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  1. #171
    Senior Member Vamp's Avatar
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    I try not to let not being taken seriously (as a girl, person, whatever else) bother me anymore. I'm working on using it to some sort of advantage (high interest in confident schemes). This is a tie-in to a post I made over in the Graveyard (I'm an attention whore).
    George Bernard Shaw in cartoon form.

  2. #172
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    The funny thing is though is that ENFPs can engage in this same controlling - er, confrontational, in our case - behavior that is often attributed to Fe though...just in a different way...we'll see a particular individual doing something we believe strongly with Fi/Te NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED AND DEALT WITH and won't let it go (I think this is especially true of us with a great deal of Te, or with a strong ISTJ shadow), and Fe users will see it as unnecessary disruption of social harmony.

    It's kind of ironic that ENFPs and Fe types can both seek to reign in other people for different reasons. Can I get other ENFPs to admit to doing this?
    no

    actually i hate hate hate when people embarrass other people in public. that is just absolutely unacceptable to me (unless said embarrassed person is a complete jackass).

    usually i'll just ignore it and vent it later but sometimes i feel like someone has crossed the line. and then... haha well. kaboom goes the enfp volcano

    and then i usually regret it later on an Fe basis but not Fi. good thing Fi is stronger lol

  3. #173
    Senior Member Vamp's Avatar
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    I don't intend to embarrass people but judging from how they react I do embarrass them. Oops. Then I feel bad cause I've been that person before. Unless they are someone who I just don't get on with at all.

    But I can rarely summon that ability when someone is teasing me/being mean.
    George Bernard Shaw in cartoon form.

  4. #174
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    I wonder if that's why some people on this board have said they see Fe in me...I do tend to score pretty high on Fe on functions tests, sometimes equally or higher than Fi, even though I'm clearly Fi ... but I will do the public humiliation thing to someone who I think is just an unbelievable asshole...I'm most bothered by narcissists, people who say things like they are better than other people, that weak people deserve to die, or people who are just openly nasty and self-centered...occasionally though I will go for the throats of people who have complete logic fail, but that's rare, and generally only in subjects I'm strongly interested in. Which seems to point to Fi not Fe, because I would think that Fe would only do this in the case of things that are offensive to the entire group, not just my own personal interests. I am sometimes thinking of other people, though...sometimes I have thoughts like, "If I don't call this person on their bullshit, who will? They can't just go around thinking this is OK."

    I think I just have serious Te and Si development for an ENFP, maybe because I'm older, I don't know.

  5. #175
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I don't think Fe users would even do that about someone who is causing trouble to the entire group, unless they were quite sure that everyone else in the group concurred and supported that action. They would more likely withdraw or else talk privately.

  6. #176
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    I don't intend to embarrass people but judging from how they react I do embarrass them. Oops. Then I feel bad cause I've been that person before. Unless they are someone who I just don't get on with at all.

    But I can rarely summon that ability when someone is teasing me/being mean.
    ohh yeah i can understand how that would happen. that, i don't have a problem with, it's a genuine mistake.

    my quintessential life example is a nitpicky overbearing ESxJ conference attendee who humiliated the newly-hired ISFJ conference coordinator as she was just beginning what would lead into a rather brilliant presentation - all over a very minor spelling mistake in one of several dozen quotes the ISFJ had just hand-copied onto the board. i just didn't understand what in hell made her think that pointing out this itty bitty flaw in front of 300 of her peers would accomplish. though perhaps i am mistaken, and she just didn't think, or maybe she thought it was helping restore things to the way they should be, so they could get on with the conference properly. and her Fe just failed.

    haha anyway, seriously, isn't it unfortunate that we can't always pull off these reactions when they would be most useful/helpful? sometimes i really want to speak up and just don't have the balls, and then regret it terribly. or do speak up and go overboard and regret that. oh to find the happy medium

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I don't think Fe users would even do that about someone who is causing trouble to the entire group, unless they were quite sure that everyone else in the group concurred and supported that action. They would more likely withdraw or else talk privately.
    SimulatedWorld told me that people with Fe will do public humiliation, and it has been my experience that ExFJs are far more likely openly confront people than IxFJs. In fact, if I think of high school group peer pressure, I would think that immature Fe a la ExFJ (I'm not saying my Fe is mature, seeing as that it's not one of my main functions) actually calls people out, laughs at them etc. Adolescent or childish Fe actually seems quite nasty. Apparently narcissists and sociopaths can also use Fe to manipulate other people.

    So....talking to people privately is mature and healthy Fe I think, or even how introverted Fe users do it. IxFJs don't want to "make a scene" which is why they are so proficient at getting me to agree with them, because it's less like "do as I say" and more like "do as I do."

    I'm just speculating, of course. I readily assume that when someone violates one of my core Fi values I have no compunction about going Te on their ass. I'm certainly not saying I'm 100% sure this is Fe, but there are people on this site who seem to believe I'm ExFJ so I'm just theorizing as to why that might be.

  8. #178
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's probably true. I'm not nearly as familiar with the SJ varieties of Fe. I know ENTPs are also more likely to do whatever they do in public, especially when they are younger, so that would make sense.

