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  1. #11
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    My issues with ENFPs, and they seem quite common..

    Jumping to conclusions and reacting to them before all the facts are known.

    Anyone seen that Video that was posted a few days ago about the guy who went to Europe for 2 weeks and His girlfriend seemed oblivious to the fact he was leaving and spent the next 2 weeks reacting rather poorly?

    That is an extreme case of what I mean.

    And...

    They seem to be very good at the labeling game. Like what I mean is. If I say am against the idea of a gay pride parade, I am not asked why or to explain myself.. Nope.. I am homophobic.

  2. #12
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    Oh!!

    This is so me, it's scary.

    If you ask me to do something for you genuinely, I'll jump through every hoop to make it so, if I know it to be important to you. Whine that I haven't done it yet, while you didn't even ask, and I'll bend over backwards and cut my own throat before I give you what you want. I *am* working on this
    Likes oneandonly liked this post

  3. #13
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    How come it feels fake? Do you mean in a schmoozing sense, or just checking in with your friends feels fake?
    To check in with others without a real feeling of affection feels fake for me.

    However since my affection is typically internally driven, it can be very intermittent, but when it occurs, it is very deep and sincere.

    The Fe people I know-mostly EXTPs-seem much more friendly to me on the surface as those Fe connections they establish are spread very wide. So they seem really nice. I think they feel nice as well. But for me, if I act nice towards a person it is out of real, deep seated affection-and it opens me up to deep hurt if they spurn that affection. So most people see logic or nuetrality, not overt kindness.

    As satine said, my true affection can be very all or none...thus I can easily overwhelm people if I show them real Fi.

  4. #14
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think satine made a good point in the other thread that Fe users are more about continuity while Fi users abundance of supply comes in spurts. Too much contact and Fi users are depleted.

  5. #15
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    I notice a tendency for some ENFPs to speak first without giving much thought of what they're saying; which can often have the effect of creating a huge mess if it's misunderstood by the other person or hits a nerve. For me, when I say something, I've already given some thought as to what I'm saying.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Ratsimoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    My issues with ENFPs, and they seem quite common..

    Jumping to conclusions and reacting to them before all the facts are known.

    Anyone seen that Video that was posted a few days ago about the guy who went to Europe for 2 weeks and His girlfriend seemed oblivious to the fact he was leaving and spent the next 2 weeks reacting rather poorly?

    That is an extreme case of what I mean.

    And...

    They seem to be very good at the labeling game. Like what I mean is. If I say am against the idea of a gay pride parade, I am not asked why or to explain myself.. Nope.. I am homophobic.
    That's not true for all enfps. Because I hate labels. I hate when people label people. It must be an individual thing.
    [SIGPIC] [/SIGPIC]

    Death must be so beautiful. To lie in the soft brown earth, with the grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence. To have no yesterday, and no to-morrow. To forget time, to forgive life, to be at peace."
    — Sylvia Plath (The Bell Jar)

    "Remember, remember, this is now, and now, and now. Live it, feel it, cling to it. I want to become acutely aware of all I’ve taken for granted."
    — Sylvia Plath

  7. #17
    Senior Member Ratsimoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I notice a tendency for some ENFPs to speak first without giving much thought of what they're saying; which can often have the effect of creating a huge mess if it's misunderstood by the other person or hits a nerve. For me, when I say something, I've already given some thought as to what I'm saying.
    I actually think before I speak ( I know you said some). I think very fast. But I don't have an internal judge to tell me if what I'm about to say is inappropriate to say at the moment. So I learn from people reaction. Enfps do think before speaking despite what people think- maybe that's just me!
    [SIGPIC] [/SIGPIC]

    Death must be so beautiful. To lie in the soft brown earth, with the grasses waving above one's head, and listen to silence. To have no yesterday, and no to-morrow. To forget time, to forgive life, to be at peace."
    — Sylvia Plath (The Bell Jar)

