this thread, than it is for me to read it carefully and thoroughly.

So I think the moral of the story here is that Ne Doms sometimes have to throttle their information intake as a means of self-preservation. And that it is sometimes easier for them to express themselves than to listen carefully. And, also that it is easy for an Ne Dom to rely too much on these crutches to navigate their worlds.

This is why I’ve worked very hard to not overly rely on my bull sh*tting abilities, in order to be able to skate by without reading the entire book cover-to-cover. And why I consciously try avoid just skimming things for the salient points, in lieu of thoughtful reading and thorough comprehension. It’s a struggle everyday. And, I don’t always succeed. But when I do, I'm a better person for it.*




*One of the things that has really helped me is practicing Mindfulness meditation. If you don't know what mindfulness is, I recommend you Google the term. Here's a quick summary I found on the Web.

Wow. You explained it perfectly! Except for the circumstances I can relate to everything word for word. I've never been able to express it as well as you did. Great insight. Thanks.
 

angelhair45

New member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
307
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Yeah and it can go both ways. People often don't take us seriously enough - even if we can prove ourselves to be quite "book smart" - because of our basic nature and ways of expressing ourselves.

On the other hand, I also find that some people take my game playing or theatrics TOO seriously, as well - it's like really? REALLY?

So it's a matter of not being taken seriously when I am being thoughtful, or being taken too seriously when I'm just fucking around.


Oh I completely relate to this.
 

angelhair45

New member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
307
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
I wonder if that's why some people on this board have said they see Fe in me...I do tend to score pretty high on Fe on functions tests, sometimes equally or higher than Fi, even though I'm clearly Fi ... but I will do the public humiliation thing to someone who I think is just an unbelievable asshole...I'm most bothered by narcissists, people who say things like they are better than other people, that weak people deserve to die, or people who are just openly nasty and self-centered...occasionally though I will go for the throats of people who have complete logic fail, but that's rare, and generally only in subjects I'm strongly interested in. Which seems to point to Fi not Fe, because I would think that Fe would only do this in the case of things that are offensive to the entire group, not just my own personal interests. I am sometimes thinking of other people, though...sometimes I have thoughts like, "If I don't call this person on their bullshit, who will? They can't just go around thinking this is OK."

I think I just have serious Te and Si development for an ENFP, maybe because I'm older, I don't know.

No I completely relate to this. I can definitely do this if I'm dealing with people like you described. Especially if I get around a nasty ENTP or ISTJ. I won't be able to keep my mouth shut. I will have to call them on their ignorant bullshit. I don't like to humiliate others unless they are the kind that enjoys humiliating others for sport. Then I feel it necessary to put them in their place whether it's for someone else's benefit or my own(sometimes).
 

Rebe

New member
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,431
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4sop
From this thread and the INFP thread, does anyone notice distinct differences between the XNFPs? I can distinctly see the difference between the XNFJs but not so these two and I have been wondering for a while. I see a lot of similarities.

Possible distinct difference:
ENFPs are quicker to verbalize their emotions to others, even strangers.
 

Vamp

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
579
MBTI Type
ENFP
From this thread and the INFP thread, does anyone notice distinct differences between the XNFPs? I can distinctly see the difference between the XNFJs but not so these two and I have been wondering for a while. I see a lot of similarities.

Possible distinct difference:
ENFPs are quicker to verbalize their emotions to others, even strangers.

I'm not really seeing any big differences. One of the things that stood out to me in the INFP thread was the thing Fidelia brought up about "cocooning" when one needs to sort things out. I'm really prone to that. So much so that people wouldn't type me as E.

Maybe the only differences would be the amount of forwardness. I guess a little bit of E goes a long way in establishing boundaries and other things right off the bat and clearing up social ambiguity.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
I think ENFPs are much more direct. They do seem to have their own version of cocooning, although I don't know enough about it yet to truly comment. I know though that despite their great amount of social activity, they can be extremely private in other ways.

I've also found it interesting to see the big differences in how ENFPs varied from INFPs in following a conversation (ENFPs are way more scattery and flit from thing to thing, whereas the INFPs are more focused and likely to reprint the questions and answer them point by point.) I think it's that Ne thing we were talking about before.

The ENFP description was more comprehensive than the INFP one. However, both kinds would be less likely to present a humongous summary of themselves for people to comment on. They'd be more likely to go with subjects as they came up.

In both cases, people would be reluctant to speak to anyone else's experience. Also, no one exactly has stepped forward as the "host" of either thread, even though Seymour has remained quite involved throughout.

Despite jumping around quite a bit, I also notice that the ENFPs crave more order than the INFPs in presentation. If it's not there, their attention is likely to move elsewhere.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Fellow ENFPs, tell me how you guys experience the cocooning thing you do, if you do it at all? Coz I experience it the way it's represented in the INFP-thread.
 