  9. #179
    Senior Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    ohh yeah i can understand how that would happen. that, i don't have a problem with, it's a genuine mistake.

    my quintessential life example is a nitpicky overbearing ESxJ conference attendee who humiliated the newly-hired ISFJ conference coordinator as she was just beginning what would lead into a rather brilliant presentation - all over a very minor spelling mistake in one of several dozen quotes the ISFJ had just hand-copied onto the board. i just didn't understand what in hell made her think that pointing out this itty bitty flaw in front of 300 of her peers would accomplish. though perhaps i am mistaken, and she just didn't think, or maybe she thought it was helping restore things to the way they should be, so they could get on with the conference properly. and her Fe just failed.

    haha anyway, seriously, isn't it unfortunate that we can't always pull off these reactions when they would be most useful/helpful? sometimes i really want to speak up and just don't have the balls, and then regret it terribly. or do speak up and go overboard and regret that. oh to find the happy medium
    Oh, that would bother me, too. That's a really crappy thing to do.

    Like marmalade.sunrise I embarrass people who have very "mean" outlooks: weak people are stupid, certain people "deserve" certain misfortunes. Generally, those who perpetuate ignorance. If dropping trou on them embarrasses them so be it. I just can't turn the other cheek when I hear that kind of logic.
    George Bernard Shaw in cartoon form.

  10. #180
    A snowstorm is coming... Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    That's interesting to know. So state of mind and writing style both impact your ability to persevere through a chunk of writing?

    Here's another question (not meant confrontationally) - Why do ENFPs not answer questions directly? I've asked 5 or 6 here and gotten almost no response. What response there was was was an expression of personal experience. Which is informative, but it interests me that the processing seems to be different. If I'm asked a question, I end up writing a book on it after considering it from all the angles possible.

    It's hard
    It's hard to filter out the questions from all the other thoughts you provoke while writing such a long reply. It boggles the mind and it leaves me confused as to what i coherently wanna reply to. Best way to ask? Just ask straight out, that way I will only have one thought at once, or at least the thoughts you provoke will all have something to do with that question


    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    None of the questions make much sense without any background. That's why the long posts.
    You're best off giving the backgroudn to each question, instead of writing a background with four different type questions in. I know that your mind probably weaves them all together in a tight little Ni-package, but it makes our mind just go all over the place

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I don't think I'd perceive it so much as a waste of time. However, I would wonder probably why the person didn't answer the question directly. I mean, I would probably use the story, but I'd try to make the point as well so that it didn't get obscured. I realize this isn't how everyone works though. I think it's maybe similar to why I feel the need to explain to you all my thought processes (Ti) when you probably would prefer the basic facts (Te). All that other stuff (which makes up the wall of text) seems to obscure my point. My guess is that because Fi is an introverted function, it does the the same thing, but with experiences and feelings. What do you guys think?

    One of my main concerns is that in telling the story, often the ENFP never gets back to the issue at hand (which ironically is how to get back to the issue at hand!).

    Going into an ENFP thread though, I don't expect you to change your most natural method of communication. This is your space, and so it makes sense that you'd respond in the way that is comfortable for you. I have learned a lot so far even in the ways that you tend to process information and respond to it. A thread like the INFJ one isn't going to happen in the same way here because the people hosting are going to respond in ENFP ways, not INFJ ways, and that's okay.

    One of the reasons that I don't naturally like just doing the bold/bullet points is that I'm afraid someone WILL only read them and not get the context. Maybe us wanting the direct answer is the equivalent of wanting the highlights but getting bogged down in the details.
    Actually, it was only here that I learned to go: 'So how do you feel about this stuff?' after I told a story, and return the spotlight. I knew that I came off as self-absorbed and a blabbermouth with people, but I had no clue what I did wrong, as I was always willing to share the spotlight. It was only here that I understood that Fe-users need permission to do so. So this is something that Fi-users should pick up on. Realize you've told a story, don't start another one (coz our Ne just goes on an association-bender and keeps telling stories otherwise!) and make a point to 'return the spotlight' to the original storyteller.

    The thing is that I relate through sharing a similar story to show you you're not alone, and that I do understand somewhat what you're going through. However, for me it's so natural to do that, that I expected others to do the same. So I'd share and then there'd be a silence. Uhmmm. Ok...*starts feeling uncomfortable, mind racing* ohhh, here's another story! Or, I'd get so excited that my Ne overheats and goes on a story-high.

    If you truly wanna leave them to their own communication style, just say something like: 'I know! I had that happen to me: *insert story* or go: 'Exactly! That's what I was thinking when....*insert rest of story you wanted to say before you got interrupted by our story*

    It should get them to shut up, though they might do something to you like that after two sentences again. If they do..its coz they're on a syncing-up buzz Feel free to do exactly the same again and interject your own story. It feels like you're geting closer to us at that point, which is fun. AT some point all the interjections become a bother and one of the two partners in the conversation will relax to let the other finish the story, or we'll just end up not understanding one another and being in our own headspace while giggling simultaneously (giggling teenagers, anyone? )

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    So for you, connecting would require that both of you exchange your personal experiences first and foremost? I think that would be true for me, but it would probably come in a different sequence.
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post

    No, it's not that look. I wouldn't insult you with that sweetie! It's the look that says, and mostly in a work (or occasionally a social) environment, "danger, stop ... you are going down a path and no one is following you and they're starting to judge you and not even listen to you or take you seriously!" Sometimes I offer my "Fi warning look" but I can't stop you! LOL, not that it would matter I guess, I just wonder why I feel like you see it and I think you understand it, but don't pay attention.
    Lol, I'm sorry, I'm paranoid of that look

    I think that happens when someone is on a Fi-rampage, when they consider their values to have been stepped on. Nothing at that point can stop em as it's too damned important to them. They've had their buttons pushed. Or, they're overenthused by Ne and cannot contain the energy and therefore are no longer able to abort mission
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