    "Remember, remember, this is now, and now, and now. Live it, feel it, cling to it. I want to become acutely aware of all I’ve taken for granted."
    — Sylvia Plath

  8. #18
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    My best friend since very young could be typed this way, so I'll go down the list and discuss if/how some of these things manifest in him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Here goes:

    Misunderstandings:

    1) Weirdness. NeFi tends to give ENFPs a weird, zany kind of aura, making them come off as erratic, random, flaky, illogical and sometimes socially retarded, despite being so annoyingly likable. ENFPs tend to run circles around people and need to play with thoughts and ideas a bit before settling on a conclusion, to make sure they've seen it from all angles and to make sure it actually fits accurately into their inner world (or if their inner world needs adjusting). This playfulness can also be displayed just for fun, making it sometimes hard to see where the ENFP is going with a certain train of thought (if they're going somewhere at all with it). Rest assured though, there's always a motivation, drive and reason for it.
    Definitely see this one. He also doesn't understand why I feel a need to tone down the weirdness a bit around other people. In his mind, he's just being himself, and proud of it. In my mind, being too much of "yourself" often rubs people the wrong way - others have the right not to be friends with you. However, you still have to live with them, so even if they don't see the "whole" you, that's not a bad thing.

    2)Heart on the sleeve. ENFPs connect through Fi and Fi usually doesn't waste time getting to know someone. It jumps to the intimate part of the conversation as that is who the person *really* is..which is what is relevant to Fi. And that tends to either go over extremely well, to the point where people just end up telling them their life stories and childhood trauma's or...really badly, as people just consider it rude, inappropriate and impolite, not to mention wayyy too intense
    Don't necessarily see this one, but he developed an avoidant strategy to reducing interpersonal pain. He will express socially inappropriate emotional states, though, and wonder why we get weirded out by it.

    3) Flirting. Due to the ENFP tendency to jump right to the intimate part of the relationship (the need to get to know people for who they are) and them not receiving or losing the copy of the social guidelines manual, ENFPs are often perceived to be big flirts when they're actually just genuinly intrigued by people. (to avoid future derail on this, I'll admit that I too was like this but I have become a conscious flirt over time!)
    Yup. I'll shoot glances at him to back off because she has a boyfriend, and he'll just not get it.

    4) Crude and insensitive. Their Ne can sometimes get ahead of them, causing them to toss out blunt things before socially filtering them and framing them better. This especially happens when they're overly excited about some new piece of information.
    See above. Definitely an issue.

    5) Attention whoring. Most ENFPs have no clue what they did wrong when they get accused of this and experience it as oppression of their right to express who they are. Once again, it's usually a clash of group values versus the need for authenticity, and a poor grasp of the social rules that is at the base of this. As they tend to experience things very profoundly, and they wear their hearts on their sleeves, the expression of these things can be perceived as an act of attention whoring, though most ENFPs don't have a clue how to play social games (once again, somehow we didn't get the manual ), though this may vary depending on the ENFP's surroundings while growing up.
    Yup. Once described him as a "general without an army".

    6) Making excuses and refusing to appologize. An ENFP will typically try to explain to the other person why they did something, not as a way to weasel out of the responsibility, but to increase understanding and harmony. Similarly, they will often not be aware of the fact that their transgression is once again in that social manual that everyone seems to know, and therefore not see it fit to actually appologize for something that to them was not intended in harm and in their eyes also didn't really harm anyone.
    Definitely. Along with this is a general inability to recognize personal space, and social clues as to property status. Using a computer without asking, and taking blankets off my bed that I'll likely be using, are examples of this.

