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  1. #61
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ Now you're getting another kind of look ... :yim_phbbbbt:
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #62
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ Now you're getting another kind of look ... :yim_phbbbbt:

  3. #63
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Hmm, my dear ENFP's who I love, here's a question ... how come when I give you the "look" - that look that says "rein in the Ne ... you are out of control, people aren't following you, people are thinking you've crossed the line" you never pay attention, even though you see me...

    ?

    See, only they're allowed to make faces and such and have them interperated. Want a reasponse and a reaction you have to do something big (huge, enormous) to get their attention, then tell them what's going on in no uncertain terms. Then leave if the don't listen.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #64
    Senior Member Pixelholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    See, only they're allowed to make faces and such and have them interperated. Want a reasponse and a reaction you have to do something big (huge, enormous) to get their attention, then tell them what's going on in no uncertain terms. Then leave if the don't listen.
    Sadly this is kind of true
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” -Nietzsche

  5. #65
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spastic_Blondie View Post

    ----FROM OP: 1) I really really hate what I perceive to be emotional guilttripping ( I grew up in a house of Fe-people, not all equally healthy). It makes me rebel beyond all reason. If you ask me to do something for you genuinly, I'll jump through every hoop to make it so, if I know it to be important to you. Whine that I haven't done it yet, while you didn't even ask, and I'll bend over backwards and cut my own throat before I give you what you want. I *am* working on this ----

    WHEN WILL MY DAD GET THIS THROUGH HIS HEAD? Some people - particularly my dad - think I am stubborn and unhelpful because I refuse to do things for them. THIS IS BECAUSE YOU ARE GUILTTRIPPING ME BEFORE EVEN GIVING ME A CHANCE TO AGREE TO DO IT. If you're going to assume I will refuse to help, I will give you exactly what you expected. If you'd like to ask nicely, I'd be happy to offer my assistance.
    My mother and brother are ENFJ and the rest of my family is Fe dom-aux, 2 N's 2 S's.. but all Fe.

    That kind of vicious guilt-tripping is very common.
    Its puzzling to see them react badly to my nonresponsiveness, like the other ENFPs I refuse to help -anyone- under those conditions - and as bad as that "not doing anything post-guilttrip" might seem, that's the -best- of me holding the absolute worst of me in place. If I had it my way I would be outright violent in response to that kind of behavior. Regardless if its an Fe nudge or not, I do not care for reason, or logic behind it.. if you're careless enough to make me question the very nature of our friendship/relationship... I will not hold back.
    It's extremely insulting on all levels as far as I'm concerned.

    "Neurotic, ha!"
    I let out a scornful laugh.
    "If neurotic is wanting two mutually exclusive things at one and the same time, then I'm neurotic as hell.
    I'll be flying back and forth between one mutually exclusive thing and another for the rest of my days.
    "

    — Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar.

  6. #66
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I expect most of you already know the reason why Fe users react so badly to inaction and perceive it to be intentionally putting a spoke in the wheels. Just in case though - I think it bears repeating that

    1) Not doing something is not ever neutral and more likely than not it will be perceived negatively. Not asking about someone is interpreted as disinterest. Not communicating regularly is interpreted as either a problem between you or dislike. Not stating something positive usually means that they are assuming you are too polite or reticent to state the negative that you do feel. Not showing up somewhere is perceived as not considering it important.

    2) Because group dynamics are central to them, they assume that you see the same things that they do and have decided that it doesn't matter to you. Therefore they react as if you have already done something wrong, rather than making a request.

    3) They'd prefer something to be spontaneous rather than out of duty. You know how you hate people asking "How are you" as a polite convention? Well, asking feels like they are forcing a person to do something that they've already tacitly stated that they don't wish to do.

    4) Making things work for the other person is usually the Fe way of showing that they love someone. Therefore if they perceive that you are not on board with trying to make something work that they are trying to do (and which you are not directly opposed to), they feel unloved or that you are being selfish and react badly. This in turn provokes a bad reaction from you because the request was never made and you feel that they are misunderstanding who you are at your core and not accepting you (or only accepting you under certain conditions).

    Can any of you give some examples of situations where Fe users have driven you nuts this way and made you want to dig in your heels completely? Give an example of how the conversation could have gone instead (and at what point the request should be made), if you would be willing!

  7. #67
    Senior Member Scott N Denver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Orobas, I want a job where you work. Apparently you can surf the net and post to forums all day long.
    AND she has a bunch of NFP coworkers...

