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  1. #221
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloee View Post
    yes, that's what i thought too by "oversensitive"; taking everything personally...

    only way its improving for me is by accepting i am sensitive and that i take it personally and feel judged... i kind of talk to myself "it's okay, darling, you're sensitive, i understand you" not talking myself out of it with "it wasnt personal" because my feelings dont understand that language, rational. they understand only empathic approach... kind of getting through the feelings rather than talking myself out of them
    I'm going to try your approach, I think it may work better than my own method.
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  2. #222
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    I'm going to try your approach, I think it may work better than my own method.
    Actually, it works better for INTJs, too, though we can get away with the "you shouldn't feel that way" version for many decades before it wears thin.

    My version is to just let myself feel the feelings. If I let them "pass through me", then I'm still centered when it's all done. If I try to make them bounce off of me, I'm rather battered after the process.

  3. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    Interesting. For me, I'm not trying to fight the feelings as much as I'm trying to realize it's not personal just because I feel it is. It's not an attack on my character just because I am feeling attacked.
    Just need to add that i view it actually as it is attacK on my character because i feel that way, the "reality" doesnt really matter (=doesnt help) because i still perceived it as attack on my character. my feelings are there no matter how much i try to explain it differently by logic.
    So if other person didnt do something wrong or wasnt mean but I got offended, I was still attacked in my lil head and I say to myself that it's okay to feel hurt because I DONT LIKE TO BE CRITICIZED.

    I tried with "its not personal", didnt work, so I do this and it works better.

    To Fi everything is attack on their character in a way.. at least to me... Somewhere deep inside its always personal especially before i started to accept it

  4. #224
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    This helped me, Ennegram Four and Personal Growth.

    Do not pay so much attention to your feelings; they are not a true source of support for you, as you probably already know. Remember this advice: "From our present perspective, we can also see that one of the most important mistakes Fours make is to equate themselves with their feelings. The fallacy is that to understand themselves they must understand their feelings, particularly their negative ones, before acting. Fours do not see that the self is not the same as its feelings or that the presence of negative feelings does not preclude the presence of good in themselves" (Personality Types, p. 172). Always remember that your feelings are telling you something about yourself as you are at this particular moment, not necessarily more than that.

  5. #225

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    ^^I am not a 4, so I dont know exactly... but I like metaphor for 4s that they are like a bird who breaks her wing in order to distract attention from nest with her "kids" ... which is kind of similar what the quote is saying.. that many feelings are distractions from real stuff

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    This helped me, Ennegram Four and Personal Growth.
    Yeah, I agree that it is important to analyze feelings and understand them instead of always following pure feeling.

    For example, I may feel a strong sense of Fi dislike for, indignation toward, even vengefulness toward someone I see as being a nasty, hateful person ... but then if I step back from that situation, sometimes I realize that person acts that way because they are broken in some way, and following my initial feeling isn't really the most sensible or effective course of action (this is probably Te/Si kicking in).

    Or in another case, feeling intense jealousy isn't always a cue to act out and get angry or upset...it can just cause drama and arguments and push away the person you're getting jealous over, which is the opposite of what you really want.

    Feelings are very, very important and I don't think they should be buried or ignored, but I do think it's imperitive to really think about what those feelings really mean instead of just acting on them.

  7. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    sometimes i really want to speak up and just don't have the balls, and then regret it terribly. or do speak up and go overboard and regret that. oh to find the happy medium
    I think this is a major nature of Fi that Fi doms/auxs have to master in life. I think Enneagram 8/wings and extroverts have a natural leg up - or rather, less of a deficit. This is one of my biggest battles in life, that karmic beast I have to slay. (BTW, I'm allowed to speak as hokily and cheesily as I want with as inane metaphors as I want because I am an ENFP and this is an ENFP thread :steam::steam::steam

    The best way for an ENFP to master this is to fling yourself headforth into 'saying it on the spot' as soon as the impulse takes you and take the lumps and bumps along with the glory. :P For some of us, it's the only way we learn. LEARN being the operative word so you can adjust your behavior and better predict the outcome of when you speak. Sadly, a few loudmouth ENFPs never get the hang of this (like one of my rl ENFP male friends ) and neither do some frustrated ENFPs. But holding onto stuff and regret, that'll seriously twist you up eventually and change your personality.

    But yeah, you basically have to get used to the rush of releasing emotion/idea immediately without overintellectualizing it or making it safe. It won't kill you. You might have a few seconds (or days) of agonizing wait to see what that outburst brought you but it won't kill you. :P

    I think (most) ENFPs secretly or not so secretly live in fear of our own emotions, or our ability to basically handle what should be "basic human experiences". Since we have what feels like a whirlwind swirling inside and it can be disorienting even for ourselves so how can we translate it and express it in a way that makes sense to the rest of the world? I think it's common to have that feeling of "am I doing this right? is this what everyone else is feeling/doing? is how i am experiencing/interpreting this normal?" The Ne overload of stimuli + the Fi overload of response and interpretation - it's just a lot.

    Or yikes maybe that is just me...hmm, don't think so though.

    Also, I wanted to reply to Satine's reply to my reply but I'm falling asleep...