Scott N Denver

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
2,898
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Fellow ENFPs, tell me how you guys experience the cocooning thing you do, if you do it at all? Coz I experience it the way it's represented in the INFP-thread.

may I call you the red-headed stepchild of NFPhood??? :D ;)
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
you mean cocooning like when you're upset? or trying to work something out? i do that a bit...it's strange because i don't know what is going on when i do vs when i don't...meaning sometimes...i'll just come out with it bluntly and want to discuss it right then...actually...i think i usually do it that way but sometimes i'll be upset and just go out on the balcony to have a cigarette...or not want to talk awhile...i guess until i've resolved everything and can do so without being emotional...i don't like to come off as emotional...or let it color my words or make me overreact....so i guess that's what's going on...i'm feeling...processing...so i can discuss it more clearheaded.

edit: okay that was a mess...i guess it's just when you get overemotional so you wait until you're not.
 

angelhair45

New member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
307
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
I'm not sure if cocooning is the right word. But every now in then I introvert. When I introvert I go into myself and process information. I wouldn't say I'm cocooning because many times I will be active physically while sorting things out internally. I'm more aware of it now, before I could never figure out why sometimes I just didn't feel like talking and need to be alone. Now I know what I'm doing and can call it what it is. Processing.

I usually process while doing something else like reading, dancing, cleaning etc. Sometimes though, if a situation arises that is very overwhelming I will shut down more than usual. My processing takes on the variety of laying in bed and thinking. This can be dangerous and has led to depression. Though, now that I am more self aware it's easier to prevent that from happening.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
Staff member
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
14,497
MBTI Type
INFJ
See this is how I think ENFPs do that processing differently. INFP activities will often be an escape into fantasy - a book, a movie, a videogame rather than something physical like dancing, working out, cleaning etc. I wonder if the thought processes are the same or different?
 

stringstheory

THIS bitch
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
923
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
1
Fellow ENFPs, tell me how you guys experience the cocooning thing you do, if you do it at all? Coz I experience it the way it's represented in the INFP-thread.

It's kind of strange because it's very much on a whim and sometimes it's very unpredictable as to what i need. I don't usually know what i need until i am not getting what i need and i feel almost desperately that i need a change of scene now.

Sometimes i really need to just be left alone to recharge and process, but that can involve either the need to feel productive (cleaning, running errands, etc.) or the need to retreat elsewhere (video games, forums, etc.). Usually it ends up being a little bit of both.

Sometimes i need to have someone around to talk to. Sometimes i need to go out and be around SOMEONE because i've spent so much time processing that it's painful and i need to recharge from that.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
cocooning... i don't really know if i'd call it cocooning. it's more like purifying, lol.

i want to clear my mind - presumably from all the CRAZY Ne tends to hoard - and just recenter. just... be me. so i'll do something like paint, or yoga, or play violin, or just go lay outside somewhere, that gives me lots of soothing familiar sensory input and doesn't require much thought or hard decisions. sometimes it's nice to have familiar people around, but generally not new ones - and sometimes when i've had a lot of high-intensity lots-of-people interaction i am just like GET THE FUCK AWAY. i just don't want to have more to think about!

but when i have emotional issues, i want to talk those through with someone, or without that option write them out - it's got to do with being able to assess and work through my feelings logically when i know they're off but i don't know why. also, video games and books and movies are fun (i love stuff with a fantasy environment), but those don't really help me purify, so to speak. they're more of a diversion, just for the sensory enjoyment of it. i like them to have a little heart, but don't like them to be super emotional because i have enough of that already. i love the dan brown books, for instance. i know they're not super deep, but they're fun and have adventure and mystical elements, and enough emotion.

edit: can you tell i have high Se? lol
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
See this is how I think ENFPs do that processing differently. INFP activities will often be an escape into fantasy - a book, a movie, a videogame rather than something physical like dancing, working out, cleaning etc. I wonder if the thought processes are the same or different?

Not true at all.


I escape into my head when I have no access to stimulating stimuli. I do this frequently during my job.

I will read, I will forum (please check my # of posts :rock:), I will write, I will go into an Fi-Si loop, or I will, as you allude to, go out and do something sensational, in the literal sense, like go dancing, go for a walk, but even while I walk I tend to be in my head, very much so.

Honestly, I think a lot of the ENFPs who frequent this sight are close on the I/E divide.

However, I am very much so an ENFP, I identify too much with the ENFP profiles I've read in various places.

Yes, we are hedonistic, stimulus-seeking EPs, but first and foremost, we are Ns, literally, our first function is Ne.

:)
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
Cacooning, I just read it and immediately identified with it.

My bed is my sanctuary.

What would I do without the fetal position, without the ability to comfort myself.

:cry:

I sucked my thumb until I was....

:peepwall:

Anyhow, sometimes we just get overloaded, Ne-Fi overload, and we need to shut up, shut out and shut down.

:yes:
 
Top