User Tag List

First 917181920212969 Last

Results 181 to 190 of 726

  1. #181
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp
    Like marmalade.sunrise I embarrass people who have very "mean" outlooks: weak people are stupid, certain people "deserve" certain misfortunes. Generally, those who perpetuate ignorance. If dropping trou on them embarrasses them so be it.
    hah yes ma'am

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    It's hard to filter out the questions from all the other thoughts you provoke while writing such a long reply. It boggles the mind and it leaves me confused as to what i coherently wanna reply to. Best way to ask? Just ask straight out, that way I will only have one thought at once, or at least the thoughts you provoke will all have something to do with that question
    lol i totallyyy agree with this, my (Fe dom) mom used to describe it as "selective listening"... it's not really intentional, there are just certain things that pop out as more significant or things the question reminds you of that seem very important to talk about. i'd like to be able to answer the question from every angle, but there's not really time for that, so i choose the response that seems most important to me, even if it's not quite on topic. i guess it's a bit self-centered, but the intention is connecting at a deep level of significance.

  2. #182
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Finishing things.

    Went to Massage therapy school, didn't get my certificate.

    Went to uni, accrued over 150 units, have yet to get my BA or BS

    Had at least four different majors.

    I never finish anything.

    :sad:
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #183
    Senior Member Vamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    589

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post

    Went to Massage therapy school, didn't get my certificate.
    OMG! So did I!

    The last thing my admissions counselor said to me is, "That's crazy, that's like buying a new car and not driving it" which I had also done earlier in the year.
    But seriously, prior to that I was enrolled in a 4 year and dropped out. I'm not starting anymore education until I get my life together. And figure out how to finish things.
    George Bernard Shaw in cartoon form.

  4. #184
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    This has been an interesting exercise. I need to get much better at making Te style questions. That's important for other writing I am doing anyway. Any ideas at how a non-Te user can learn to develop that skill? Ni-Ti becomes really bad when I'm writing essays too. Ni rabbit trails and Ti doesn't want to leave anything out and has to find the perfect structure to accommodate it all. Then Ni comes up with more information that hadn't been considered and the whole thing just seems too big to do properly.
    I was able to help an INFJ friend/workmate with this a few years back. I'll focus on the essay writing. The same reasoning applies to questions and interpersonal interactions.

    I'll assume that you understand the Fe style of writing already: you make a sequence of arguments, but the arguments are designed around principles of fairness, of what is right and wrong, with an eye toward persuading your listener to adopt a particular perspective on an issue.

    The Te style, as I described to my friend, is "fact fact fact fact fact". If it's about how you feel, it's not a fact. If it's about how someone else feels, it's not a fact. If it's your opinion on a matter, it's not a fact. If it's a complaint, it's not a fact.

    You probably have one particular message you want to send. You could probably say that message in a single sentence, but a single sentence isn't persuasive enough.

    Write out that sentence.

    You need to add more sentences in order to make your case convincing. The Te way of doing this is by demonstrating that the facts on the ground prove your case. In general, you can do this by starting with "the way things are now", and describe how things are working currently. Then you can describe the problems with how things work. Then you describe how solve those problems, in a step-by-step kind of way.

    So use 2-3 sentences to describe the current situation. Use another 2-3 to identify problems to be solved. If there are really 3 dozen problems, just cover 2-3 of the BIG ones. The other problems can wait. Finally, spend most of your time explaining how to solve the problems. I usually provide 3 to 5 solutions, ranging from trivially easy "i.e., it's not a bug, it's a feature!", to very complex and expensive "redesign our over process." The middle-tier solutions are the "real" ones, where we focus on particular things to change that would solve the problem. Each "solution" should have at least a qualitative "cost/benefit" analysis, making it clear what the trade-offs are.

    I fully understand the Ti need for one's logic to be "complete," where Ni sees all these possibilities, and Ti keeps on delving deeper and deeper into the logic, finding flaws and correcting nitpicks, thus leaving you stuck even before you begin writing. That's why I limit the sentences, above. If you are spending too much time describing the problem, you are not being complete: you are being pedantic. It's OK to leave out lots of "important details", because if you're really doing "Te-style", you're having a conversation where others will ask for more detail if they need it - you're writing a communication intended to describe/argue/persuade, and not a reference manual.