    Consider this a placeholder - just wanted to say about liking the 'regulation of Fe'. In my own life and with close loved ones, I have no problem walking into deep, murky waters. I crave intimacy.

    But, socially speaking, yes absolutely I think people should be aware of where they are and who they are talking to and regulate themselves. I am a big believer in etiquette and time and place for everything. I think I was born old fashioned that way (I'm also SO in Ennatype instincts, so that's probably a good sub for Fe? LOLOL) I'm not saying people should put on a show and pretend for the sake of other people, I mean, if you're sad, you're sad, etc. I respect and value the authenticity of what people feel in the moment like any good F'er :P I'm just saying, there is a time and place and *way* for everything.

    Hmmm...I always thought ENFPs were (endearingly? lol) awkward when dealing even 1 on 1 with other people's pain and grief. I know other ENFPs have mentioned it on this forum.

    Also...sorry again I'm so late on this party, but as for Fe itself - I've never had a problem with Fe. I thought people IRL loved Fe, for realz. It's warm, it's directive (as in it will try to step in and help you), it's thoughtful. I thought it was a trait that automatically made you popular. LOL. I haven't had any problems with Fe doms/auxs irl that I know of IRL. Well, maybe a few really obnoxious or type-A/Diva ones, but any type-A/Diva is likely to rub people the wrong way and they come in many types - they tend to be those damned loud mouthed extraverts though. :P

    PPS damn 23 pages and I've yet to really read through, just ignore this post if it's all been discussed already.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

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  8. #228
    Freyja's Amargith's Avatar
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    Op edited to include 10) Oversensitivity:

    10) Oversensitivity. Because an ENFP struggles to tame the Fi-beast, and the pain can be intense, it is very easy to cause emotional turmoil in an ENFP, especially when addressing the part of them that they're either very proud of in a negative way, or the parts that they're very insecure about. The reason for this is that the ENFP is already aware of this, or doesn't feel accepted, and it's like rubbing salt into a wound or denying them the right to be themselves. An ENFP is also unlikely to go push other peoples buttons like that, unless they're for some reason oblivious to them (Ne-hyperdrive) or angry with that person for some reason (Te-hammer, lethal at that point!), and will most of the time feel really guilty about doing so later and likely appologize for it. For that reason, they can very much overreact when someone does point out their flaws or talk about their person (or what they perceive to be a personal attack in any case), as they themselves would never cause anyone willingly that kind of harm. Little do/did they know that others don't have that same experience and therefore do not respond in the same way. Often, I would envy those that were able to take criticism so well, but for the life of me did not understand how they remained so calm under it all, or didn't consider it rude.
    I personally am still working with that one, but it helps to have baselines of what *you* want yourself to be AND to understand why other people set different standards. It gives you the option to step back, see why they say what they say, why it is that for you this causes that oversensitive reaction and if you should react at all. It takes a while to learn, but after a while that process goes almost automatic.

    The only times it still happens to me is if a button is repeatedly pushed and it's one I'm still figuring out myself (aka, I do things a certain way, but haven't taken the time yet, or am in the process still of figuring out if I should change said behavior/response/way of being or not).
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  9. #229
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    But yeah, you basically have to get used to the rush of releasing emotion/idea immediately without overintellectualizing it or making it safe. It won't kill you. You might have a few seconds (or days) of agonizing wait to see what that outburst brought you but it won't kill you. :P

    I think (most) ENFPs secretly or not so secretly live in fear of our own emotions, or our ability to basically handle what should be "basic human experiences". Since we have what feels like a whirlwind swirling inside and it can be disorienting even for ourselves so how can we translate it and express it in a way that makes sense to the rest of the world? I think it's common to have that feeling of "am I doing this right? is this what everyone else is feeling/doing? is how i am experiencing/interpreting this normal?" The Ne overload of stimuli + the Fi overload of response and interpretation - it's just a lot.
    100% agree. I very rarely have outbursts when I am angry but the few times I did, it worked out well both times. It was (apparently) deserved on their parts, expressed my feelings (for the first time without being vague and defensive) and the results were very, very good. Sometimes people really do not know how you feel and they need to know but I have a rigid control/issue over how much to let others know so when my guard is down and I just hurl it at them, it is actually very effective. I see myself as having an emotional/angry tantrum during those times, which is very unnatural to my 'naturally cool demeanor'. I feel all ashamed, childish and exposed but ... sometimes they need to know exactly how you feel rationale and 'being strong and diplomatic' aside.

  10. #230
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Sometimes people really do not know how you feel and they need to know but I have a rigid control/issue over how much to let others know so when my guard is down and I just hurl it at them, it is actually very effective. I see myself as having an emotional/angry tantrum during those times, which is very unnatural to my 'naturally cool demeanor'. I feel all ashamed, childish and exposed but ... sometimes they need to know exactly how you feel rationale and 'being strong and diplomatic' aside.
    + 923084574340954534

    agreed. sometimes, when diplomacy just isn't working, it takes a Te-Fi attack to set things straight.

    seriously though, it happens with my INTP dad rather often, and the result is typically that whatever point i had that was immediately dismissed by Ti finally gets across. not that it's always the best way or even really appropriate, but it is a surefire way to get my point to be taken seriously - and most of the time the result is "wow, that's a good point"

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