    7) Leading people on. As ENFPs tend to share intimate details easily with others, and often have others reciprocate, a misunderstanding can arise between the two people in that relationship as to the status of the other person. ENFPs tend to love easily and like spreading that love, making people feel loved and being loved in return. It creates a special harmony, a being in sync that's very pleasurable, as well as a bond which makes everyone feel safe. However, as time is limited and there are many people to get to know and love, it can put pressure on the already existing relationships. Also, Fi doesn't require frequent contact to keep this bond alive. This often leaves the other partner feeling hurt and rejected, while the ENFP's affection really hasn't waned at all. Similarly, it can give the illusion of a stronger bond than was intended by the ENFP:
    This is a big one. We're friends, and most likely always will be, but we're just not best friends in the same way we were when we were 8. We've got different interests now, and his issues irritate me, and vice versa. He hasn't quite yet figured out that this isn't a bad thing, and that as long as the good feelings are there, it's OK to grow apart in certain ways. Instead of clinging to a past that's simply not the present, it would be better to find a friend who can interact in the way that he wants. Besides, what's more fun than meeting old friends and getting to know the people they hang out with now?

    8) Not being thoughtful, reliable or considered loyal. It hurts an ENFP more than anything to hear that. The thing is, since we're stuck with our heads up in the clouds and, we value our own private time, we're a tad oblivious and we don't wanna be intrusive. That can feel like we don't care. Nothing could be further from the truth though. Ask. You'll find that an ENFP is rarely too busy not to help you, but you do have to ask. As we tend to be very easy-going and change our plans on the go, it's rarely an inconvenience to help out a friend in need. It is only if I see someone is truly overwhelmed with emotion that I'll prod them myself, to see if I can help.
    Rings true. He's caught up in his own world until you knock him into your own reality... and unfortunately, he'll try to make it about himself.

    Tendencies:

    1) Chaos, chaos, chaos. My god, do we live in a world of chaos. Plz don't ask me where my phone is, or my keys, though I will find things that I don't use that often easily in my mess. And there's no way I have the attention span to actually make a system and stick to it
    True, and the difference is that I think about finding things in a different way than he does, and this can cause issues.

    [QUOTE] 2) Flakiness. Wherever the mood takes me, is where I go, making it hard to plan *anything* or not feel forced when I do agree to something when later I don't feel like it anymore

    3) Indecisiveness/procrastination Too many damned options and all of the appealing, or worse..all of them not good enough! What's an ENFP to do except for wait, procrastinate and hope it another option presents itself![quote]

    Those are the same problem in my estimation, and a big source of the issues with me - I've got the same problems, if they manifest differently, and so a lot of conflict can erupt.

    4) Self-absorbed. Living with my head in the clouds, I don't always see what's going on around me, sorry, and I so don't know how to turn that off! Plz, if you need my help, I'll gladly give it to you, just tap me on the shoulder to get me back to reality though
    See above.

    5) Drama Queen. Fi can feel sooooo f*cking intense, it burns. The pain can be overwhelming. Unloading on others however...not very nice, however hard it can be to contain yourself. Learning social rules and having a close friend who understands you is a definite must.
    True, but the problem's mine in this regard - I'm not good at dealing with the "Fi emo dump" (thanks, O) at all. It makes me just want to start creating solutions, and while this can help, because it's a more "masculine" style, the type of connection I can feel he wants just isn't going to manifest itself (no homo (lulz)). This goes back to the whole "finding other friends" thing.

    6) Maintaining a network. My god, do I suck at that and does it drain me. But it is vital, if you care for your friends. I do my best to be there for my friends, but I warn them all in advance that if I ignore them, it's not on purpose and they just have to whack me harder over the head, coz I can be sometimes very hard to reach due to my obsession with new shiny and self-reflecting.
    Can't say for certain, because I live thousands of miles away now, but I wouldn't be surprised.

    My own specific issues:

    1) I really really hate what I perceive to be emotional guilttripping ( I grew up in a house of Fe-people, not all equally healthy). It makes me rebel beyond all reason. If you ask me to do something for you genuinly, I'll jump through every hoop to make it so, if I know it to be important to you. Whine that I haven't done it yet, while you didn't even ask, and I'll bend over backwards and cut my own throat before I give you what you want. I *am* working on this
    I remember a few months back when we talked about the "Fi-nudge" and how it hit me the wrong way. I'm now beginning to realize that this is the "Fe-nudge", and why it feels manipulative to you. In reality, this is often simply done to gently remind a person to think about someone other than themselves, and act accordingly. It doesn't feel manipulative, because the intended response to it is to go through a thought process of one's own that would inevitably lead to the conclusion that the "nudger" was trying to impart. If any negative reaction occurs, it's the frustration (in Freudian terms) of the id being smacked down by the superego - you know it's right, but you're mad that a.) you let yourself slip and get selfish and b.) that you don't get to satisfy that desire. You don't feel manipulated, though, because the other person's right, and was simply reminding you to think the whole thing through.

    However, if you're not prone to go through that thought process (you could see this as the Fe-Ti bridge), the only thing this would appeal to is the nature of one's relationship with that person, and the fear of the deterioration of that relationship. The use of fear to coerce is the very definition of manipulation, so I understand why you could see it that way.

    2) I hate bureaucracy and housework with a vengeance. It is mindboggling boring, always comes back, you're never done with it and it doesn't gain me any satisfaction at all, not to mention it feels like something you get forced into again (see 1)). These days, I've found that if I need to mull things over, I just get started on a simple task that needs doing as well, that way I don't feel pressured for that task and I can put my mind to work on something else.
    Same here. This might not be a type-specific thing.

    3) I *suck* at finding things. Like, seriously suck at it. I have my INTJ find it all for me, because, even if I bother, I'll go over a spot 4 times and still not find the item I need.
    My friend does as well, and knows it. He got very upset when we were looking for something in my house, and I searched through a bucket that he had already gone through - not because I didn't think he couldn't search competently, but because it would help trigger the thought pattern that would remind me where I put it. Didn't matter - he thought I was trying to be demeaning.

    4) I love freedom but leadership can be draining on me. I rather be the 'right hand', as constantly having to think ahead, plan and direct people can be quite daunting.
    This one too - he's far less comfortable with delegation as I am.


    Ok..I'm sure there's more, but I'll go hide under a rock for a while while this storm already starts up
    Good thoughts. The one thing I'd add - a lot of the problems I have with him involve the flexing of the Te-muscle, so to speak. For example, we were looking over musical modes. I tried to explain to him that I need to understand patterns in a highly visual way to grasp something fully. He thought "I was just making it more difficult than it has to be." Well, yes and no - it would be for him, but for me, I wasn't going to understand what you were presenting to me until something "clicked" in my head, and the only way that was going to happen was visualization of some sort. Because he was so excited about the subject, he wanted to share it in the way that he learned it (the Fi-Te bridge?). However, it wasn't going to work that way for me... but as a result, he interpreted this as a personal attack and me being stubborn.

    Meanwhile, his cousin (who he was traveling with) had to endure all of this crap. I felt bad for him, because I was trying to show them a good time while in town, but became increasingly worn out from all the mess.

    Thanks for the topic, S.

  9. #19
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I notice a tendency for some ENFPs to speak first without giving much thought of what they're saying; which can often have the effect of creating a huge mess if it's misunderstood by the other person or hits a nerve. For me, when I say something, I've already given some thought as to what I'm saying.
    totally yep...happens all the time
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  10. #20
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    My issues with ENFPs, and they seem quite common..

    Jumping to conclusions and reacting to them before all the facts are known.

    Anyone seen that Video that was posted a few days ago about the guy who went to Europe for 2 weeks and His girlfriend seemed oblivious to the fact he was leaving and spent the next 2 weeks reacting rather poorly?

    That is an extreme case of what I mean.

    And...

    They seem to be very good at the labeling game. Like what I mean is. If I say am against the idea of a gay pride parade, I am not asked why or to explain myself.. Nope.. I am homophobic.
    If I'm stressed, depressed or frustrated I'm very bad at jumping to conclusions and the labeling game. Drives my husband crazy, but I'm making progress.
    http://bohemianextrovert.wordpress.com/
    Please excuse the long drawn out ramble above.
    I have to hear what I've said before I know what I think.

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