    Finally, check your arguments for subjectivity and logical fallacies. Usually, when I'm in a debate with an Fe-style person, the initial part starts off very reasonably, and we both understand each other. But after a period of time, it becomes clear that the Fe person is using very different assumptions and arguments than I am, when dealing with the matters upon which we disagree. For the most part, I am puzzled until I realize that they aren't using logic to persuade me, but rather fallacies such as argument by authority, loaded questions, post hoc ergo propter hoc, innuendo, straw man arguments, and so on.

    [Please note that I'm not implying that Fe reasoning is illogical or lacks merit. Actually all reasoning is illogical - logic is merely a tool that is useful to evaluate certain kinds of statements.]

  5. #185
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    10,130

    Default

    Excellent! This is very helpful.

  6. #186
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    The most precious gift we can offer others is our presence.
    When mindfulness embraces those we love, they will bloom like flowers.
    ” - Thich Nhat Hanh

    I think it's interesting that some of the ENFPs on this thread have expressed that they just can't scale walls of text. I've seen other ENFPs comment on other threads that they usually read only the first sentence of a post before responding to it.

    I assume that most people know that ENFPs and ENTPs are notorious for being easily distracted… in fact, several of my ENFP and ENTP friends are on medicine for Adult ADD. But what’s really interesting to me is how ENFPs/ENTPs self-regulate the amount of information they take in. I think that Ne Doms (i.e., ENFPs and ENTPs) have a harder time shutting off outside distractions than most other types… which means they are prone to throttle information… like skipping over walls of text that might demand their consideration.

    This is one of the reasons I need alone time on a regular basis. It’s like I can’t shut off my Ne which is, in conjunction with my Fi, constantly reading the emotional tenor of the people around me. And sometimes I can’t bear this constant stream of information. The only way I seem to be able to stop it, is to be alone.

    I first became aware of the benefits of throttling incoming information when I was in graduate school. I and my cohorts were assigned as many as 10-15 books per week. This was in addition to the academic journals in our field we had to scrutinize. Such a reading schedule was nearly impossible to keep up with, regardless of personality type.

    I, like my classmates, was overwhelmed by the workload. I was a full-time Ph.D. student, a part-time graduate teaching assistant, a freelance writer (to supplement my income), and a wife with typical spousal responsibilities. To survive, I had to learn some real-politick-grad-student survival skills, which included being able to skim a book, quickly determine its salient points, and then speak thoughtfully and articulately on these in graduate seminar.

    I was brilliant at this. Really. It played to all my ENFP skills. In fact, my skills became so renowned that my fellow graduate students started a betting pool on whether or not I would get publicly praised by my more curmudgeonly professors for books I hadn’t read. I enjoyed the attention immensely. And, for the first time I became aware of (and started to formally cultivate) my gift of the gab.

    I was surprised to find that I could speak more articulately if I hadn’t read the assigned reading material thoroughly. < I ask you to re-read this statement because I think this is the heart of the matter.

    In other words, it was because I hadn’t read the assignment in its entirety, I was able to better pontificate on the salient points. By skimming the reading, I prevented myself from being distracted by all the intellectual permutations that I could see so easily with my Ne. These endless possibilities were overwhelming… and the idea of having to sort all this extra information derived from a more thorough treatment of the reading was daunting.

    Grad school was long ago, but I still throttle incoming information by a variety of methods. For example, I will take a few days off to reflect before posting to a thread on this very forum. Or, I might skim a thread, at first skipping walls of text, until I’m able to come back to the thread when my Ne isn’t overly stimulated. And, when my Ne is overstimulated and I’m under stress, I still rely on my ability to speak and write well. This is why it’s sometimes way easier for me to post something on this thread, than it is for me to read it carefully and thoroughly.

    So I think the moral of the story here is that Ne Doms sometimes have to throttle their information intake as a means of self-preservation. And that it is sometimes easier for them to express themselves than to listen carefully. And, also that it is easy for an Ne Dom to rely too much on these crutches to navigate their worlds.

    This is why I’ve worked very hard to not overly rely on my bull sh*tting abilities, in order to be able to skate by without reading the entire book cover-to-cover. And why I consciously try avoid just skimming things for the salient points, in lieu of thoughtful reading and thorough comprehension. It’s a struggle everyday. And, I don’t always succeed. But when I do, I'm a better person for it.*




    *One of the things that has really helped me is practicing Mindfulness meditation. If you don't know what mindfulness is, I recommend you Google the term. Here's a quick summary I found on the Web.