  8. #68
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Starry Knights brought up an interesting idea. I think one of the things in the other thread that was useful was that there was conflict which came about because of the somewhat more outspoken way of being that ENFPs posting there had. However, Fe isn't likely to go after that sort of thing in someone else's territory. The conflict itself made us examine why it had come about. Here, I doubt that will happen in quite the same way.

  9. #69
    Not Sexy. Not ENFP. Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Starry Knights brought up an interesting idea. I think one of the things in the other thread that was useful was that there was conflict which came about because of the somewhat more outspoken way of being that ENFPs posting there had. However, Fe isn't likely to go after that sort of thing in someone else's territory. The conflict itself made us examine why it had come about. Here, I doubt that will happen in quite the same way.
    Hey fidelia, I am so happy to see you here...and while I am still feeling very 'off' and thus insecure with regards to my communication and how I will come across (man I don't know what the heck is wrong with me but I have a total head fog)...I am going to try and put a couple of brain cells together because this is so important to me.

    I am embarrassed to admit this but it wasn't until fairly recently that I started to take a good, hard look at my communication with others. It is not that I haven't always 'striven' (I'm pretty sure I just made up that word - ha!) for self-awareness...but I am starting to get this sense that a lot of say...my more undesirable communication/behavior may be/have been overlooked, ignored, secretly forgiven and never mentioned...subsequently leaving me to go about my life believing 'I really have a way with people - people respond well to me' - when in reality they could be thinking quite the opposite.

    I am also embarrassed to admit that while I have been interested in MBTI for several years...I apparently missed completely that there was this 'whole nuther' function called Fe. It didn't occur to me that this function was practically a photo negative of Fi, etc. etc. (I had to put in the 2 etc. because I don't really know what I'm talking about here). Basically, I didn't 'get' that there were people in this world that not only would NOT tell me if I upset them, hurt them, annoyed them...but that they could hide/control their feelings so well that I wouldn't even be able to make the connection between me, our communication & their feelings about our communication.

    Much of my ignorance was reinforced by the fact I grew up completely surrounded by ENFPs. A sister, brother and a whole host of childhood-into-adult friends. Like I suspect every type experiences when surrounded by their own...it is easy. I mean, at least as far as ENFP communication goes...you don't have to think. When I am surrounded by ENFPs I know I can 'blast' one of them for something they said or did...and it is quite likely they will know, 100%, that I make no judgment on their character. I can put my foot in my mouth or forget our anniversary and they will still know my intentions are pure or that they mean the world to me. I don't have to be careful using 'I' language...or phrases like 'IMO' because that is somehow (supposed to be) implied with ENFPs. And I don't have to worry about inviting another ENFP to talk because they will tell me whether I want to hear or space-out.

    I am not used to the 'more formal' Fe function. And it often feels like I am trying to make room in my brain to fit what still feels like 'all these very specific rules & regulations' to me...so far removed from my more 'thoughtless but sincerely well-meaning' style.

    My INFJ...well...whatever he was I no longer know - ha! And my ISTJ sister who started taking interest in overcoming our differences (I had no idea we had differences I just thought she was often in a pissy mood)...those two got me thinking about other things other than last nights NOVA for a few seconds...then 'do I have any bills due' for a few seconds...to a few seconds of 'aren't fireworks cool' and 'I'm not sure what I think of guys that drive red sports cars'...

    INFJs, other Js (except for my ex-bosses) other introverts, are worth it to me to do the work it will take for this ENFP to learn a whole new social language.

    I hope those individuals from the list above can comment on this thread or some others...so I can be a better friend, family member, wife or SO...
    A better human-being because I am able to communicate how much the other person means to me in a way they can understand.

  10. #70
    Not Sexy. Not ENFP. Starry's Avatar
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    ...I actually thought of something kinda funny. Again, I know in my rational mind that this is something I need to be embarrassed of...but I still laugh when I think of it. And I hope you guys get a kick out of it too.

    The first lesson my ISTJ sister thought to give me when we started the process of 'learning each other's language'...was this:

    When you call, email, text...I need to first ask the other person how they are doing (okay...I am laughing so hard typing this) before I launch into whatever I desire to say.

    I am beginning to understand how strange this must seem to Fe users...to NOT think to first reference the other person first...

    And here I'm thinking...what? Umm...if something really, really good happened to you or really, really bad happened to you...or if you have something to say that just can't wait...all you have to do is interrupt me.

    ((I know Fe users may see not asking about them as we do not care...but that is just not true. In some strange way...even just asking someone how they are is prying and we would rather you just tell us freely. Asking someone how they are out of protocal still feels, for me, somehow unnatural or manipulative. I know there are ENFP examples to the contrary...but ENFPs don't like to 'take' anything. Even if it is just a simple answer to a social question))

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