    Wow. You explained it perfectly! Except for the circumstances I can relate to everything word for word. I've never been able to express it as well as you did. Great insight. Thanks.
    http://bohemianextrovert.wordpress.com/
    Please excuse the long drawn out ramble above.
    I have to hear what I've said before I know what I think.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  7. #187
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yeah and it can go both ways. People often don't take us seriously enough - even if we can prove ourselves to be quite "book smart" - because of our basic nature and ways of expressing ourselves.

    On the other hand, I also find that some people take my game playing or theatrics TOO seriously, as well - it's like really? REALLY?

    So it's a matter of not being taken seriously when I am being thoughtful, or being taken too seriously when I'm just fucking around.

    Oh I completely relate to this.
    http://bohemianextrovert.wordpress.com/
    Please excuse the long drawn out ramble above.
    I have to hear what I've said before I know what I think.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  8. #188
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Socionics
    ENFp
    Posts
    312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I wonder if that's why some people on this board have said they see Fe in me...I do tend to score pretty high on Fe on functions tests, sometimes equally or higher than Fi, even though I'm clearly Fi ... but I will do the public humiliation thing to someone who I think is just an unbelievable asshole...I'm most bothered by narcissists, people who say things like they are better than other people, that weak people deserve to die, or people who are just openly nasty and self-centered...occasionally though I will go for the throats of people who have complete logic fail, but that's rare, and generally only in subjects I'm strongly interested in. Which seems to point to Fi not Fe, because I would think that Fe would only do this in the case of things that are offensive to the entire group, not just my own personal interests. I am sometimes thinking of other people, though...sometimes I have thoughts like, "If I don't call this person on their bullshit, who will? They can't just go around thinking this is OK."

    I think I just have serious Te and Si development for an ENFP, maybe because I'm older, I don't know.
    No I completely relate to this. I can definitely do this if I'm dealing with people like you described. Especially if I get around a nasty ENTP or ISTJ. I won't be able to keep my mouth shut. I will have to call them on their ignorant bullshit. I don't like to humiliate others unless they are the kind that enjoys humiliating others for sport. Then I feel it necessary to put them in their place whether it's for someone else's benefit or my own(sometimes).
    http://bohemianextrovert.wordpress.com/
    Please excuse the long drawn out ramble above.
    I have to hear what I've said before I know what I think.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  9. #189
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4sop
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    1,505

    Default

    From this thread and the INFP thread, does anyone notice distinct differences between the XNFPs? I can distinctly see the difference between the XNFJs but not so these two and I have been wondering for a while. I see a lot of similarities.

    Possible distinct difference:
    ENFPs are quicker to verbalize their emotions to others, even strangers.

  10. #190
    Senior Member Vamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Posts
    589

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    From this thread and the INFP thread, does anyone notice distinct differences between the XNFPs? I can distinctly see the difference between the XNFJs but not so these two and I have been wondering for a while. I see a lot of similarities.

    Possible distinct difference:
    ENFPs are quicker to verbalize their emotions to others, even strangers.
    I'm not really seeing any big differences. One of the things that stood out to me in the INFP thread was the thing Fidelia brought up about "cocooning" when one needs to sort things out. I'm really prone to that. So much so that people wouldn't type me as E.

    Maybe the only differences would be the amount of forwardness. I guess a little bit of E goes a long way in establishing boundaries and other things right off the bat and clearing up social ambiguity.
    George Bernard Shaw in cartoon form.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • :bye:
  • :)
  • :hi:
  • :happy2:
  • :smile:
  • :wubbie:
  • :D
  • :hug:
  • :wink:
  • ;)
  • :newwink:
  • :(
  • :cry:
  • :doh:
  • :mad:
  • :dry:
  • :shrug:
  • :blush:
  • :mellow:
  • :unsure:

Similar Threads

  1. [INFP] Common INFP Issues
    By Seymour in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 393
    Last Post: 07-14-2017, 10:12 PM
  2. [INTJ] Common INTJ Issues
    By highlander in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 317
    Last Post: 07-11-2017, 09:59 PM
  3. [INFJ] Common INFJ issues
    By fidelia in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 683
    Last Post: 06-30-2017, 08:59 AM
  4. [ENFJ] Common ENFJ Issues
    By Domino in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 208
    Last Post: 06-15-2017, 10:25 PM
  5. [ISFP] Common ISFP Issues
    By highlander in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 101
    Last Post: 02-28-2017, 10:56 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO